Expected life of HVB and cost to replace

[A2mike]

I would guess they used the Way Back Machine.

https://web.archive.org/web/20191130004110/http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/

Looks to be the last archive of the site.

[Billyk24]

On 8/6/2021 at 3:54 PM, A2mike said:

I would guess they used the Way Back Machine.

https://web.archive.org/web/20191130004110/http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/

Looks to be the last archive of the site.

link provides the "404 Not Found" message. 

[homestead]

Try again, worked for me.

[Billyk24]

On 8/6/2021 at 5:52 PM, homestead said:

Try again, worked for me.

400 Bad Request

Please forward this error screen to box408.temp.domains's WebMaster.

Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand:

[Billyk24]

On 8/7/2021 at 4:20 PM, Billyk24 said:

400 Bad Request

Please forward this error screen to box408.temp.domains's WebMaster.

Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand:

And this is a a link that I started in that forum:  400 Bad Request

Please forward this error screen to box408.temp.domains's WebMaster.

Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand:

[homestead]

Here is what I get 

[Billyk24]

On 8/7/2021 at 6:20 PM, homestead said:

Here is what I get 

when you click on the link for an article you get:"

Loading...

http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic/8327-hvb-fans-turn-on-at-under-70f/?view=getnewpost | 14:52:00 November 29, 2019

Got an HTTP 302 response at crawl time

Redirecting to...

http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic/8327-hvb-fans-turn-on-at-under-70f/#entry53449

and this: 

400 Bad Request

Please forward this error screen to box408.temp.domains's WebMaster.

Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand:

 

Forum is dead along with the detailed information. 

 

[homestead]

Tried it some more , a few pages load most do not.  Plus it is very slow.

[1crew]

Last summer, I had an issue when the outside temperature went over 100F the check engine light would come on and there was a code for battery balance circuit x stuck. Once the weather cooled, it cleared itself and was fine all winter until last month. It came back but again cleared itself with cooler weather. Last week it came back and the battery would not accept a charge. Now it is charging again but the light is still on. I bought the car used with 7000 miles on it in 2016, it is now at 80000. The max I have ever seen for displayed range is 13 miles in EV mode, it is down to 10 now and it usually drops in winter by 1-2 miles depending on outside temp. Now the important question: I have been searching for option for a battery pack replacement and I can't find any for the Energie. I found lots of choices for the regular C-Max, has anyone found a source other than Ford?

[cr08]

On 8/8/2021 at 8:29 PM, 1crew said:

Last summer, I had an issue when the outside temperature went over 100F the check engine light would come on and there was a code for battery balance circuit x stuck. Once the weather cooled, it cleared itself and was fine all winter until last month. It came back but again cleared itself with cooler weather. Last week it came back and the battery would not accept a charge. Now it is charging again but the light is still on. I bought the car used with 7000 miles on it in 2016, it is now at 80000. The max I have ever seen for displayed range is 13 miles in EV mode, it is down to 10 now and it usually drops in winter by 1-2 miles depending on outside temp. Now the important question: I have been searching for option for a battery pack replacement and I can't find any for the Energie. I found lots of choices for the regular C-Max, has anyone found a source other than Ford?

Your battery has degraded significantly which can explain the balancing circuit stuck codes you are seeing. From what I've gathered from these codes and anecdotes from not only my own experience but second hand as well is likely what is seen is some battery cells have degraded more than others. And under some conditions (extreme heat or cold combined with high or low SOC where the charge curve quickly drops off) can cause those particular cells to fall out of range of the others to where those balancing circuits are going to try and bring those cells back in range with the others. But because they are so degraded, the balancing circuits are likely going to stay on longer than the vehicle expects as it tries to bring those cells up and throws a code and reverts to letting the ICE run full time and not put a load on the battery as a safety feature.

If you are still under the hybrid warranty (If you bought it with only 7k in 2016, I imagine it is new enough it should be? Minimum you should have a 100k/8 year warranty) I'd definitely bring it in to your dealer and have them review it. Better if you can get the codes to trigger so they are active for the tech to read.

 

If you do manage to get a battery replacement (either via the dealer or through a 3rd party/DIY option), I'd definitely read up on the numerous notes out there with recommendations on how to best manage battery degradation. These vehicles are unfortunately not super intelligent in this regard and does take some manual intervention to maintain the battery properly.

Edited August 9, 2021 by cr08

[1crew]

Unfortunately, the manufacture date is 7/13 so I just missed the 8 year mark..

[jzchen]

On 8/9/2021 at 8:04 AM, 1crew said:

Unfortunately, the manufacture date is 7/13 so I just missed the 8 year mark..

