CEL - P219A

[Ctgriffi]

Hello, I’m new on the forum and always appreciate having a venue like this to ask specific questions about a vehicle I own. I’m a DIYer and avid shade-tree mechanic, down in southern Missouri. 

 

My question: We’ve got a ‘13 C-max hybrid with 120K. Well-maintained and has been in the family from the get-go. Twice recently, after highway driving, this same check engine light has appeared: P219A (incorrect air/fuel ratio in one engine bank). I’ve got a few theories, but I’d like to hear some more likely causes. Who’s come across this one and what was the fix? 

 

Thanks!

[plus 3 golfer]

Unfortunately, your scanner is not manufacturer specific.  If you really want to diagnose / trouble shoot your C-Max, I recommend spending $25 for a Service Manual on Ebay, the FORScan App ($6, IRRC) and an ELM327 (you may already have this) to connect your a smartphone.

 

Here's a snip of the code.  Also, you might want to read the attachment on how the monitor works that sets the code starting at page 63. OBDSM1503_HEV.pdf

 

Edited February 16, 2020 by Plus 3 Golfer

[Ctgriffi]

21 hours ago, Plus 3 Golfer said:

Unfortunately, your scanner is not manufacturer specific.  If you really want to diagnose / trouble shoot your C-Max, I recommend spending $25 for a Service Manual on Ebay, the FORScan App ($6, IRRC) and an ELM327 (you may already have this) to connect your a smartphone.

 

Here's a snip of the code.  Also, you might want to read the attachment on how the monitor works that sets the code starting at page 63. OBDSM1503_HEV.pdf

 

 

 

Appreciate that info and the attachment you posted. Lots to read and study in there (and sounds like a scanner SW upgrade will be helpful). 

 

Overall, I’m not coming across a great deal of repair info out there for these cars, not like many cars I’ve owned in the past anyway. Maybe folks just go the dealer route, 99% of the time, with the C-Max? Interesting. 

 

AllDataDIY seems to have a good deal on a 5-year subscription to repair info for this vehicle, so I might go that route.

 

Anybody else care to weigh-in on the P219A dtc?

[Bill-N]

Try the simplest (and cheapest) first:  injector cleaner.

 

 

Cheers.

[homestead]

1 hour ago, Bill-N said:

Try the simplest (and cheapest) first:  injector cleaner.

 

 

Cheers.

 

+1

[plus 3 golfer]

3 hours ago, Bill-N said:

Try the simplest (and cheapest) first:  injector cleaner.

 

 

Cheers.

+ 2 

I virtually always buy TopTier gas but still dump two bottles of Techron in each year in our vehicles.  Costco from time to time has Techron in their stores.

[plus 3 golfer]

22 hours ago, Ctgriffi said:

 

 

Appreciate that info and the attachment you posted. Lots to read and study in there (and sounds like a scanner SW upgrade will be helpful). 

 

Overall, I’m not coming across a great deal of repair info out there for these cars, not like many cars I’ve owned in the past anyway. Maybe folks just go the dealer route, 99% of the time, with the C-Max? Interesting. 

 

AllDataDIY seems to have a good deal on a 5-year subscription to repair info for this vehicle, so I might go that route.

 

Anybody else care to weigh-in on the P219A dtc?

With the Ford DVD (at least the one I purchased several years ago), it includes all MY 2012, 2013, and 2014 Ford and Lincoln vehicles. 

 

One other point on P219A,  check the torque on your spark plugs.  I changed my plugs at about 104k (70k+ ICE miles) and found one plugs was certainly not torqued to spec.  You could see on the threads that gases were traveling up the threads and "baked" on the bottom of the insulator.  I believe I could have removed the one plug with virtually no torque arm on the socket.  The other three didn't seem tight either.  I never had any CELs.  But I now have 124k miles on and I believe my FE went up slightly (1/2 mpg minimum and maybe a full mpg). 

 

Since the code is measuring imbalance of A/F of the cylinders, perhaps a loose plug in one cylinder could trigger this.

 

[Ctgriffi]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I'll start by running some Techron through and making sure the plugs are torqued appropriately. It the code continues, I'll probably start looking at O2 sensors (upstream/downstream) as well as the fuel injectors themselves.

[bigqueue]

On 2/20/2020 at 5:33 PM, Ctgriffi said:

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I'll start by running some Techron through and making sure the plugs are torqued appropriately. It the code continues, I'll probably start looking at O2 sensors (upstream/downstream) as well as the fuel injectors themselves.

 

I know this isn't something anyone asked for, but I am a Seafoam used and knew nothing about Techron.....so I searched and found an interesting YOURTUBE video that I thought others might find interesting too:
 

 

[Ctgriffi]

UPDATE: we’ve run 2 bottles of Techron through over the last few weeks. Code cleared itself at one point but CEL came on again two days ago: P219A again, but P0304 now, too. 

