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Understanding your C-Max Hybrid with Hybrid Assistant & Hybrid Reporter


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18 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Mister MMT

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 12:39 PM

Hi everybody. I'm driving a Mondeo (= European Fusion) Hybrid and usually report in the Fusion Hybrid forum.

 

I wish to bring to the attention of the C-Max Hybrid owners here, Hybrid Assistant, a free Android app which allows one to get much more information on the screen of a well positioned smartphone. I use it all the time and it helps me a lot with understanding what happens under the hood and improving my driving style and hence, mileage.

 

The app needs a fast BT OBDII emitter like the OBDLink LX (about 50 $), recommended by their site after extensive testing.

 

I believe the app also works with the C-Max Hybrid, but to my knowledge, nobody reported on trying it. If it did, it could be a worthwhile addition.

 

In addition to providing real-time information, Hybrid Reporter, another app available on their site, allows for creating detailed reports of your trips with tables and graphs, much like the ones produced by LarryH. It were his graphs which convinced me the FFH is a very economic hybrid.

 

HA and HR also work with miles and gallons (settings).

 

If you're interested, please visit my message showing some examples of my use, and have a look at the attached pictures.

 

Jan

Attached Files


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#2 OFFLINE   Mister MMT

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 05:04 PM

Murphy is trying on his FFE. He gets connected to the OBDLink though HA, but no data are displayed so far. I'll keep you posted on any progress.

 

Jan


Edited by Mister MMT, 19 August 2017 - 05:05 PM.


#3 OFFLINE   Mister MMT

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 05:11 PM

murphy got assistance from priusfan and they are making progress. 

 

http://www.fordfusio...porter/?p=29451

 

Still a few fixes needed, but there is now reasonable hope that HA will become available for US models of the HF35 hybrid system, both H and E models.

 

Jan



#4 OFFLINE   Mister MMT

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 05:12 PM

While waiting for further news from murphy, I've made a video in Miles and Gallons in order to better show you the kind of information HA and HR would give you if the HA team decided to make it available for the FFE & FFH, and maybe also the C-Max Hybrid and Energi models. 
 
 
It is possible to play it at speed x2.
 
Following the recommendations of Recumpence on the C-Max Hybrid forum and the videos of ptJones
 
I'm trying out Pulse & Glide or EV-Coasting while maintaining a SOC higher then 50%. 
 
The preciseness of the EV-kW bar in the upper right corner of the HA screen is very helpful: keeping it  as close to zero (below 1.0 EV- kW + or -) as possible nearly corresponds to driving in N. 
 
It takes some exercise because the gas pedal is quite sensitive (one would need an ECO mode).
 
I managed gliding over nice stretches without rapidly losing speed, but can certainly still get better at it. The tyres are at 39 psi. I'll try 42. It was hot (84 °F) and no AC...
 
Even so, 65 mpg US (probably 5 % less in reality) on this drive is far better then EPA-US and one of the best I had on this trip, which I run frequently!
 
Nevertheless, driving mainly using the ACC gets me 62 mpg under the same conditions and is requiring less attention. 
 
I'll keep testing, but doubt P & G will become my main driving style.
 
Jan 

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Edited by Mister MMT, 26 August 2017 - 07:39 AM.

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#5 OFFLINE   Mister MMT

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 05:12 AM

murphy posted a new report, showing the HA team is very close to include the FFE in the list of compatible hybrids. priusfan in fact announced this is upcoming on a French forum.

 

If the C-Max H community wished HA to also become available for the C-Max H, a volunteer owner would first have to test the current test version of the program.

 

He would have to contact priusfan on HybridAssistant@gmail.com and report here about his/her progress.

 

Preferably someone who uses an OBDLink LX or MX BT dongle and that knows how to move files into and out of an Android phone and install an app that doesn't come from the approved source: Settings > Security > Admin of peripherals > Authorize the installation of applications from other sources then the Play Store.

 

Good to know, HA will not become available for iPhone or iPad users. Some acquired an older Android phone or tablet, from Android 4.0 on. Mine for example is a S Note 2.

 

Jan


Edited by Mister MMT, 01 September 2017 - 03:54 PM.


#6 OFFLINE   raadsel

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 07:43 AM

What is the number in the lower right corner, between the wrench and the camera icons?



