Dead battery roll call

[MikeB]

Actually, I've noticed that very few Energi's have reported dead batteries. I suspect that's because we tend to plug in overnight. While the car is charging, the high voltage relays are closed, but the DC/DC converter should also be on to keep the 12v systems working and the computer awake. So that should provide several hours of charging to the 12v battery in addition to juicing up the 300v one.

[salman]

 While the car is charging, the high voltage relays are closed, but the DC/DC converter should also be on to keep the 12v systems working and the computer awake. So that should provide several hours of charging to the 12v battery in addition to juicing up the 300v one.

 

I do not have an Energi.

 

How do you know that the converter is on while you are charging the LiOn battery? Isn't the car turned off?

 

I agree there seem to be fewer postings about Energis with dead 12 volts, but I think it is hard to read the data. There are some cases of dead Energis.

 

With  both the Energis and the non-plug-ins, we only know of the cases that have been posted and can only speculate about the overall rate of failure. This is one of the reasons why Ziggy's post is potentially important. GE bought 2000 Energis. Ziggy says he knows of 2 case of 12 volt failure. Now that means either 2 out of 2000 or, perhaps, 2 out of a smaller number if his universe of case knowledge is local rather than national. We all need more information.

 

And Ford is not giving it. I have asked Ford Customer Service to look into cases like Mbedits in Wilimington NC. Ford came back and told me that they knew about that case and that it was merely a matter of a part delay!!! I shot back that this was not accurate because 1) Ford could not diagnose the problem and hence could not identify what part needed changing, and 2) For would not buy back the car (or ask for it to be shipped back to Michigan) if it knew what part it needed. And in responses to this information I have received only silence as a response.

[MikeB]

How do you know that the converter is on while you are charging the LiOn battery? Isn't the car turned off?

"Off" isn't exactly binary when talking about an computerized electric vehicle. You certainly can't drive the car when it's charging, and the radio and climate systems aren't running, but the battery management system (BMS) absolutely must be running. So there's at least one 12v computer that is active while charging, maybe several. And if something is drawing 12v power, then the engineers must plan to either turn on the ICE or the DC/DC converter to power it, or they eventually get a drained 12v battery. Ok, yea, we do have a dead 12v battery here, but it's not happening every night to every Energi, so it's the exception not the rule. So while I'm not 100% certain that the converter is on, I think it's pretty likely. 

[salman]

MikeB

 

That's a good set of deductions you are making and I think you might be right about the converter being on while charging the LiOn. Certainly you are right that some part of the computer must be on to regulate charging of the LiON, and that would draw 12 volt power. So it would make sense that the converter would be re-charging the 12 volt to prevent depletion. i am hoping Ford used good sense in designing the car!

 

The 12 volt problems are obviously hitting a minority of the C Maxs of every flavor. From the postings it seems to hit more non-plug-ins, but we can't tell if there is a different rate of incidents. Not enough data and only self-reporting by people like us who feel like going on the web to figure it out. 

 

If ziggy knows of 2 energis out of GE's 2000 that have been hit, that is .1%, but if his pool of knowledge is not the 2000 GE Enrgis but, say, 10 or 50 or 100 in his local GE fleet, then the incidence rate would be greater. Even then we would need more data.

 

My sense is that we are seeing a non-trivial rate of incidence overall (i.e., not random one or two off problems, but something that must have a more systemic cause, whether too many bad batteries out of production or a bad circuit board or bad circuit/switch/relay design).

 

Your thinking through the way the Energi probably recharges the 12 volt battery might prove helpful in trying to isolate the cause of the problem. Thanks.

[yark99]

I posted to the other thread too, but:

Dead battery 2x - last time @1600 mi

 

CMax SE

201a - power liftgate & ambient lighting

winter package

moon roof (not that it matters)

no Nav

remote start

[littlebitfarm]

My turn today. Dead battery first thing in the morning. Had driven 80 miles yesterday, everything seemed fine. No lights used or left on. Got my boss to come jump it, so I wouldn't be too late for work. 4100 miles.

[bymaine]

Welcome to the club. Mine found dead yesterday. SE model, 3500 miles. Everything was off after the previous night's trip. Roadside Assistance jumped it, I drove right to the dealership. Noticed the clock was stuck at 1:09 and never updated during the trip to the dealership. 

Will call Ford Cust Service today. 

[zhackwyatt]

i added a poll to try to get a consensus for those who have had the problem. http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/index.php?/topic/1294-for-those-who-have-had-12v-battery-problems/

[Tripleoak]

3 month cmax se owner.  Got roadside assist. to start (jump start) car this morning.  Currently at the dealer. 

[bymaine]

Dead 12V -  2/22/13 @ 3500 miles.  

 

Dead in the morning after driving the previous night, left outside thru the night.

SE basic, 200A . 

No electric hatchback.

Standard radio, No NAV.

Built 11/12

[Oakland C-Max]

Just joined the group.  On December 26, we picked up the C-Max Energi plug-in with all the options that we ordered in October. This last Sunday, March 3, with 3500 miles on the car, it was completely dead.  My daughter was in a bad part of Oakland, and it was a real safety concern.  You could not lock the doors, and seedy looking criminal types walking the streets late at night.  Roadside assistance came within the hour and they could not jump the car.  They recommended a tow, but had the wrong truck, so my daughter had to wait another hour for the correct truck to come.  Two hours in the wrong part of Oakland late at night with a car that won't lock its doors is a real safety issue!

