mlsstl

Maybe Ford should hire you. ;-) Many of the C-Max owners with battery problems seem to have repeated occurrences that have been difficult or even impossible to find and fix, even when Ford engineering becomes involved, triggering lemon law buybacks. I'd like to think that Ford engineers are pretty sharp. As noted before, one doesn't have to read too far in this forum to find owners whose cars have been in the shop time after time, often for weeks while the owner drives a loaner. That doesn't inspire confidence in the car.

Two comments. First, in my area (eastern Missouri), there are very few C-Maxes of any type on dealer lots at this time. One dealer was completely out of them and most of them had just one or two. If you're shopping for a C-Max, there's not much to choose from compared to the fairly wide selection just two or three months ago. Maybe that's due to the run-out of the 2014 model year. If so, the 2015s will have to be released before there's much selection again. Second, the last time I counted the reports of battery problems on this site, 66% were the SE model, 20% were SEL and 14% Energi. However, one needs to know the sales volume by model for those numbers to be correctly interpreted. One would reasonably expect the SE to be the most popular model due to its lower cost, and the Energi the lowest volume seller due to its higher cost and loss of trunk space due to the larger battery, but I've never seen Ford provide those figures. As such, there is a fairly good chance that the percentage of battery-problems-by-model figures tracks closely to the relative numbers of each type sold. If so, that means one's chance of ending up with a battery-problem car are about the same no matter which model one buys. So, we're back to Ford needing to truly figure out the underlying cause of the issue. It's tough to fix things when no one still reallly knows what is causing the problem.

Unlike some on this forum, I'm not convinced that this is mainly a SE problem.I ran the numbers from the poll on this site, and 66% of the battery problems were tied to SEs, 20% to SELs and 14% to Energis. What we don't know are the percentages of each model sold. Presumably the SE model is going to be the more popular one because of price and the Energi will be the lowest seller for the same reason. It seems there is a good chance that the battery problem is evenly distributed among the models on the same basis as their sales percentage. In that case, having a SEL or Energi does not insulate an owner from the chance of problems any more than having a SE. On the other hand, if SEs are 80% of sales, their rate of failure would actually be lower than the fancier models. (I should also note that the poll in this thread may or may not be representative of the scope of the problem. There are obviously owners who do not participate in this forum.) As such, I'm in the camp that is still waiting for Ford to definitively identify the underlying cause of the problem. Only then can we have much confidence that any fix is going to be permanent.

I think the forum could do without the straw man arguments. No GM products were ever on my list. As noted, I simply do not have enough confidence in the car at this point. The fact that others do have confidence is fine for them. Opinions vary about every product ever made and cars are no exception. My original post was just to add my two cents to the conversation -- I've not asked anyone to change their mind.

I understand that one needs to take specialty forums with a grain of salt. In fact, I said that in my original post on the subject. (My experience with the internet goes back a number of years -- I was one of the administrators in the Internet New Users forum on Compuserve back in the 1990s so I think I have a decent feel for how to guage things.) I've also been following the various forums for the other cars that interest me. There are certainly complaints about the others but none of them involve an issue that is remotely as serious or have as many complaints in relation to the sales volume. And, for Ponypower, I have driven the C-Max several times and have said that I like it very much -- driving one is what got it on my short list in the first place. I'm sorry that I've disappointed some of the people here, but I think Ford (or any manufacturer for that matter) benefits as much from knowing why people didn't choose their product as much as knowing why others did. Ford has a great car in the C-Max and I'm sure they'll eventually figure out all of the issues involved. I just don't have enough confidence that they are where they need to be quite yet. With that, I think I've said about everything I can. I've got no real interest in getting too repetetive or engaging in a debate over opinions.