#7 OFFLINE   Mister MMT

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 09:00 AM

From the HA Dashoard:

 

 

 

The CPM (Cycles Per Minute) counter measures performance of your phone and OBD adapter.
It tells how many requests (and answers) are flowing to and from the car.

 

Jan



#8 OFFLINE   djc

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 07:40 PM

Interesting, thanks.  Roundabouts!

 

I like numbers.  But while driving I think I would like to be able to customize an additional high-visibility idiot-light type alert that shows I am driving optimally -

Say a corner of the screen that lights up green when I am staying between some parameters I can set. 

Or maybe have the option of some subtle audio alerts so eyes don't need to go off the road.

 

Please keep us posted on progress.  As far as I know, if they can make the app work with the Fusion hybrid, the C-max will work as well.



#9 OFFLINE   djc

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 08:02 PM

I especially like the brake feedback, engine warmup, and mpg info.  Nice use of color changes:

 



#10 OFFLINE   Mister MMT

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 06:13 AM

@djc. It will work, but the app will need a VIN for the C-Max Hybrid and it will have to identify the car as such.

 

If you accepted to assist getting it done, could you please contact priusfan at HybridAssistant@gmail.com ? He'll explain how to. It is not complicated. And you could check out with him about your wishes.

 

For the moment, the braking efficiency is not implementable (no PIDs) and the color coding for the engine efficiency and the engine warm-up (stages) are in the works. What you will get is what you see in my video.

 

 

In the mean time, you could consider adjusting the "My View" Window like shown by SnitGTS.

 

 

sml_gallery_1042_73_1133979.jpg

 

I use it in combination with HA to great satisfaction. 

 

Jan


Edited by Mister MMT, 26 August 2017 - 10:05 AM.


#11 OFFLINE   djc

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 09:58 AM

Thanks Jan for the suggestions.  I haven't tried the horizontal bar gauges in MyView - I will do so.

 

I have a couple bluetooth ODBII adapters, but last night I ordered a used copy of the recommended OBDlink LX on ebay ($30).  Near as I can tell leaving the adapter plugged in to the C-max requires moving a plastic panel from the lower left dash- it doesn't have a cutout that will let the adapter stay in place.  In any case that is what I have done.  I have been using the Automatic adapter and app:

 

https://www.automatic.com/

 

The Automatic adapter has an internal speaker and provides a gentle audible signal if I brake or accelerate hard.  That is not very useful since it usually only happens in situations where I don't have much choice.  What might be more useful is if it would let me adjust when it signalled - for example, whenever it would be possible for me to shift to EV by a slight let up on throttle (that is, when to pulse or glide, as you call it), or whenever any harder acceleration will trigger turning on the engine.

 

Thanks again for reaching out to C-max hybrid owners.


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#12 OFFLINE   Mister MMT

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 10:32 AM

Automatic looks nice, but somewhat expensive.

 

It could be interesting to test its BT adaptor (I call it dongle) and the OBDLink LX with HA as it is (downloaded from the PlayStore). We would know whether anything must be changed. I guess the VIN needed during starting HA will not be valid, but one never knows.

 

I understand your wish, but doubt HA will ever satisfy it. It is meant to instruct the driver. Nevertheless, I suggest you talk about it with priusfan (Xavier). It could be an interesting addition.

 

I turn on the ICE when the SOC is around 48 - 50 % and I avoid asking for more then 35 kW from the ICE. The available "Battery Power" as seen in the upper right bar for accelerating is 16 kW. When the screen is well positioned, it is easy to use these indicators for optimizing ones driving.

 

Jan


Edited by Mister MMT, 28 August 2017 - 10:10 AM.


#13 OFFLINE   djc

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 08:01 AM

I installed HA, along with a test apk and a text file that Xavier sent, on an Android phone.  I tried it with both the Automatic obdii adapter as well as a generic ELM based one.  HA would connect but stall with a message at bottom of the screen saying "obd initializing".   The ELM adapter works with ForScan and also the popular Torque app, but apparently not HA.

 

It will be a week or so before I receive an OBDLink LX.  I'll report if it works with a 2013 C-max.


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#14 OFFLINE   Mister MMT

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 10:04 AM

OK! Too bad for the Automatic adaptor. That's what I get with one of those cheaper ELM dongles which worked with Torque Pro on my Prius.

 

HA samples many parameters at high frequency. That's why you need a faster one like the OBDLink LX. 

