HotPotato

Just traded my C-Max for a 2018 Chevy Volt. Wanted a Bolt EV but couldn't stand the seats, and my wife wasn't thrilled with the idea of me driving another "dorky rolling potato," so... now I'm driving an oops-proof electric car that drives like a sport sedan. Not sure if it was the right choice---goodbye to thigh support, airy interior, room to put your left foot somewhere other than under the brake pedal (the real reason for that regen-on-demand steering wheel paddle!), and frankly the ability to see out of the damn car at all---but I cherished those 30-60 second stretches of electric-powered silence in the C-Max, and now they can go on for miles and miles. And I've missed sporty: with a tire-smoking 0-30 time, low center of gravity and 50-50 weight distribution, the Volt is certainly sporty. We'll see how it goes.

BUMP -- has anyone figured this out? It's literally driven me to where I'm fixing to trade an otherwise perfectly good car. AFAIK my car HAS had the door latch recall; no improvement. I HAVE tried silicone spray, no lasting improvement. I have no idea what dude is talking about regarding pulling fuzzy stuff down from inside the window channel, so haven't tried that and hence no improvement. I HAVE had my transmission and windshield both replaced (not for this reason), no improvement.

Unless Ford can tell me how to fix this, I'm going to assume it's happening because the car has poor torsional rigidity and is twisting itself apart with every creaky corner or creaky driveway curb cut. And that's going to make me think trading it is a good idea. And then I'll feel like sucker of the year for buying a vehicle with such low resale value---value that drops another thousand bucks once the used car manager drives it around the block and hears it creaking like a pirate ship.

The real problem with EV is the charging time of a half an hour or more is inconvenient when compared to 10min. gas fill up. Going Cross Country would be a pain. ;)

 

Paul

Most people use their cars to commute. Plug it in when you get home, and you have a full tank every morning without ever going to a nasty gas station. That's a time saving, not a time suck.

But sure, sometimes you take a road trip. So have a different car for road trips. Or buy a PHEV, with gas still on board. Or buy a Tesla, which has a giant battery and can charge twice as fast as others; unless you have a trucker-level bladder you're gonna have to stop to pee and eat periodically anyway.

It's true that there aren't as many charging stations as gas stations, and charging times for all but Teslas are a bit pokey. But that will change.

I hope you are enjoying the car!

For anyone else reading this thread for similar reasons, I have a 2013. If the car has had all the many recalls and applicable TSBs performed, it should be a pleasant and reliable car. If it hasn't, you can schedule a nice visit with the service department for them to ID and plow through them all (except the trans).

No idea what the deal is with folks having tire and brake problems; my tires have had long life and normal wear and the brakes have minimal wear, no replacements yet.

The only annoyances in mine:

1. I did have my transmission replaced. At this point it's a known issue with at least some 2013s. Do you live in California? If so, I wouldn't worry about that as much, because I'm told it's considered part of the hybrid system which under California law is under warranty for 10 years or 150,000 miles.

2. Creaking from the door seals when cornering, which is probably not a deal-killer to someone who drives with the radio on; it just happens to annoy me more than most.

3. Possible sensor failure in the AC leading to iced-up coils on long road trips in very hot climates...I should probably replace it, but a) it becomes an issue maybe once a year, and b) it happens around the time I'd stop for a burger anyway, and the hot sun has melted off the ice by the time I'm done eating.

4. The 12 volt battery in the past only seemed to last a year or two---but this may be in part because I have aftermarket amplifiers for my stereo and had a very short commute for a while, and anyway it seems to be less of an issue after the last round of software updates. Worst case, buy a battery with a long warranty; then the battery maker or retailer will be buying a new one if it fails, instead of you.

5. Nearly all new cars have very soft engine mounts to quell noise and vibration---but the flip side is that they wear quickly, and after 5 years or so one or more of them will inevitably have compressed enough that more vibration on engine shut-off and more noise on full-throttle operation can enter the cabin. If you didn't own the car since new and you aren't extremely sensitive to your car's behavior, you wouldn't even notice. But I have and I am so I do.