First use date is considered start of warranty.  It's highly likely that it wasn't also first used until later when sold.  It wouldn't hurt to ask a dealer to check your VIN regarding possible remaining warranty.

[Billyk24]

On 8/9/2021 at 11:04 AM, 1crew said:

Unfortunately, the manufacture date is 7/13 so I just missed the 8 year mark..

There is no warranty replacement for a degraded battery capacity.  Read the warranty and don't be surprised. 

[hunt3rj2]

On 8/9/2021 at 4:20 PM, Billyk24 said:

There is no warranty replacement for a degraded battery capacity.  Read the warranty and don't be surprised. 

 

There is no warranty replacement for capacity fade, but there is warranty coverage for failed batteries. So what the warranty really means is that you will only be covered for battery replacements if it fades so badly that it causes a functional issue with the car like codes thrown for BECM issues, hybrid mode not functioning, etc. The line for that is supposedly 3.8 kWh.

[Billyk24]

On 8/11/2021 at 2:00 AM, hunt3rj2 said:

 

There is no warranty replacement for capacity fade, but there is warranty coverage for failed batteries. So what the warranty really means is that you will only be covered for battery replacements if it fades so badly that it causes a functional issue with the car like codes thrown for BECM issues, hybrid mode not functioning, etc. The line for that is supposedly 3.8 kWh.

It means something other than the battery cells has to have failed/malfunctioned causing the reduced capacity for warranty replacement.    Ford isn't giving away HVB.   I can only remember one owner receiving a replacement HVB for the 14 years I own a Ford Escape Hybrid.   Rare to hear of the same with the Cmax Energi. 

[jzchen]

Not sure what's going on exactly but the forum is crashing.  Let's hope we're not near the end.  I contacted green tec auto about a battery for the ENERGI models and they do have offerings as of two days ago (date on email response).  These are installed prices at one of their 20 locations across the continental US:. $4850 36 month warranty $4150 18 month warranty.  They also appear to have Hybrid battery options on their website for the Fusion (and extemely likely the CMAX as well).

[Randy McCready]

I’ve had my 2013 CMax Energi since 2015. Pre-pandemic I noticed the EV Battery not fully charging and did so at a diminishing rate….eventually might get 7 mile charge. So, I stopped doing the charging and just use the car as a gas only car. I am thinking about replacing the Heavy EV battery to help extend the life of the car. Estimated cost $9-10,000. I’m curious on thoughts about the wisdom in doing this. I am presuming today’s batteries would be better than the original. Thanks for your thoughts.

Randy in PA

[cr08]

On 11/22/2021 at 10:13 AM, Randy McCready said:

I’ve had my 2013 CMax Energi since 2015. Pre-pandemic I noticed the EV Battery not fully charging and did so at a diminishing rate….eventually might get 7 mile charge. So, I stopped doing the charging and just use the car as a gas only car. I am thinking about replacing the Heavy EV battery to help extend the life of the car. Estimated cost $9-10,000. I’m curious on thoughts about the wisdom in doing this. I am presuming today’s batteries would be better than the original. Thanks for your thoughts.

Randy in PA

As another 2013 owner, I'd say forget about it especially at that price. Not worth it for the limited value the car will ever see. At BEST you may be lucky and get one of the newer batteries I think the Fusion and C-Max started receiving around 2017 or so? But as far as I recall the improvement was very small.

 

If you are stuck on replacing the battery, I'd at least look at some of the third party/aftermarket options that exist. There's not many, but most seem to be offering refurbed batteries for a fraction of the price you listed.

 

Sounds like if your battery is in such a poor state now, it was likely not managed properly. These cars are not very smart on their own unfortunately and do require some hand holding to maintain the life and capacity of the battery. It's been well documented in the various communities including this one regarding steps that can be taken to better manage the battery. I'd recommend reviewing those even now, but especially if you go forward with replacing the battery.

[homestead]

I wouldn't buy the new battery for the energi.  Try researching for a place that will repair/replace existing cells in your existing battery.  Think about how much gas $9-$10k would buy.  If you are technically inclined buy a energi hvb from an auto salvage place and go through all the cells and see if you can replace all the bad ones in your car.  Warning!! High Voltage present.

Good Luck!

[Leon]

Does anyone have a link to a mechanic that would do cell replacement or module replacement at a reasonable cost?

 

[CSulli]

I just bought a used 2014 Ford CR-Max SE Hybrid. Having nothing to do I started checking battery replacement and I’m sick to my stomach. Car had 96k now it’s 97,500. Does this mean I can expect to fork over $4-$5k in a few months to replace the battery? I live in Central Florida where it’s hot 11 months out of the year. 
how can I be proactive about this? My SS check only goes so far. 

