raadsel

I'll admit, it is an adjustment with a hybrid. On a traditional car, the engine needs to be running for the car to be on. With a hybrid, the car is on once all the electronics are powered. You don't need an engine/motor to be "running" for the hybrid to be on and idling, and that just doesn't make sense to some people.

That isn't my understanding, though perhaps I'm missing something. My understanding is that the 12V battery turns on the cars computers, which in turn wake the other systems. Also, the HVB is electronically disconnected when the car is turned off; so the HVB is one of the systems woken up. Now I can accept that some sub-systems that turn on, when the car is started, are powered by the HVB but that they aren't technically part of the start up -- instead it tends to be things like the Climate Control system, or at least the A/C, which is powered by the HVB; but almost all other systems are powered by the 12V battery. Now, obviously, powering the car (either with the electric motor or starting the ICE) are accomplished with the HVB -- but that only happens after the car is turned on.

The 2017 vs. 2016 C-Max added the new Titanium model, along with Blind Spot Monitoring/Rear Cross-traffic Alert. Other than that one new option and the SEL being changed to Titanium (and dropping one of the option packages), the 2016 and 2017 do appear to be the same.

As I understand it, Volkswagen building EVs at their Tennessee plant is part of the settlement with the EPA for the Diesel scandal.

I'm sorry, I don't understand your complaint. What is the hybrid battery level when you turn the car off? As others have stated, the car is basically designed to do this -- to leave the hybrid battery empty when you arrive home, as it goes into EV+ mode to drain the battery for the last half mile or so before you arrive home. I think you'll also find the Prius, while maybe not being exactly the same, will also start a lot of the time in the morning when you start it. At least part of the reason for this is, when the engine does start in the morning, it stays on to warm the engine -- Ford is intentionally leaving the charge at a lower level when it sits overnight (better for the hybrid battery), particularly since it helps get the ICE up to operating temperature before you need the power. Further, it doesn't matter if you turn most of those things you mentioned off, or not, and the only one of those that even runs off the hybrid battery is the Air conditioner, the rest all draw their power from the 12V battery. Again, I funny understand why the dealership says the car is operating normally -- that seems to be true, at least as you've described the issue. You'll also likely face similar "issues" with most hybrids you buy -- while some don't "drain" the battery as you go home, like the C-Max does, they all are designed to turn on relatively soon when you start in the morning particularly if it is cool out (and you turn the heater on). If you aren't wanting the ICE to turn on, then I would suggest that you needed to buy a C-Max Energi instead of the hybrid, so you could plug it in and charge the hybrid battery.

I haven't tried to go terribly far (a couple of miles) but I'm in an area that, luckily, had minimal flooding. But definitely many of the freeways are flooded, and it is virtually impossible to make it across the city in a C-Max (or any car).

I thought my battery had died this morning. Keep in mind I am in Houston and this all occurred in the rain. I went out to my car, put my hand on the handle and nothing happened. I pulled my key fob out and pressed the button, still nothing. At this point, I'm thinking the battery is dead. I pull out the physical key but can't get it to turn enough to unlock the car -- it is hard to get leverage on that short key head. I'm guessing it needs some WD-40. I go back inside and grab the other key fob, thinking maybe the physical key in this fob will work better in the lock. I go out, and the car opens right up. Apparently between last night and this morning the battery in my key fob died. Annoying, but very glad I don't need to replace a battery when there is very little open, not to mention not having mail or other types of delivery.

I think I'd try a different Ford dealer, maybe change where I get my C-Max worked on. I ordered a Lithium jump starter, since I question how much longer my battery will last. Amazon claims it will be delivered today, and I hope it is, but with the weather I have my doubts.

What is the number in the lower right corner, between the wrench and the camera icons?

I'm not sure it gives no warning though I think the signs are different. In my case, I have noticed that my radio doesn't stay on as long once I turn the car off, and that it acts differently than it used to when I open the door in the morning. Before, the dashboard displays used to light and it would show the odometer. Now it seems that only the circular area of the Speedometer is lighting, it is no longer showing the odometer. I suspect this is meaning that I will need to replace the battery soon, that it is quickly starting to lose the necessary capacity.