6. Leaves really like to settle inside the fenders and they're really hard to get out of there; and since that's not far from the cabin air intake, I suppose if it's rainy where you live this could lead to a mildewy smell. That's a minor issue only once a year for me and maybe wouldn't be if I'd change my cabin air filter more often.

How long has it been? Normally their good for 5 yrs.

 

Paul

More like 1-2 years for me, and I live in a warm climate. However, I do have aftermarket audio installed, so maybe it's me.

Thanks for the responses. I'm going to keep Miss Pearl at least until her extended warranty runs out. :)

 

BTW, I drove a Chevy Bolt (looking to possibly add an all-electric to the C-Max) and I did not like this car. It's very small and the seats were extremely uncomfortable. Went to a BMW dealership to drive an i3 but they didn't have one on the lot (they did have the shell of an i8, though, no engine). Then I saw a day or two ago where the i3 and i8 will be discontinued and replaced.

I had the same issue, I really wanted to like the Bolt but the hard-edged seats, narrower cabin and Fisher-Price plastics were really hard to swallow after enjoying the C-Max's perfectly proportioned thrones and entry-luxury-quality interior.

My C-Max is just about paid off, still drives nicely, and has a near-new transmission---every logical part of me says to keep it. However, after 72k mi in my C-Max there is so much creaking around the door frames, and a couple of squeaks inside and outside the car now too, that I have serious doubts about the long-term viability of the car---and I live in a sunny state where the roads are never salted. I'm used to German cars that are durable but unreliable. In the C-Max I have a car that's hypothetically reliable (now that we've served as guinea pigs through innumerable recalls and TSBs) but certainly doesn't seem durable. I wish there were strut tie bars or something available for it to improve the dishrag-like rigidity. No wonder the dealer gave me a lowball trade-in estimate.

In any case, if you like me are thinking of going more electric but want a bigger car, not a smaller one, consider the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. It's an all wheel drive CUV on the large end of compact, with a spacious interior, lovely leather seats, and Apple CarPlay. It gives you 22 miles of all-electric range, then switches over to hybrid operation. The MPG while there's still charge in the battery is an impressive 74 MPGe. The MPG once the battery is exhausted is a dismal 25 mpg, the same as a typical NON-hybrid CUV of similar size. So the key question is what percentage of your drive will be on electricity. If your commute is under 50 miles, it is more efficient than a conventional hybrid CUV; but if your commute is 50 miles or more, a conventional hybrid CUV is more efficient. If your commute is 22 miles or less, of course, you could hypothetically use no fuel at all. 

Apparently it affects only about 100 early-build cars.

Pretty sure the thing could not be more troublesome than the C-Max...several issues on my C-Max never got addressed under warranty because there were too many recalls to attend to first. The Max has still got creaky doors, intermittent AC, and a door latch recall that apparently still doesn't have parts available, off the top of my head...but the worst of it is over. I've had my transmission and CV joint replaced finally...plus, the 12 volt battery no longer dies every year, and the infotainment finally mostly works, so all those software updates did something useful in the end. I really enjoy the C-Max overall, and I know it's financial insanity to keep a new car less than 10 years...I just hate the feeling that another shoe could drop--e.g. OMG, What if the door creaking isn't because of dry seals but a cracked frame? What if the trans goes out again? etc.-- and my confidence in the dealer's service department is asymptotically approaching zero.

"Just make it already.”  That is what we have been saying for years - especially a camper (have loved all the concept videos over the years).

 

Can't stand ICE vehicles anymore, especially diesel.  And to imagine that I once pondered a conversion to diesel for our VW MV - Eeeeek !

Yep. Every year, VW trots out another "Microbus reborn as an electric vehicle" for the car shows, promises to build it, and then flakes out. Another year, another 2-tone electric van with lots of seats and windows, another broken promise to build it. Like clockwork. Supposedly this time with the ID Buzz it's different. I'll believe it when I see it at the dealer with a Monroney sticker in the window.

