thegrayt1 Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) I am about to buy a super clean 1 owner Texas owned 2013 CMAX SEL with about 109k on the clock. It has been Ford serviced and the production date was late July 2013. Here are my questions Any major problems with these cars overall? I read somewhere that they had transmission issues? The car drove great and was always serviced but do not want to jump into a money pit. How long do these hybrid batteries last down in the south and in a garaged environment? Also what is the warranty on them thru Ford? I know there is normal degradation but the dealer said it was operating great at like 90% capacity. They just did the 100k service that included spark plugs, coolant flush and a few other things. Any other major services on the horizon? Brakes are original but feel awesome, how long do they last in general? Finally, I am getting it for $5800 and it is loaded with NAV and leather and just about everything. Is that a good deal? Look forward to some fast responses f possible. Edited February 19, 2020 by thegrayt1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, thegrayt1 said: I am about to buy a super clean 1 owner Texas owned 2013 CMAX SEL with about 109k on the clock. It has been Ford serviced and the production date was late July 2013. Here are my questions Any major problems with these cars overall? I read somewhere that they had transmission issues? The car drove great and was always serviced but do not want to jump into a money pit. How long do these hybrid batteries last down in the south and in a garaged environment? Also what is the warranty on them thru Ford? They just did the 100k service that included spark plugs, coolant flush and a few other things. Any other major services on the horizon? Brakes are original but feel awesome, how long do they last in general? Finally, I am getting it for $5800 and it is loaded with NAV and leather and just about everything. Is that a good deal? Look forward to some fast responses f possible. 1) No major problems except transmission - search for many recent posts. Some may have a 12V battery drain - search for posts. 2) All your warranties have expired. You should get well over 250 k miles out of HVB. HVB replacement is very rare. 3) Brake flush? 4) The rotors will rust (depending on your climate) before you'll wear pads / rotors out. Mine in AZ look like new with minimal pad wear - 125k miles. 5) Trade in value is exceptionally low for the C-Max in general. So, could your find one for less? - maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegrayt1 Posted February 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, Plus 3 Golfer said: 1) No major problems except transmission - search for many recent posts. Some may have a 12V battery drain - search for posts. 2) All your warranties have expired. You should get well over 250 k miles out of HVB. HVB replacement is very rare. 3) Brake flush? 4) The rotors will rust (depending on your climate) before you'll wear pads / rotors out. Mine in AZ look like new with minimal pad wear - 125k miles. 5) Trade in value is exceptionally low for the C-Max in general. So, could your find one for less? - maybe If the car were to have transmission or 12v drain problems would it not have showed up by now? The people I am buying it from seem very nice and very honest. I saw all the service records and they do everything on time. I just do not want to jump into any kind of money pit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) The transmission issue does not appear to be mileage related as they have failed early and later. However, Ford says that under "certain driving" conditions, the failure can occur. Only Ford knows under what conditions. Search under members stratosurfer and snowstorm as they have had recent failures both with excess of 100k miles. Obviously, the likelihood of a transmission failure increases with use and will ultimately fail. The 12V battery issue seems to plague some cars more than others. Ford has issued TSBs and a CSP to look for potential wiring issues several years ago which were causing most of the 12V issues at that time. I believe most of the issues now involve a module not going to "sleep" and remaining active thus draining the battery. Once drained and recharged, the problem goes away until the next time it happens. A common symptom is the radio locks up (APIM usually) and drains the battery sometimes overnight (depends on SOC of battery). The "fix" is to pull fuse 79 under the glove box as soon as the radio locks up and reinsert which resets modules. Unless the APIM (or other module), fails completely, it's generally not worth replacing a module as it may be a different module causing the issue associated with the radio. I've had my radio inoperable once (in over 7 years of ownership) in the last year and pulled fuse 79 to reset it. As member fbov has said: I hate to say it but the dead battery issue happens to everyone. I am now a "believer". My C-Max has been one of the best cars I've owned. I have never done anything but routine maintenance. If ones transmission should fail, one can likely get a used, later MY transmission (which may have been corrected for the issue) installed for around $3k or maybe less. Edited February 20, 2020 by Plus 3 Golfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbov Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 In my opinion, you're on the