Sorry I lost you. The battery survey on this site still shows 20% of those affected are SEL owners, and that jumps to 34% if you count the Energi model which has a SEL trim level. I don't know what percentage of SEs were sold vs SELs and Energis, but the survey on this web site shows than none of the cars are risk-free. Think of the battery issue as the straw that broke the camel's back. I've spent quite a bit of time test driving the Subaru and find it a great (but different) drive. (And the same thing with the Volvo I was considering -- once again a great drive, but different.) My intent in starting this thread wasn't meant to change anyone's mind or bash the car. I was just letting people know what happened in my case. Hopefully Ford will figure things out and the CMax will have a great run for many years as a hybrid that is actually fun to drive. PS, as a follow-up to your edit, I seriously doubt I'll be driving in 20 years.... ;-)

It's not that I'm adverse to getting good mileage from a car, but for me, that would only be a bonus, not a primary criteria. If mileage was the biggest single issue for me, it'd be hard to argue against a Prius. However, my next door neighbor owns one and I find it one of the most lifeless cars I've ever been in. In contrast, the CMax is downright enjoyable to drive. As for the lack of a spare, I know that spare tire kits are available (same issue for the new Volvos, Minis and many other cars), but its annoying that they don't have a proper storage place. You just lose trunk space and have unsecured cargo. Same thing with the driver's "space" -- it isn't really the seat itself, but rather the overall area -- it's just kind of so-so (knee hits console, etc.) Obviously others will feel differently depending on their body type and personal preferences. But as noted earlier, neither of these were the deal-killer for me. But, ultimately, other than those drivers who think of cars only in terms of the cheapest transportation from point A to B, I think most car buyers at some point have a "this is it" reaction when they drive one car versus others they've looked at. And that "it" is not the same everyone.

Thanks again everyone. And I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings with the "Jay Leno" remark. It was just a lead-up to the fact that the vast majority of us have to compromise when we pick the one car we're going to be driving for the next "X" number of years. I don't think it should surprise anyone that two people can look at the same set of cars and come to different conclusions as to which is best in their circumstances.

Thanks for the info. Unless one is rich enough to have a Jay Leno garage full of daily driving options, most of us have to settle down to one or two cars. Therefore, anything I buy is going to have a number of compromises. When it comes to choosing an auto, everyone has a different balance point for what combination of looks, comfort, features, up-front & operating costs, reliability and driving action works best for them. Unfortunately, the CMax's battery problem is a bigger uncertainty than I want to take on, and there are no shortage of posts in this forum that indicate the underlying cause is still a mystery to Ford. As for gas mileage, I keep good track of my driving for tax reasons, so it was very little work to look back over the past five years. A C-Max would save me about $40 to $50 a month in gas compared to a Subaru (the 2015 Outbacks get about 10% better mileage than the prior models). That's not enough to make up for the current battery uncertainty, especially since gas mileage wasn't what attracted me to the CMax in the first place.

Pretty much decided on a Subaru Outback. It has a good reputation for reliability, I find it a lot of fun to drive and the driver's "space" (more than just the seat) is an excellent fit for me. And, none of its drawbacks are deal breakers for me. I like the new Volvos, but they are pricey, have way more power than I need, and frankly, Volvo has been chasing the BMW/Audi crowd so hard that I think they sort of forgot their old customers.

I am getting a new car later this summer and I've been researching what to buy as a replacement for my 10 year old Volvo. I've driven a dozen different cars and the CMax was one of my top 3 finalists (the others being another Volvo or a Subaru.) I was really taken with the CMax driving experience - quiet, great ride, excellent handling and exceptionally roomy for its size. Drawbacks? The driver's seat was somewhat cramped in the knee and footwell area for me -- not a big deal in city driving but a concern for road trips. The moonroof didn't open, which is a feature I've really enjoyed in my Volvo. The lack of a spare (though not unique to the CMax) -- I don't like the idea of being stranded on a highway in the middle of nowhere waiting for a tow truck. The gas mileage downgrade kerfuffle was never an issue for me. 40ish mpg would have been a nice bonus, but wasn't my main reason for buying a car. However, the one thing that cooked the CMax's goose for me were the numerous reports of repeated dead 12 volt batteries on low mileage cars for the past 2 years with no real explanation or solid fix. I simply do not want to be the lab rat for product development. I want my transportation to be reliable. A likely problem at 100,000 miles is one thing. Mutliple dead batteries, that often can't be jumped, in the first year of ownership is another. So, I'll take a pass on the CMax at this time. I still really like the car. Hopefully the problems will be sorted out when we trade my wife's car in another 2 or 3 years. Finally, I do appreciate this forum. The amount of information available was a great help. I'm familiar enough with internet forums to know that one needs to take things with a grain of salt and discount both the rants of the angry malcontents and the fanboys who defend their preference to the death, but over the past few months it is pretty clear that Ford has one big problem to truly fix before I can commit.