I've come pretty close to trading the C-Max for a Chevy Bolt EV. But the driver's seat is a deal killer, like sitting in a narrow but attractively upholstered lawn chair, complete with having to slide over a hard metal frame under the edge every time you enter or exit the car. If I could put C-Max seats in the Bolt, they'd have a sale. Actually, one guy did in fact put the seats from his rear-ended VW Jetta into his Bolt EV. Swapped the Bolt's airbag modules into the seats in place of the VW ones, and off to the races. Others have figured out how much additional foam to put in the Chevy seat, what kind, how and where -- and honestly I could do that the same afternoon I bought the car, it's not a complicated job. I'd still have to figure something out for the permanently forward tilting headrest constantly knocking at my skull, though -- by far my least favorite thing about modern cars. It's lovely that the C-Max lets you ratchet the headrest back...one of my favorite things about the car, even though it's a small thing.

OK, I owe my Pirelli P7 AS tires an apology. Part of the issue is that they were "greasy" and new, and part of the issue was that, despite being told three times to please fill the tires to the pressures stated on the door jamb panel, the tire shop underinflated them. I am now running the pressure a bit higher than I did with the Michelins, but the squirmy handling is gone. I'd still probably go OEM if I were to do it over, but I'm satisfied.

I do rotate the tires at every oil change, so neither the Michelins or Pirellis have ever gotten particularly noisy. The OEM Goodyears on my last new car got really noisy over time, while the Yokohama S Drives I replaced them with never did (but at some cost to handling precision -- those Yokes were heavy and greasy til the last mile).

I believe there is a TSB but IIRC, it has the dealer replace the refrigerant, dryer and sensor (likely several $100).  Evaporator core icing is a common issue on many cars not only the C-Max.  Most will likley never notice it as the core won't completely freeze over and completely block air flow.  

 

I suggested in another thread to a poster that  for $11 one should simply change the sensor.  IIRC, the poster changed the sensor and it corrected the issue.  As I explained in the other thread, the sensor monitors evaporator core temperature.  When the temperature approaches freezing, the compressor is turned off so ice does not form on the core.  So, a failing sensor that reads too high could allow ice to build up under moderate to low relative humidity.  Even if the humidity might be low at 100F, when that 100F air is cooled to near 32F, the water vapor in the air will still  condense on the core.  So, if the sensor is faulty, the compressor will still run and cool the core to 32F or lower.  It may take a long time for ice to build up to completely block air flow at low relative humidy and not so long at high humidity.

 

Now the fact that turning the ac on and off might have reset it suggests that there may also be  water in the refrigerant or low charge.  That's likely why the TSB recommends replacing the sensor and refrigerant.  But for $11 change the sensor. :)  ;)

 

EDIT: Here's the link to the TSB.

You, sir, are a prince among men. Thank you.

I was on a long road trip in my 2013 C-Max, ~60k mi on the car, and this happened to me when it was over 100 degrees out with no exits for miles. The AC could be heard but not felt: NOTHING seemed to be coming out of the dash vents. Turning the temperature all the way down, and the fan all the way up, or trying to change which vents the air was directed to, did not help. The blower could be HEARD plenty, and sounded like it was trying to blow through the defrost vents, but could not really be felt at the dash. We found an exit, pulled off, got a bite to eat, came back out, restarted the car and everything worked fine again. (Other than I'm pretty sure I felt a few drips of cold water on my ankle from somewhere under the steering column.) Thought it might be a one-off but it happened again the other day in town. Turning the car on and off did not help, but turning the AC on and off several times seemed to reset it.

I have heard that the culprit in this apparently very common issue is a bad evaporator temperature sensor, and that Ford has a TSB about it, and that the fix is an $11 part. Does anyone know anything about that?