verge of it 5 hours ago, thegrayt1 said: ... I just do not want to jump into any kind of money pit. But then, I'm a weenie. I just traded in an early (10/2012) production C-Max because of the concerns over transmission reliability. That leads to the advice to only buy a pre-August 2015 C-Max if it's got a new tranny. We have many forum users who've gotten 100K+ on the replacement, so there's no concern for reliability when properly built. That's one reason I was willing to dive into another first production year car in the 2020 Escape Hybrid. The C-Max was wonderful in the 67K I drove it. The Escape is very similar, just bigger. have fun, Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigqueue Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, thegrayt1 said: I am about to buy a super clean 1 owner Texas owned 2013 CMAX SEL with about 109k on the clock. It has been Ford serviced and the production date was late July 2013. Here are my questions Any major problems with these cars overall? I read somewhere that they had transmission issues? The car drove great and was always serviced but do not want to jump into a money pit. How long do these hybrid batteries last down in the south and in a garaged environment? Also what is the warranty on them thru Ford? I know there is normal degradation but the dealer said it was operating great at like 90% capacity. They just did the 100k service that included spark plugs, coolant flush and a few other things. Any other major services on the horizon? Brakes are original but feel awesome, how long do they last in general? Finally, I am getting it for $5800 and it is loaded with NAV and leather and just about everything. Is that a good deal? Look forward to some fast responses f possible. I am a new owner of a 2016, so I am not the seasoned expert that many here are. But when I decided on a CMAX, I did do my research and that is where I discovered the issues with transmissions in the earlier cars. (Up until cars made in Aug 15, 2015 according to this Ford TSB: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10148717-9999.pdf ....in there you can read the actual description of what Ford describes the issue to be) I was actually looking at a 2013 and a 2016 with about the same mileage and finding out the issues with the transmission and the rate of failures turned me to buy the 2016. But I understand that the 2013 is a wonderful vehicle if you are willing to roll the dice on the transmission and then if it fails pay the $3000-$6000 to get it fixed. (Depending upon how involved you want to get to go find the transmission from a wreck and so forth) Here is a link to the many transmission discussions here: https://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/search/?q=Transmission Here is a link to a thread that suggests the failure rate might be as high as 75%: https://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/search/?q=Transmission This is a link to a government lab that did a long term reliability test on the 2013 CMAX and the results of their transmission issues: https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-button/2013-ford-c-max (This might be where the 75% failure rate estimate came from...I am not sure) --> 4 vehicles (identified by last 4 digits of their VINs): 2158 last date 3/24/2016 132k tranny 110k $3900 5138 " 9/27/2016 170k (no tranny replace) 5139 " 6/21/2016 144k tranny 90k $4400 8698 last date 3/16/2016 130k. tranny 115k $4k I am not posting this to scare you.....but I do think people should have a clear understanding of the possibilities. Some folks came into this who were mechanics, and they were not afraid of the possibility of a transmission replacement because they would do it themselves and I suppose had a back-up ride should it come on out of the blue. The CMAX is really a wonderful car.....I have only had mine about a month and I absolutely love it. I know this next link will be a little unrelated to your question, but I want to recommend some videos that Weber University made on the CMAX Tramsmissions.....not regarding the issues, but how they work and how advanced (and cool) they are. This guy does a lot of cool videos on Hybrid and PHEVs: I am an Engineer and maybe I just GEEK on stuff like that ? ) Keep asking questions.....getting opinions.....and keep everyone here apprised of your decision. -Quentin PS: The people here are wonderful and love to help / answer questions..... Edited February 20, 2020 by bigqueue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestevens Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) I have a 2013 SEL with an April 2012 build date. The only things I have put into this car are oil changes, tires and a new 12V battery after 7 years of service. I think service manager replaced the engine air filter once at 60K and I replace the cabin air filter myself about once a year. I've also had to install new headlight and turn signal bulbs (not really fun but doable with the right bits). I now have 103K mi .. I drive mostly around town with occasional highway driving - no transmission problems so far, never had 12V battery drain issue - I think SEs may be more prone to that then SEL for some reason. Next time the oil service minder comes up I'll probably take it in for the 100K mi service - I'm expecting to pay more for that one since it involves changing spark plugs, etc. Some of the folks here say not to bother with the plugs but I'll do it