[Bill-N]

Owners have gotten over 200k miles without any significant hi-voltage battery worries.  Remember, the C-Max has 2 separate batteries: the hi-voltage one which is very expensive but hasn't caused issues, and a small 12-volt battery which typically needs replacing in 4-5 years at a cost of about $100-$150.

 

Many times, it isn't clear which of the batteries is being discussed.

 

Also, to muddy the waters more, the C-Max Energi uses it's even-larger hi-voltage battery more than the regular C-Max hybrid.  Some comments on this forum refer to reduced Energi driving range (how far can one drive using only the battery).

 

If yours is a plain-vanilla C-Max (SE or SEL model), I wouldn't worry about battery replacement.

 

 

Cheers.

[Irreverent]

On 12/7/2020 at 8:36 AM, scooter_scum said:

Well, I'm the canary in the coal mine.  My Ford CMAX Energi was all of 11 days out of warranty and my battery has failed.  Ford is asking me to pony up $15K to replace it.  The car drivability has dropped dramatically.  START/STOP no longer works.  Engine runs all the time (coasting, at stop lights, etc).  Acceleration is very sad with out the battery boost.  Our car has 87K miles, always garage kept except for long trips.  We are in a relatively cool climate and can't understand why our battery failed except for poor engineering/quality control from Ford.  Buyer beware!!!

Guess I'm another canary...

 

I took my 2013 Ford CMax in, to get the 12v battery replaced at the dealership.

 

Then they told me it needed a new BECM, for the hybrid battery. Agreed to that.

 

Then they tell me it needs a new hybrid battery. Car is only 9 years old.

 

However, I've been told that my not driving it often, could have caused this.

 

I don't know enough to tell if I'm being scammed...

 

GM has told me they will do a buyback for about 4-5K. Otherwise, they will put a lien on my car, for the work done so far, 12v battery replaced, free wiper blades, DX and labor.

 

Service rep said was a bit over $1000, then GM said it was over $2200.

 

I don't know a lot about hybrid batteries. I remember asking salesman, when I bought it, about the hybrid longevity, and he said he hadn't ever heard of one needing to be replaced, that it should last a long time. ???

 

Also, I'd been in a minor accident the fall before, and knew from the manual, that certain things need to be reset, after a crash.

 

Asked if they had been checked, wasn't told yes or no, only that the best mechanic, plus, Ford Engineers had worked on fixing it, so, they were sure, if something needed to be checked, it was.

 

Does this sound up front, that they're being honest? 

[jzchen]

On 12/13/2021 at 5:58 PM, Irreverent said:

Guess I'm another canary...

 

I took my 2013 Ford CMax in, to get the 12v battery replaced at the dealership.

 

Then they told me it needed a new BECM, for the hybrid battery. Agreed to that.

 

Then they tell me it needs a new hybrid battery. Car is only 9 years old.

 

However, I've been told that my not driving it often, could have caused this.

 

I don't know enough to tell if I'm being scammed...

 

GM has told me they will do a buyback for about 4-5K. Otherwise, they will put a lien on my car, for the work done so far, 12v battery replaced, free wiper blades, DX and labor.

 

Service rep said was a bit over $1000, then GM said it was over $2200.

 

I don't know a lot about hybrid batteries. I remember asking salesman, when I bought it, about the hybrid longevity, and he said he hadn't ever heard of one needing to be replaced, that it should last a long time. ???

 

Also, I'd been in a minor accident the fall before, and knew from the manual, that certain things need to be reset, after a crash.

 

Asked if they had been checked, wasn't told yes or no, only that the best mechanic, plus, Ford Engineers had worked on fixing it, so, they were sure, if something needed to be checked, it was.

 

Does this sound up front, that they're being honest? 

How many miles on her?  Hybrid or Plug-in?  It's annoying that you were told piecemeal of these costly replacement items, BECM and then hybrid battery.  Do you know if this is a CARB car, which comes with a longer warranty?

 

[Irreverent]

On 12/13/2021 at 7:00 PM, jzchen said:

How many miles on her?  Hybrid or Plug-in?  It's annoying that you were told piecemeal of these costly replacement items, BECM and then hybrid battery.  Do you know if this is a CARB car, which comes with a longer warranty?

 

Not sure the mileage, but I know it's very low for 9 years (car at dealership, so can't check the mileage). It's the hybrid SE.

 

It was/is, VERY annoying!! Especially, thinking I was taking it in for just a 12v battery replacement!

 

Don't know what a CARB car is, but I got the extended warranty, which was only 3 years  or a certain mileage, which has far surpassed.