I have also heard that the issue is low freon. If so, then that ticks me off, because the first guy on this forum to complain about the loud and nasty AC compressor noise common to every 2013 C-Max (audible only outside the vehicle) got more freon added by the dealer, but IIRC after that Ford said the sound was normal for a modern rotary compressor ("they all do that") and did nothing for others.

Ooh, can we get Pursuit Mode too? :wub2: 

Seriously though, they're really going to do Pursuit Mode with the same puny battery as stock? Now that EVs can pack 50% more range into the same size battery pack, they're not maybe going to upgrade the pack to better withstand the extra drain?  Color me doubtful about the wisdom of that.

That 0-60 time in Pursuit Mode is extra impressive because -- and I don't know if it's to do with weight or gearing or what -- the Fusion Hybrid always seemed pokier to me than the C-Max Hybrid...even more so when comparing the Energi versions, where the Fusion Energi feels downright slow. It might not all be my imagination. When the current Ford hybrid powertrain came out, I remember reading magazine tests and seeing the C-Max Hybrid tested with a 0-60 just over 7 seconds and the Fusion Hybrid just over 9. The C-Max Energi was just over 8 seconds; I don't remember seeing a figure on the Fusion Energi. I'm sure those are all magazine style tests (best run of several, traction control off).

Hate to revive an ancient thread but....has anyone figured out a lasting solution for this? Silicon spray worked once, for one day, and has been of no use since.

Yep, bearing problem on 2013s, Hybrid and Energi versions alike. My transmission started audibly failing quite early on and I had it replaced a few months ago (car now has about 62k). Apparently the trans was redesigned early into the 2014 model year to fix this issue, so the new trans is unlikely to fail.

I have thought about making the switch to an Energi and there are good deals on 2013 Energis, but after all the angst trying to get the dealer to acknowledge and act on the problem, I wouldn't buy one that hadn't already had the trans replaced, particularly since I don't imagine it's any easier to get warranty service when you're the second owner and didn't buy the car at your local dealer. 

 Their is a market for this smaller Hybrid vehicle but it would appear Ford doesn't have the desire in the US to keep the line going....yet, they will keep the C-Max in production in Europe.  I never understood why Ford released the C-Max with rear sliding doors in Europe and simply reported that model would never be offered in the US.  That one puzzled me because that could be the Feature that would make this vehicle take a serious run at the Prius...the vehicle Ford produced the C-Max to knock Prius off the top. I'd go for a New Max in a Flash as my second car if it were offered with rear sliding Doors.  Apparently Ford isn't listening....like I wrote, in the entire 2016 year...the year I purchased my C-Max, in my TampaBay area (makes up about 5 Ford dealerships)...the Combined Dealership yearly Inventory on the 2016 couldn't have been greater than 8 to 10 C-Max's.  Right now, that inventory for the 2017 model...is 3....and that has been so since early February.  

 

Maybe Ford will change its mind...they seem to be doing a lot of that recently....and keep this size Hybrid Vehicle in their 2019 or 2020 model year.    In the meantime, I think I might get a little more serious on the Kia Niro LX Model....I do like its Warranty and the car looks from the outside almost identical to the C-Max....just would have liked it with the CVT Transmission.     

Just got back from Europe. Pretty fair number of Ford B-Max, C-Max, Grand C-Max, and S-Max vehicles out there (that's the small, medium, large, and extra-large version of our car, respectively). The tall-hatch profile is very popular there because it's roomy without being long, which is important when trying to park in crowded city centers. The tall-hatch shape never really caught on in the US, but in Europe there's a tall-roof version of every Focus-class hatchback...just as the Focus also comes as the C-Max, the VW Golf also comes as the Golf Plus, the Renault Megane also comes as the Scenic (it's probably the most popular example of the breed), etc.

Interestingly, it appears the Scenic, now starting its fourth generation, will be shaped like a small CUV going forward. Like the US, Europe has gone crazy for the car-based small-SUV look. The Kia Niro should do great (in the US, anyway; it's probably got a little too much length for Europe).