I have the A7 in my 2013 C-Max and have had no issues. I'm curious what update was needed, unless it was the last 2nd gen MFT update that did not show up for many of us to upgrade to version 3.8. It seems, to me, that Ford should be paying for this either way. Either the fault was the GPS issue others have had, and is unrelated to the A7 card or it seems like this is an issue where he likely never had the option to upgrade to v 3.8 -- and those who did not have that option were supposed to be able to get their Ford dealer to install it for free.

What I saw of the Ioniq and Niro on Fuelly, before their database search became messed up, is that both cars seemed to be getting their EPA fuel economy numbers.

I think you are trying to over think this. Your diagram for Nissan is the basics of how the Sonata/Optima hybrids operate, though the below YouTube video shows the system and how it works. The primary difference is that the Hyundai has a second electric motor, a starter/generator, that starts the ICE and that also recharges the Hybrid Battery at times the engine is running but not connected to the traction motor, such as when the engine is warming when first started but the car is not moving. For the Ioniq/Niro, replace the automatic transmission with a DCT. Yes, it is three separate clutches, one between the ICE and Electric Motor and then the DCT -- I'm sorry I wasn't more clear, I did not think you needed it spelled out.

I could easily be wrong for the lack of response in sport mode on the Niro, it was just and odd thought and Kia may have had a different reason. However, the clutch does come into play -- the clutch and gears sit between the electric motor and the wheels. Again, Kia/Hyundai can get by with a smaller electric motor because it does not directly drive the wheels but goes through the transmission. On the Sonata Hybrid, with a regular transmission, it is not as efficient as a CVT but with the DCT it is close. It is an interesting system -- and helps appeal to those that don't like CVTs.

No, the electric motor is tied to the driveshaft, and is always "connected;" it is either propelling the car, with the ICE on or off, or it is generating electricity with the ICE propelling the car. As for the two clutches, one clutch is the odd gears (1,3,5) and the other the even gears (2,4,6); switching between the clutches as you go up in gears allows for faster shifting -- the gear is already selected, just needs the clutch closed. As for the DCT, you are thinking of a wet clutch design, which is what sports cars use. The dry DCT is typically limited to only about 184 lb. ft of torque but give better fuel economy.

Last night, for some odd reason, I started thinking of the automatic transmission in the Sonata/Optima hybrids; it is a largely normal automatic transmission but Hyundai realized they could remove the torque converter. Instead, the electric motor acts as a replacement for the torque converter. And it was thinking of adding torque, that made me realize I think I know the "acceleration issue" with the Niro/Ioniq. Of course, one issue with DCTs is that they are essentially an automatically shifted manual transmission. While you limit some of the wear by shifting them automatically, eventually the clutch plate is going to wear down. Hyundai realized they could largely prevent wear of the clutch plate in the hybrids, that with an electric motor they could keep the transmission in gear -- not apply the clutch -- when the car is stopped. The issue, if I understand correctly, is that Hyundai is using a dry DCT -- and this limits the amount of torque that can be applied, too much torque and the clutch will start slipping. Now, in Eco mode Hyundai retards the throttle response, so they are already limited torque. I'm fairly sure that Hyundai/Kia also limits the acceleration, even in Sport mode, to protect the transmission and to keep the clutch from slipping -- that the transmission cannot handle (or at least that Hyundai/Kia don't allow it to handle) the full amount of torque the electric motor can provide. Instead, they limit acceleration from a dead stop, and provide a nice steady acceleration curve that the DCT can easily handle.

I would be surprised if the Niro doesn't charge similarly to the C-Max with the ICE running, though I do seem to recall it having a smaller battery. Of course, as you point out, it also has a smaller electric motor. Additionally, the Hyundai's don't need as large an electric motor because of the transmission, since the transmission is between the wheels and the electric motor on the Niro, and not on the Prius or C-Max (or at least not the same way). The other issue, and I'm not sure how it works, is that the software in the Hyundai/Kia hybrids "learn" how you drive, to try and make them more efficient. Most of the time it works pretty well, though there have been a few cases, that I've heard about, where the car was getting "poor" fuel economy, at which point "resetting" the software fixed the issue -- basically the software "learned" wrong or the person changed their driving style. As for the C-Max, my understanding is the software has changed, multiple times. One was just to change the Max EV speed, but there was a different recall (and maybe more than one) that changed the way the software worked -- with various reports of better or worse fuel economy after the software was reprogrammed. It does seem to me that they have made various changes, in each model year, to improve the efficiency -- an obvious one is the rear window, where they have added and even modified the plastic panels on the window to improve the air flow. I'd be interested to see the EPA (which is technically Ford), CR, and others retest the C-Max. I will agree, the Ioniq/Niro are aimed at Prius drivers, not directly at the C-Max. I'm not sure Kia really hit the mark with the Niro, though it does sound like Hyundai has done a great job -- at least as a Prius competitor -- with the Ioniq. One of the oddities with the Niro, reviews I've seen indicate the lower trims, with smaller tires, actually drive better than the top of the line with larger tires -- they seem to have forgotten to "retune" the car with the larger tires. It will be interesting to see what kind of reliability they have.