 

Jan



#15 OFFLINE   djc

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 05:20 PM

I received an OBDLink LX dongle today and tried it with HA this afternoon on a short trip to and around a local cemetery (so I could watch the display without joining the locals).

HA connected to this dongle whereas it would not both connect and initialize with the "Automatic" and generic dongles I tried last week.

I set the ~6" LG Stylo phone running HA in front of the Ford's 7" center dashboard lcd panel.  That location is pretty easy to see, and it is generally shaded by the projection above the Ford's display.

 

HA had lots of useful info.  Most seemed to work as it was intended.  A few cases of metric units despite settings set to English; possibly a rogue temp number.

 

Exception:  no braking info.  I had been looking forward to that.   I've let Xavier know.   I hope he can fix that!

 

Thanks again Mister MMT for posting here.


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#16 OFFLINE   Mister MMT

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 02:34 AM

I'm glad it now works with the C-Max Hybrid and thanks for your time! Now, your fellow C-Max owners will soon be able to also test it and see for themselves whether it is of any use.

 

It would be great if you could post some images of your install and some screenshots. 

 

In message #10, I mentioned the limitations of HA for the Ford models. Certain PIDs are not functioning, or are implemented in a non-compatible way. 

 

Nevertheless, by all means, talk to priusfan about your observations and proposals for improvements.

 

For braking and driving style evaluation, the left panel of the instrument cluster remains very useful.

 

Jan


Edited by Mister MMT, 01 September 2017 - 02:39 AM.


#17 OFFLINE   djc

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 10:02 AM

I was hoping the experimental version for the C-max might include brake info - I don't believe any obd2 app provides that, right?   Now that I have an OBDLink LX, I will try their free OBDLink app that only works with their adapters.

 

The horizontal bars available in Ford's "MyView" display aren't very helpful for me - they are historical, and usually sit at or near max. What I would like to know about braking is how close I am to triggering friction braking.   Alternatively it would be good to know how much power is being generated by regen braking (Ford just shows the same spinning arrows no matter how much one brakes).  For example: can regen recapture the same amount of energy when braking from 10 to 0 mph as when braking from 50 to 40 mph??  When coming off a freeway should I use  constant decel rate, or is it better to vary it depending on velocity?

 

One big problem with the HA app that I hope can be fixed soon:  even after I set units to all English, HA still displays fuel mileage in metric L/100km.   That number will not mean anything to most of us in USA; we think in miles per gallon.



#18 OFFLINE   Mister MMT

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 03:41 PM

That with the braking is indeed a bit frustrating. 

 

For my 2nd gen Prius, I used the following PIDs in Torque Pro:

Friction Brake Power (kW) F-Brake Power 21C3 (((256 * A) + B) - 16383) * ((4*R - 512) + (4*E)) / 9549 0 200 kW 700
Regenerative Brake Torque Regen Torq 21C3 4 * E 0 186 Nm 700

LarryH told me in a private conversation on the FFE forum that to the best of his knowledge, equivalent PIDs for the FFH are lacking. If somebody has access to Forscan, could he/she check whether equivalent PIDs there exist ? If yes, it could maybe allow Xavier and the HA dev team to figure out a fix.

 

By now, I use the value listed in negative kW in the vertical bar showing the power going to the battery. My understanding is that as long as one stays below -35 kW, the system uses only or to a very major extent regenerative braking. Am I right?

 

I hope the dev team can fix the units issue.

 

Jan


Edited by Mister MMT, 02 September 2017 - 03:44 PM.


#19 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 09:19 PM

By now, I use the value listed in negative kW in the vertical bar showing the power going to the battery. My understanding is that as long as one stays below -35 kW, the system uses only or to a very major extent regenerative braking. Am I right?

 

I hope the dev team can fix the units issue.

 

Jan

Below a certain speed the maximum power must start dropping below a magnitude of 35kW - it can't generate that level of power all the way to a stop.  I went back and looked at some old Forscan data where I did several stops and it looks like the minimum speed may be in the range of 25 to 30 mph.  Below that speed the current (hence power) started dropping steadily with car speed.  These were not "panic stops".  It took about 9 to 13 seconds to drop from 50 mph to 10 mph.  I would have to make another recording with harder braking (friction brakes on) in order to get a better picture of what happens with maximum regen power versus speed.


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