350 amp chargers are coming to the US too: http://www.hybridcars.com/worlds-tallest-thermometer-high-power-charging-station-coming-to-california/

But it's unclear a) if any cars currently available can actually use them and b) if they'll become widespread.

I think this location - Baker, CA - is ideal: a high volume of cars doing the California to Vegas jaunt, which itself is a high speed long distance drive. So lots of people needing lots of charge pronto. But I don't see these mega chargers becoming common. And for battery life I don't know we'd want them to. They pump so much juice that IIRC the handles and cables have to be liquid cooled. That's got to be a lot of stress on the cells.

Is there a 110v EVSE supplied with the Bolt? How much current does it draw?

Yes, one is included. They use the same strategy as the Volt: it draws very low power (8 amps?) unless you manually change the setting to full power (12 amps?). This is so that people with old wiring or a garage fridge, etc don't keep tripping their breakers.

Headroom's great, much like the C-Max.

Well, I test drove an LT and a Premiere, twice each. Here's my impression:

1. Seats are really narrow and bolsters are really firm. Being able to feel the hard metal frame through the seat padding every time I slid into the car...not a plus.

2. Sound of base stereo is disappointing and sound of uplevel stereo is just OK. So identical to C-Max in this regard.

3. Interior materials quality is not as nice as the C-Max: fewer soft-touch surfaces, etc. The C-Max looks more expensive than it is inside; by contrast, the Bolt has an interesting look, not bad, but they obviously had to build to a price.

4. Motor Trend timed the car at 6.3 seconds to 60. I believe it. And it's so silent that it doesn't feel as fast as it is; there's no noisy engine drama, it's just abruptly going however fast you wanted.

5. Ride and handling are similar to the C-Max.

6. Interior width is narrower. Front and rear legroom is ample. Rear seats fold flat. Cargo compartment isn't as long but it is deeper: cargo sits below a lip rather than atop a hump as in the C-Max. And you can remove a false floor for even more depth.

7. Lots of active safety tech available if desired: lane keep assist, blind spot monitors, 360 degree around-view cameras, etc. But not the thing I want most: adaptive cruise control.

8. D.C. fast charge is a $750 option; it's sufficient in speed and availability to make the car suitable for road trips in many part of the country, including mine. It uses the SAE Combo standard like the Germans, not Chademo like the Japanese, and of course is not compatible with Tesla Superchargers. Most DCFC stations are 50 kW (vs Tesla at 125 kW), but that may change over time; Chevy says it will charge at 80 kW if you happen to find such a station, but doesn't state the max charge input possible.

8. Here's the killer though. There is no bargain lease pricing as we have come to expect from EVs. Being an early adopter will cost you.

For me, pricing isn't there yet, not when I lack positive equity in my trade. But I think it will be soon enough.

There are reasons not to buy a GM electric car, but "because of the EV1" is not one of them. GM *invented* the modern electric car with the EV1. They decided not to pursue it at the time, largely because battery technology was not sufficiently advanced. But without the EV1, there would *be* no Tesla; they would have not have had the inspiration and the template to follow.

Moreover, later on the Volt got people over their "but an affordable EV can't do a road trip" objections to *just try* electric propulsion, and discover they loved it.

GM also gave us the first EV hot hatch, the Spark EV with 400 lb feet of torque, and lease priced it below its gasoline sibling -- putting the lie to the idea that an EV could be fast like a Tesla or cheap like a Mitsubishi i-MiEV but not both.

In short, EV-based GM hate is misguided. We should encourage mainstream automakers to get on board with clean powertrains, not reject them when they do.

That said, GM ought to follow Nissan's lead and drop out of the main automakers lobby, because it's at cross purposes with the company's own electrification efforts.

So, the backstory: when my wife's Hyundai Veloster lease ran out, she leased a Fiat 500e electric vehicle in its place. The Fiat is hilariously fun to drive, with oceans of torque in a tiny rollerskate of a car. Wheee!  We plug it in at night and always have a full "tank" in the morning, and the fuel costs us $30 a month. My wife also appreciates that she never has to touch a nasty gas pump or deal with oil changes. And living near a freeway, I appreciate that we've taken one tailpipe off the road. 