I vote for PTJone's answer. I've had this happen on other cars before, usually when it is very humid out. The evaporator coil freezes over to the point that the air flow is blocked. Running the blower fan on high with the AC off usually fixes it in a few minutes. There is supposed to be a temperature probe in the coil that detects the freezing and cycles the compressor off and on to keep the ice build-up from happening, but sometimes it just doesn't work well.

Bull, I agree with Marc -- you've confused what a dealer is willing to pay you for your car with it's retail value. I guarantee you that if Carmax buys your car for $16K, the person they sell it to is not going to get it for $16K. They'll more likely list it for around $20K+. Carmax most certainly pays less for a cash purchase that you would get for a trade because they've lost the profit they would have made on the other side of a deal (the markup on the car you're buying). The correct way to figure your depreciation on the car you bought new is to find what a dealer would now sell it for as a used car.

Rocco, what's your customary highway cruise speed away from cities? You didn't mention your typical speed. (And, interstates in urban areas don't qualify as "highway driving" in my book.) In reading through the C-Max and Fusion Hybrid forums, it seems that the people who get highway mileage in the mid-40s hold their speed to under 70 mph while those who zip along faster lose several mpgs.

Actually, the Volvo C30 was discontinued the end of 2013.

About 2 months ago a coworker of mine was given a CT200h as a loaner while his Lexus SUV was in the shop. While I was only a passenger that day, I was completely underwhelmed. No zip, the ride was mushy for a small car, the engine sounded like a dinky 4-banger and the interior didn't do much for me. My coworker was equally unimpressed. This was before I'd driven a C-Max or ridden in another friend's Lincoln MKZ and the CT200h experience went a long way toward reconfirming my bias that hybrids were of no interest to me. I suspect the posters above have it right. It's a status car name for someone who doesn't care much about driving and wants a hybrid but doesn't want to lower themselves to a mere Toyota.

Good point about inflation and thanks for the chart. I always find things like that interesting. However, I know in my personal case that my income hasn't tripled since 1998 to keep up with current gas prices! As noted in my other posts, I'm still in the car shopping phase (I update cars about every 10 years) but the aspect of the C-Max that I find attractive is the combination of two things - a car that is comfortable & fun to drive along with good mileage. Good MPGs are of nominal interest to me if I have to peddle around in a Prius, but the C-Max would let me shave 40% off my current gas bill and still enjoy driving. I suspect I'll become one of you in a few months.

For business reasons, I've always recorded the gas purchases I make. My at-hand records go back to 1998, so it was an easy & fast project to make the graph shown below. I thought others in this forum would find it interesting. While there have been a few pauses & even a dip here and there, the graph makes it pretty clear the overall trend the past 16 years has been in only one direction, from just over $1 a gallon to the roughly $3.50 a gallon I'm paying now. Heck, I'm old enough to remember that when I started driving at age 16, I got real ticked off whenever gas went over 20 cents a gallon (late 1960s). Even if one is not a full-tilt environmentalist, money is money and good mileage pays off.

Watched the commercial on the link you posted. Have to say I don't ever remember seeing it. Same with the Cadillac-stye spoof that one finds when you do a C-Max ad search on Google. I gather the revised 45/40/43 figures from last summer are now solid EPA figures (with the variance that has always included for different drivers regardless of make/model), so it does seem they should start telling people about the car again.

PS, regarding the C-Max sales figures, I'm in the group that, if I had the chance to ask a question of the powers-that-be at Ford, it would be "what advertising?" I was basically unaware of the car until a Ford salesman showed it to me after I went to the dealership to look at a Fusion. I'm not a voracious TV watcher, but for all the Ford Ecoboost commercials I've seen for their various models, it seems like the C-Max is an abandoned stepchild. I don't ever recall of ever having seen a commercial for the car. It is odd that I constantly see Lincoln commercials for their upscale hybrid, yet zip, zero, nada for the C-Max, which shoots for one of the biggest car segments in the US. Toyota has sold 1.4 million Prius cars since it's introduction -- almost 50% of all the hybrids sold in the US according to Wikipedia. Sure, the C-Max EPA mpg issue was embarrassing, but there have been far worse situations over the years that car makers have made it through. I'd much rather have a Ford car that disappoints a few miles per gallon than a GM product with a bad ignition switch that has killed people. Heck, it was just a few months ago that Toyota reached a $1.6 billion settlement for the sudden acceleration class action lawsuit -- again a life & death problem. I'll take disappointing gas mileage any day of the week. So, I guess this is my question: Is Ford ever going to start advertising their hybrid that is more comfortable, more stylish, a heck of a lot more fun to drive and still gets pretty dang good mileage?