anyway. I've heard that down south is not kind to batteries - if you are comfortable then HVB is comfortable - so hopefully whoever had the car before wasn't stingy with the AC or always parking it in 100F sun. I average 40MPG with Goodyear Assurance Fuelmax tires inflated to 42PSI. Hybrids use low rolling resistance tires and most of them start out at 7/10 tread so bear that in mind - you may be buying tires more often - but I've been driving hybrids for 10 years now with a Prius before this and really, wouldn't buy any other type of car. They are quiet, powerful, efficient and up level trim since they have to justify the higher price tag. If you buy used the sticker shock is gone. I wouldn't buy a Prius V, has absolutely no power whereas C-MAX has plenty. I'm going to try to wait at least two more years before I consider next car because I think the market is shifting more toward hybrid and electric. The only thing that would make me get rid of CMAX is if the transmission or power steering were failing but so far it's good. I think some folks mentioned after 270K the power steering was going bad. I have the one with the panoramic roof and I love it here in PA, but if I was in Mississippi maybe not - it's sealed glass with a window shade below it. At the time the C-MAX debuted you couldn't get a pano roof in any other car for less than $40K and I paid $20K for CMAX.. Edited February 20, 2020 by jestevens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbov Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 8 hours ago, bigqueue said: I am a new owner of a 2016... ... who's been listening! Nice summary. The good news is there's really nothing else to worry about. Frank bigqueue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegrayt1 Posted February 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 Thanks for all of the insight guys I really appreciate it. I think I am going to test drive it one more time and focus completely on listening to the tranny. Should I drive it with the windows down and at what speeds? What should I be listening for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) When I drive my C-Max there is no whine whatsoever at any speed 5 mph to 85 mph (windows up or down) and I've been listening carefully from pre 100k miles to current mileage or about the last 3 years. According to many a slight whine is likely an indication of pending failure. Make sure you run in EV at higher speeds too (just in case). Edited February 20, 2020 by Plus 3 Golfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegrayt1 Posted February 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 I loved the car but all this talk is making me nervous. I will see if I can test drive again and just focus on the sound. What is the trick to keeping it in EV mode at higher speeds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 You will need the HVB charged above 1/2 way on the battery symbol and a level or preferred slightly downhill maybe mile stretch of road. Note the chevron symbols above and below the battery symbol which indicates whether the HVB is charging or discharging. To charge HVB, get up to a higher speed and then use regeneration by applying the brakes gradually to come to stop. a 1/4 mile downhill exit ramp works great. Once HVB has sufficient charge, accelerate briskly (you want to use ICE) up to higher speed say 55 -60 mph on level road (preferable slight downgrade) . Then back off the accelerator pedal slightly until the bottom chevron is pointing down meaning your in EV mode. Keep pedal at that position or you may have to continually back off to keep battery symbol showing discharging. You might be able to drive a mile or so at 55 mph in EV mode. Also, there is a screen labeled Empower in the left hand display window. It will show the engine on / off threshold level in kW as a outlined circle graph. EV will fill the outline in blue up to the kW it's operating at. So, if you watch the screen, you can control the amount of EV via the accelerator pedal. If the blue EV reaches the top of the "ICE on" or if the "ICE on" threshold drops to the blue because the HVB level is dropping, ICE will come on. Download a C-Max owner's manual for a more detailed explanation. This is the method I use, if I want EV only for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowStorm Posted February 20, 2020 Report Share Posted February 20, 2020 I described my noise here and here. Use Empower screen as +3 Golfer describes. If you do buy it, just make sure you are OK with the risk involved. It could check out perfect now and still fail later. I can;t prove it but I think something "fails" abruptly (like something shifts out of place on the transfer shaft) and then noise starts as parts rub against each other. I don't believe its a normal "wear out" type of process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestevens Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) My car has always "whined" on electric but that is the noise I would expect it to make using an electric motor drivetrain? A loud continuous noise would be something completely different? I've also had the ANC reverb issue that happens if you leave the windows down - the exhaust/transmission sounds a little crazy there but it's only temporary annoyance. Edited February 21, 2020 by jestevens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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