stevedebi

Funny, when I saw the thread title I wondered if the OP was considering between these two cars to buy!

I don't think I'm forgetting anything when I speak of the real world MPG I get when driving in hybrid mode. 47 and 47 is ceratainly achievable when driven correctly. But most folks don't want to drive as a hybrid needs to be driven - too much trouble. If you just run around town any old way, expect 40; if you do 80 on the highway (I have), expect 36 MPG (what I got).

It is quite possible the C-Max would have passed the EPA tests at the mileage they approved - if they had checked it. It uses the same drivetrain and software as the Fusion Hybrid, and wind dynamics are not part of the testing so far as I know. They tested the Fusion, and the EPA signed off on using the same numbers for the C-Max. The problem is that the C-Max cross section killed the mileage, so in the real world it didn't do as well, especially on the highway. I believe that 47 is not impossible at 55 MPH, I regularly get 44 at about 65 MPH.

Just a note, a hybrid IS inherently complex. There are different types of engineering, but it takes a lot of software to balance out the electric and ICE. I'd take a look at other forums before buying a hybrid if you think you don't like them because of your Ford experience.

I certainly didn't mean to pile onto the OP, but I actually understand that Ford had to make decisions about hardware for Sync 3, and those resulted in lack of backwards compatability. I think that Android or PC users are more likely to understand this, since newer Android OS won't work on older hardware, and often newer Windows OS come with minimum hardware requirements. Apple tends to be somewhat more backwards compatible. Personally, I understand Microsoft, and have no problems with Sync 2. I recognize what Ford was trying to do (in a Microsoft kind of way). I do wish it could do better voice recognition. But it works way better than my wife's VW nav unit. I'm hoping the new 3.8 update helps out.

The minimum hybrid warranty is 8/100K, so that part is covered. As others have noted, you can get an ESP warranty from Ford, but at this mileage you would have to pay for a dealer inspection first. There is a lot that can go wrong on these cars (not that they necessarily will), that is not covered as part of the hybrid warranty, which only covers the HVB and eCVT. For example, the electric heaters are unique to the Energi, but are not covered. The same is true of parts of the braking system - not used on Ford ICE cars, but still not falling under the Federal Hybrid warranty. Personally, I buy an extended warranty if I plan to buy the car (I'm currently leasing) that covers the length of the payments. But many folks don't bother, preferring to save the money up front.

The idea of the odometer is interesting in newer cars. It is not a mechanical system, how could it be "rolled back"? Having said that, my 2002 civic had to get a new instrument cluster, and it turns out that when we swapped if for a used one, it had 40K less miles on it on the odo than the original - and it cannot be changed. But that is not rolling back, that is a complete replacement. Makes me wonder if that would be true of the C-Max as well.

He is getting the no liability policy, which is supplemental. I generally get it as well, since it is usually 9 bucks for the peace of mind. If I get into an accident, that is 2K or so out of pocket immediately, plus even with no accidents they can complain about anything that appears to have happened to the car, like a windshield pit. I just like the peace of mind that comes with SI. I know for sure that my insurance covers rentals - but not everything.

They both have a coolant sensor and heat source for ICE driving, but the Energi has a separate one purely for EV Now mode, where the engine never comes on while the HVB has charge remaining. The Energi switches between the modes depending on the temperature of the engine coolant (which is obviously no hot at all when the ICE is not being engaged). Sorry for those who are in the hybrid reading this, but someone asked... Anyway, I find it useful to read this forum for the common issues, but I do try and remember not to post my Energi problems here. Not much response to those! I do appreciate all the hybrid owners putting up with the occasional post.

Just a note for CA. The registration process indicates if a smog check is done. I think it would be fairly simply for the state to cross check the VIN to ensure the fix was done, or to do an independent check of their databases and flag any VW Diesel that is attempting to renew registration without the fix.

As others have noted, you should post over in the Energi forum, you will get more responses there. http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/

Thanks for the numbers. So the two models are not that far apart. However, for costs, the Fusion is also available as an ICE, which means it costs less to produce the hybrid / Energi. It is going to be very interesting this next year to see what Ford does with the C-Max production for US sales (or doesn't do). I'm hoping they continue sales, but who knows? Oh yeah, Ford does, but they aren't talking...

What about combined Fusion/FFE vs Combined C-Max/Energi?

Actually I find it useful that the back doors don't unlock. I often don't hear the doors lock when I press the button on the front handle. I can pull the rear handle to make sure the car is locked!

Doesn't work with my 2014 Energi.

I think I DO understand the government regulations. I believe the C-Max and Fusion are in the same class, so the Fusion can provide the CARB low emissions vehicles quite nicely.

Based on this article, I'd say the estimates were on track: https://www.cars.com/articles/2013/11/how-quickly-does-the-tesla-model-s-battery-charge/

I drive an Energi, and there are lots of folks that don't fill up more than once every 6 months. I personally fill up every two months, assuming I don't have road trips in between. Yet I can take my car anywhere without regard for charging stations. As to range, my two cars have 550 - 600 (C-Max Energi, in gasoline hybrid mode) and 650 (VW TDI [at least until VW changes the computer]). I check the tank size before I buy a car; I don't want to have to fill up too often. I'd love one of these cars, but I'd use in only here in LA, and install the powerful charger at home. The Tesla takes forever to charge on a normal plug in, and even businesses who have chargers are only L2, not the high power chargers used by Tesla. And this is in LA, probably third in charging capabilities behind San Franscisco and Silicon Valley.

Don't misunderstand me, I think the car is cool. But to me it would not do for my needs unless I were rich, in which case I probably wouldn't need to worry about charging it anyway. But I'd still have a freeway car for use on those long trips I would take enjoying my riches. Here is LA it actually makes sense, because I would only have to charge up a few times a week. But on a practical basis as the only car, nope, no way, regardless of my income.

Man, considering these low numbers, I'm thinking they may not go to the expense of continuing C-Max production in the US when the current plant is moved to Mexico. They could do just as well with the Fusion Hybrid / Energi. They set out to create a "Prius killer", but they can't compete on pure MPG (because the C-Max is heavier), and not that many people seem to appreciate the great features of the C-Max design (like sturdiness, visibility, interior room, and ease of access). Don't mistake my post; I'm sold on the car. But I'm not seeing the economic sense with the Fusion available.

Makes me wonder if the SEL radio difference have something to do with this. And of course, 2013 was the first year. I'm sure they have been improving the systems all along.

You bring up some interesting points, but "lots of miles" when you have to recharge every 240 miles or so? And even at 30 minutes, that is a fair chunk of life used up waiting for the car to be ready to go - and just make sure you don't want to "go" more than 250. No thanks. As for the "superchargers", as electricity gets more expensive, those chargers will either bankrupt the company or they will start charging cash to use them. They are losing thousands with each car they produce, and should the subsidies dry up the company is toast. But I don't think people are going to be using that supercharge network for all their miles, or even most. The network is designed for interstate driving. Normal home driving is recharged by home electricity. These are nice commuter cars for very rich folks.

Let's see, how many 21K C-Max can you get for 131K? Really, the Energi is closer. You could buy four C-Max Energi for one Model X. Almost 5 for the performance model. But really, the "X" is a lot bigger car (over 5000 lbs), and entirely different. If you have to ask the price, the car isn't for you.

Mine took about 3 days IIRC. I'm in LA. Shipping was free.

I got mine. Looks very nice, but then I prefer black - doesn't show the dirt as much!