I'm not yet a C-Max owner, but am seriously thinking about one. The Fusion is also on the list of 3 or 4 cars I'm considering so I've been reading the Fusion forms as well as this one. One doesn't have to read too far into the comments from Fusion owners to find out their MPG complaints are just as extensive, if not more so, than those of the C-Maxers. On the flip side, it is actually a bit easier to find a C-Max owner boasting of significantly bettering their EPA figures than it is to find a Fusion owner doing the same. That leaves a couple of possible explanations for the wildly varying results. One is that there is a significant quality control inconsistency between cars. Or, it could be a wide difference in the conscious (or unconscious) driving habits of the owners. Or, it could be external factors such as temperature and route differences such as length of trips, city vs highway, flat vs hills, number of stoplights, etc. While people love answers where one single thing has caused all the problems for everyone, I suspect all three play a role with the driver's habits being the biggest issue. When I test drove a C-Max, I had no problem getting 42 MPG, but I test drive cars no differently than I drive the car I own. My wife, who pushes cars much harder in a test drive than she normally drives, got 29 mpg in the same car over roughly the same route with no substantial weather differences. It seems pretty obvious to me that if one wants the full sports sedan/hatchback experience, the C-Max is the wrong car to buy. Same thing with the peson who spends 80% of their time on the interstate highways at 70+ mph -- the C-Max is the wrong car. Neither is true for me. About 80% of my miles are city/suburban. And while I like a car with a good suspension, road feel and a bit of zip, I'm well past my sports car phase. Frankly, I think the EPA mileage issue is overblown. I happen to like the way the C-Max drives, its size and versitility. There are a few things I like better about the Fusion, but there is no way I can combine the attributes of each into one car. I'll have to choose one or the other. If that choice is for the C-Max, its mileage is going to be a bonus regardless of the exact number. It's going to be a whole lot better than the annual average of 23 mpg I get from my Volvo right now.

Sorry for the incorrect assumption. My opinion of the SEL's back seats is about the same as for the SE, except for the leather. Not saying that anyone will suffer in the back seat, but there does seem to be a drop-off in comfort compared to the front. Right after finishing the C-Max drive today, I checked out the seats in a Fusion SE. The back seats were much nicer.

It was an SE today, though I don't recall the SEL I drove a few days ago smelling any different. Definitely a noticable odor that was a bit different from the other new car smell I've experienced in the past. I just chalk it up to the plastics and other materials used in the interior -- I suspect they've changed over the years. I'm not overly worried about it at this point. Kind of like painting a room -- very noticable right afterwards but it usually fades quickly with time.

My wife test drove the car today -- she's been aggressive with her new car test driving from when I first met her 40 years ago. Today showed she hasn't lost a beat. (She calms down for her every day driving.) I sat in the passenger seats for the whole ride. Anyway, after a lot of zooming around the city, she ended up with 29 mpg (she gets 30 to 31 city in her Mini and 40 on the highway), but was impressed with how solidly quiet the C-Max was and how well the steering and suspension performed, especially on some rougher pavements. I did note today that the rear seats are a solid notch or two lower quality than the front seats - lower and not very well padded. I know I won't spend much time there, but the difference in quality suprised me a bit. The Fusion back seat, by comparison, is much closer in quality to the fronts. The only thing that really bothered my wife was the rather odd "new car smell". It seemed different from everything else we've been in and she ended up with a headache from it. Ended up opening the windows, but her headache didn't disappear until 15 or 20 minutes after we got in my Volvo to go home. I would think time would take care of that issue. We're probably still a month or two away from any purchase so I'm probably done with test drives for a while. Will have one more round through the choices when decision time finally arrives. It'll be interesting to see what I end up with.

I'm rather late to this thread, but for those above who get 43 mpg on the highway, I'd be curious to hear at what speed you typically drive. I'm in the "thinking about one of these" mode. Only about 20% to 25% of my driving is highway, but I'd like to have a realistic expectation. I'm typically a 70 to 75 mph driver, but not much of a "zoomer".