Per Consumer Reports, "Using a precise fuel-flow measuring device spliced into the fuel line, we run two separate circuits. One is on a public highway at a steady 65 mph. That course is run in both directions to counteract any terrain and wind effects. A second is a simulated urban/suburban-driving test done at our track. It consists of predetermined acceleration, and deceleration rates, as well as idle time. Consumer Reports' overall fuel-economy numbers are derived from those fuel consumption tests." It would be interesting to know exactly what acceleration and deceleration rates they use, as well if they account at all for the battery charge while they run their tests.My guess, though, is that they accelerate and decelerate more in the way they believe the average American would. But their highway fuel economy test seems pretty accurate, at least for a non-modified C-Max using Cruise Control with the AC running on a 20 or so mile run (each direction); it is also what the EPA rates the C-Max at on the highway. I also believe that they have only used a 2013 C-Max for testing, and it could be their tests were done before some of the updates were made. I suspect if they used one of the new C-Max's that have "Eco Mode," that the fuel economy would look better as it would help retard their acceleration.

The interesting thing, the Prius has essentially the same drivetrain as the Prius; with the largest difference (beyond engine size) being the way the are programmed -- though actually the C-Max was originally programmed closer to the Prius (before they changed the top speed for EV only). In essence, the Prius should be driven like the C-Max to get the best mileage, other than not going into EV at highway speeds. The Niro/Ioniq with a 6 speed dual clutch transmission changes they way the operate, which changes the way they need to be driven. Additionally, regen appears to have been downplayed on the Niro/Ioniq, so if you aren't hitting the brake they are largely just coasting -- which if used right can really help fuel economy; though it does mean if you want to slow down and get regen, you need to press the brake. One interesting feature they built into the Ioniq EV, and I'd love to have something similar in a hybrid I owned, is to have paddle shifters that control the amount of regen. If I recall correctly (from reviews), the lowest level is similar to the way the Ioniq Hybrid is programmed, where you are largely coasting; the middle position would be closer to the way the C-Max is programmed, where you get a fair amount of regen but, if you want to stop, you need to step on the brake; and the highest level of regen is much like the Tesla, where the regen is powerful enough (or almost) to stop the car without pressing on the brake. It would be nice to be able to switch the regen, in the city, to the highest level but, for road trips, be able to basically coast -- particularly for larger hills.

As for your first point, you don't relearn how to drive when you buy a new car, you merely adjust your current knowledge to how the new car performs. You learn not to slam down the throttle on your V8 Mustang when you are trying to merge into traffic, etc. If you are a person that jackrabbits from stop lights, and accelerates toward red lights, only to stomp on the brake at the last minute, you are going to tend to do that with a Mustang, an F-150, or even a C-Max. Instead, there is a reason you felt the need to post a YouTube video showing how to drive a C-Max to get the best mileage, it requires you to "relearn" how you drive a car to be able to get the best mileage -- and this is true of any hybrid car. Those that don't bother to learn new techniques, like pulse and glide, aren't going to get the great fuel economy. And even people that are willing, many will never have the patience or interest to fully master the techniques. Now, you sure try to downplay what Wayne Gedes did; you claim they got some great aid from a tailwind but fail to acknowledge they drove in a great deal of bad weather in December -- and that the best temperatures they had tended to be in the 50s, at least after leaving SoCal. In fact, the tailwinds were because of the storms they hit, complete with rain and snow. At best, the tailwinds merely managed to not make the other effects of winter weather not as severe. And if they "did nothing" other than drive slow and have tailwinds, then their 76.6 mpg becomes even more impressive on a cross country trip. Of course, your first point and your second point contradict each other. You talk about having to "relearn" for each car and, the fact remains, you have learned how to drive a C-Max -- you've had a lot of experience with it. Yet you haven't had that same experience with the Niro, so it is unlikely you'll be able to get the same level of efficiency on a short drive, since you don't know the car. And that is ignoring that, on trips of less than a half hour or so, there are factors such as the state of charge of the battery and engine temperature that can greatly effect the gas mileage; a true comparison would require more than one (or even a few) short drives. Last, I've had people disagree with your characterization, the the electric motor only assists the ICE (at speeds above about 50, which is what you have said previously). While I don't know that for a fact with the Niro, I've seen others say that it will work at higher speeds. I also have others on the Ioniq that claim it does go into EV at higher speeds, though it is possible -- particularly with the Ioniq having a lower coefficient of drag -- that Hyundai set it up in software differently than Kia did the Niro, despite sharing the powertrain. I know at least one person who is having no issue getting 60 mpg from his Ioniq. Unfortunately, I seem to be unable to "search" Fuelly reliably right now -- particularly for the Ioniq and Niro, it isn't showing any of the US cars. Even trying to click on ptjones Fuelly banner, it comes up, "There was a problem accessing this vehicle." Fuelly's database appears to be having some type of issue.