 

Anyway, Roadside Assistance towed the car to the dealer the next day.  They tested and replaced the battery, and also found the high-voltage connector under the hood not quite seated properly.  They reseated the High-Voltage connector, and I picked it up the next day upon returning from a business trip.

 

We will get a portable jump charger, and start checking the 12v battery voltage on a weekly basis just to be sure.  And call Ford Corporate to report the issue.

[Mr. Green Jeans]

My father-in-laws SE with less than 100 miles 12v dead. 

[Max Power]

My father-in-laws SE with less than 100 miles 12v dead. 

I think the testdrives are really bad about keeping the car charged.  Did yours come off the showroom floor.  Mine did and that may have been part of the reason it was so depleted to start out.

[forestergk]

Just signed in today... bought the Cmax SE 12-1-13 first dead battery 2-1-13 second dead battery 2-26-13... cars been in the shop 18 days already...switched out the battery the first time, must not be the battery if it happened again....

[skinchin]

Pickup my new C-Max Energi last month.  This morning (Monday) - dead battery.  Put a charger on it, started right up.  836 miles. 

 

Seems like the battery replacement is not the solution.   I'll call the dealer tomorrow and see what they say.

[oxnard]

Update.  I've posted this on other threads so if you read it sorry but thought I should share.

 

Called the dealer today.  Been in a month.  He asked me if my "ears were burning?"  Because he said he just got a software update and the tech was installing it now and I could pick up my car today.  Hope the problem is fixed?  I told him I would pick it up tomorrow.  Let's see if it starts then! LOL!

[Bubbasmith]

We've had 2013 cmax hybrid for two weeks, 600 miles. Couldn't start two days ago. No lights or power whatsoever. Had been in parking lot six hours. Local dealer salesman said to call Ford Roadside Maintenance. I leave keys in car for tow vehicle. Ten minutes later, different salesman at dealer anxiously calls and says he will personally pick up the car. He arrives before tow vehicle and jumps car but makes point of calling me to say dome light was left on. I tell him not so, and please have dealer service look at it. Dealer service calls the next day and says everything is fine and battery was discharged due to dome light on. I say no way an LED light drains battery in six hours, plus it should turn itself off. He says other systems stay on if car thinks someone is in vehicle using dome light even when keys are out of ignition. This must be the worst power saving feature ever devised. I left message with managers to have car looked at again because something's obviously messed up.

[oxnard]

Probably not your dome lights.  The easy fix for service is to blame the user. Bet it happens again. Check the build date of your car because some of the C-max's build before Feb. 2013 can have the problem you suffered (my was at the dealer for a month until they appeared to find a fix)  and they recommend using TSB 12-11-8 to solve the issue.  

 

Here is the link to the letter Ford sent to my dealer and I took a photo of it.

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/uploads/gallery/album_50/gallery_610_50_68861.jpg

[pomtrey]

well that at least looks hopeful; the anxiety about whether the car will start is really painful. please keep us updated. and good luck!!!

[Missyopu]

Adding my name to the roll call. A dead battery yesterday morning. I came out to go to work and it was dead. I had it jumped and taken to dealer. They said the battery was bad and replaced it. I have had it since February and it had about 2600 miles. It has had no problems prior to this. I can only hope this is fixed.

 

I was wondering after reading all these these posts about dead batteries how many vehicles have had to be replaced via the lemon law. I am also wondering as a first time hybrid owner is this a common problem with all hybrids or is the seemingly high volume of dead batteries on the c- max unusual ?

[kbf1kbf1]

Has anyone who has experienced the dead battery issue ever gotten a permanent fix to the problem, i.e., gotten a fix and thereafter never had the dead battery problem to deal with again? If so, what is the fix?

[BobJustBob]

kbf1kbf1,

 

The current fix being offered by Ford is software updates described in the following two technical service bulletins (TSB's):  13-4-13 and 13-5-1.  A number of us owners (me included, one week ago) have had these applied.  It is too soon to tell if this fixes the problem.  Keep checking this discussion thread, this subforum, and the batteries subforum often as we C-Max owners post about our experiences.

[salsaguy]

i hope everyone with this battery is filing an official complaint thru the TSB site for those those thousands of cmax  owners (or potential owners, like me and my wife) who have no clue about this forum/thread, so it gets widespread attention and a real fix.keep track of all your details

 

i only see 10 complaints showing here for ALL issues and there have been 20-30+ users here here it seems with this issue.

please post your info asap for visibility for all

 

 

http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Owner

Edited May 13, 2013 by salsaguy

[salman]

see the responses on the dead battery thread

 

dead 12 volts are not a safety issue, not appropriate for reporting to www.safercar.com (like going to the police for a fire and going to the fire department for a car theft - wrong agency)

[PlumbGuru]

C-Max SE with 201A Package Ingot Silver, Light Stone Interior. Purchased April 20. Battery dead the morning of April 24. Dealer claimed the battery was bad and replaced it on April 26. Wife left town on April 30. I drove the car about 60 miles on May 5, Battery dead May 8 after sitting for 2 days. At the dealer since May 8 no answers.