At this point, if we could have two EVs, we would. (I can charge for free at work.)  But we need at least one car that can take us to the nearest big-city airport and back, without a pit stop to charge. That meant keeping the C-Max. Until now.

I'm in the wrong part of the depreciation curve for a trade, of course. If I can't make the sums work, I won't be completely heartbroken: I like my C-Max, and it mimics a fair bit of an EV's refinement by shutting off at stoplights and using electric power to keep the revs down. But I'm hoping...

So y'all, the first affordable 200+ mile pure electric vehicle is here: the Chevy Bolt EV. That's Bolt with a B.

The Chevy Bolt EV is EPA rated at 238 miles of range per charge---255 city, 215 highway---and manufacturer rated at 7 seconds 0-60 MPH. Reviewers have found both claims to be conservative: the car goes like a scared rabbit, and keeps right on going for more than double the range of any other affordable electric car.

It's priced starting a hair under $30,000 after the $7500 Federal EV rebate. That makes it functionally equivalent to a Tesla Model S 60 for half the price. And that puts it in a class of one for at least a year, when Tesla hopes to roll out their downsized Model 3.

The Bolt is a practical, potato-shaped tall wagon, very much like the C-Max but narrower. Think of it as a stretched Honda Fit, without the gasoline.

Production of the Chevy Bolt EV began November 4, 2016, with the first units scheduled for delivery in December. I have put a deposit down on one.

Anyone else?

Got the car back. Yes, those remaining grind and whomp sounds were due to a faulty wheel bearing, which they fixed almost immediately. The technician was the same one who had done the trans, and he was a little embarrassed to have missed it, since the original repair order basically just said to find and repair any grinding or whomping noises. All's well that ends well.  

That left just one unwanted noise: the creaky noise from the door frames. So I finally went to the auto parts store and bought silicone spray, and tried blasting the door weatherstripping with it. Miracle of miracles, the creaking is 99% gone! Wish I'd gotten off my duff and done that years ago. (Be warned, the slightest waft of wind will carry the spray everywhere, so you may want to plan on washing the car inside and out when you're done.)

Hot Potato, you first reported an issue in August 2015 at 39 k miles.  In August 2016 you were at 53 k Miles.  Did the noises get worse over time and thus easier to be "heard" by the dealer?   So, apparently it took over 14 k miles before the dealer agreed that there was a "noise" and that the TSB applied.  Why did it take 2 weeks to fix?  Was your car not drivable for 2 weeks until the new transmission came in?  It seems that once the diagnosis was made (that it needs new tranny), you could have driven it for an additional 2 weeks or so until the new tranny came in.  

 

I've got 75 k miles on my car and began hearing noises recently that I don't recall hearing about 5-7 k miles ago (4 - 5 months ago).  The noises are best described as small rocks rotating in a can (grinding) and a slight whirring / humming noise both when moving.  I will be putting on about 6 k miles between now and the end of the year.  I have a feeling that if I took my car to the dealer now, the dealer would say "they all do that".  So, by the first of the year, I should have over 11 k miles on since I began hearing the noises and about 81 k miles total on my car.  If the noises are worse in Jan. 2017 than now, I will make the trip to the dealer and follow your advice insisting the SA (and Tech) go for a drive with me.

I'm not sure what eventually made the dealer act: the fact the noise had grown loud enough to scare children on the sidewalk, or the fact I decided to sic Cujo -- er, Ford corporate on them. The first should get action for you, and if it doesn't, there's always the second. But your strategy of waiting til the volume is undeniable and having the tech ride with you is a good one.

If your dealer is like mine, they will take the transmission apart to look at the bearings and verify it is the source of the problem. No point in putting a bad trans back together and putting it back in, especially if Ford is renting the customer a car in the meantime.