 

P0304 - engine misfire on cylinder 4

 

Tonight I’m going to start on a tune up, also testing coil packs, especially on Cyl. 4. 

 

(P.S. This is my thread and I’ve checked “Notify me of replies...” but still never get any notice when a new post is made here. ???)

[C-MaxA2]

I had that experience with Techron (worked but then the code came back a couple of weeks later) and my mechanic suggested I use Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant (an injector cleaner) and the CEL disappeared (3 years ago).  I put it in my Focus and C-Max now once or twice a year. Give it a try; not expensive. 

[plus 3 golfer]

P219A requires that that the following components / sensors shown below pass the monitors checks of those sensors / components. Then, when in closed loop operation if sensors are OK, this monitor runs one time per driving cycle. One thing you can do is switch, cylinder 4 plug and coil to another cylinder and see if P0304 shifts to another cylinder.

Sensors OK:

ECT, IAT, MAF, VSS, TP, ETC, FRP, DPFE EGR, VCT, VMV/EVMV, CVS, FTP,
CKP, CMP, ignition coils, injectors, no misfire DTCs, no system failures affecting
fuel, no EVAP gross leak failure, UEGO heaters OK, rear HO2S heaters OK, no
"lack of switching" malfunction, no "lack of movement" malfunction, no UEGO
circuit malfunction, no rear stream 2 HO2S circuit malfunction, no rear stream 2
HO2S functional DTCs, no rear stream 2 HO2S response rate malfunction.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Plus 3 Golfer

[Ctgriffi]

Coil packs all tested fine, plugs looked good, and injectors were all firing the same (based on stethoscope test). 
 

Ended up trying out the Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant, and it seems to have done the trick: no more CELs for a couple months now. Also, we’ve seen mpgs increase by a few 10ths, which has never happed in the past on this car (always a long, very slow decline). 
 

I intend to use fuel injection cleaner regularly in the future, now that I know this vehicle seems to definitely benefit from it. 

[C-MaxA2]

If you plan to use Lucas in the future I might suggest getting: 1 small bottle and 1 large container (to re-fill the small bottle) so you have the correct amount and a smaller bottle to handle with the C-Max refill port. It's almost like you need 3 hands. 

 

Odd that Lucas works well in the Focus and C-Max - must be a Ford thing.  It definitely works more 'permanently' than anything else for some reason. I ended up spending a lot of money ($850 total) replacing parts (at two different garages) and the Lucas stuff fixed the CEL once and for all. 

 

Here's my 'Lucas set up' in my garage.

 

 

[Ctgriffi]

The misfire saga continues... P219A code has not returned for many months and seems to have been solved. However, P0304 continues to pop up occasionally, despite repeated doses of the Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant. As a next step, since P0304 indicates a problem with cylinder 4, I pulled the fuel rail and replaced #4 injector (the one on the far right, when standing at the front of the vehicle, looking at the engine bay). Can anyone confirm that this is definitely the cylinder referenced in the P0304 code?

 

While I had the injectors out, I checked all of their resistance values and noticed that the injector on the far left (opposite end from the one I replaced) was slightly below the Ohm specification range. Would like to have replaced them all, since we've got about 120K miles on the vehicle and it's standard practice to do so, but I was only able to get my hands on one Motorcraft CM-5148 on short notice, and the vehicle was needed the following day.

• Car continues to drive great, with no apparent loss in power, and absolutely no loss in mileage.
• I've already checked the spark plugs (replaced at 100K dealer service) and torqued them correctly. 
• Also tested the coil pack resistances—all were within spec and very similar to one another.

So, in summary: replaced one injector last week, then did a few days of driving, and the P0304 code is back on. Suggestions and comments welcome... ?

Edited November 23, 2020 by Ctgriffi
clarification

[Ctgriffi]

Got a few more of those Motorcraft injectors and replaced the remaining 3 last week. Hopefully that will be the end of misfire CELs... so far, so good.

 

For those of you who are considering injector replacement: total cost for repair should run about $128.15 (4 OEM injectors + shipping from RockAuto.com).

 

Side-note: having had the big plastic intake assembly off of this thing multiple times, looking at the coils, plugs, and injectors, I've gotten pretty quick with the teardown/reinstall process, and it's really not a difficult job to replace the injectors. No special tools were needed. Fuel rail is right there on the front, with easy access, once you remove all the various connections and wire harnesses on top. Make sure to blow away any dust/dirt really carefully with compressed air, before removing the two retaining bolts and pulling the rail!

Edited August 29, 2022 by Ctgriffi
Adding cost info

[Ctgriffi]

Just some follow-up after 10 months and several thousand miles of driving: no CELs have ever appeared again and no sign of misfires. New injectors did the trick, 100%.