But that is actually the point of reviewers MPG tests; most people don't want to "re-learn" how to drive a car. Instead, they want to get in the car and go, not worry too much about trying to get the best mileage, and still get good fuel economy. Looking at fuelly.com, the vast majority of C-Max owners have gotten between 38-43 mpg lifetime. It is also worth noting that 25 people on fuelly have reported 34 mpg lifetime in their C-Max, and there are also people who have lower lifetime averages. I'm finding it hard to get a good comparison for the Niro -- under "Research Vehicles" (or "Browse Vehicles") the Niro shows twice -- one with 56 cars and the other with only 12 (and all European owners) -- but, when you hit either link, it takes you to the 12 Niro cars with European owners. It does seem, from what I recall, that most people with the Niro are averaging between 44-46 mpg; we just don't have a good idea of what is capable at the extreme high end of the Niro, outside of Wayne Gerdis' testing.

My best guess is that you didn't fill the car up quite as full. Maybe the pump was on a slight incline, or maybe the pump shut off a bit early, there are any number of things that causes you not to "fill" your tank.

I went to Cars>Hybrids>Reliability and Rankings, ending up here. Of course, you can click on the name of each car to get to their rating and review pages.

As for cargo space Cargo Area Rear Seat down Toyota Prius 24.6 Hyundai Ioniq 26.5 56? Kia Niro 19.4 54.5 Ford C-Max 24.5 52.6 For some reason, I can't find the numbers for the Prius or the Ioniq with the rear seats down. I do remember seeing a number for the Ioniq, at one point, and it was bigger than the Niro, which surprised me -- I believe around 56 cu. in. I'm guessing the Prius would likely be somewhere between the C-Max and Niro, with the seats down it should add about 30 cu. ft. of space. While the Ioniq, because it does not have the height seems like it shouldn't be as large, it is a few inches longer. By contrast, the Niro being shorter makes the cargo capacity a bit smaller. Two notes: 1) the Ioniq does have more cargo capacity but will have issues with large square boxes that the C-Max and Niro would have no issue with and 2) the Niro and Ioniq both have space under the load floor -- while a spare tire kit is not included, it is available, fits under the load floor, and the mounts are built into the cars. So, the C-Max is not the smallest in only cargo (rear seats up) capacity, that would be the Niro, but technically may be the smallest with the rear seats down -- though not by enough to make any real difference. I think Kia made a mistake by making the Niro so short, it seems like it would benefit, quite a bit, by another 4-6 inches in length. Of course, I say the same thing about the C-Max.

There test numbers seem odd to me, if just because most reviews I've seen that compare the Ioniq/Niro to the Prius give better ride/handling scores to the Korean pair; so it seems odd to me that Consumer Reports rates the Prius better. I guess a lot of it ends up being personal preference. I think the real test will be how they score next year, after they have owner feedback and the first year reliability. The other note of interest is fuel economy -- the Ioniq roughly equals the Prius fuel economy with 52 mpg overall in testing, the same as the Prius -- it was one mpg lower in city testing, at 42 mpg, and one mpg higher in highway fuel economy, at 60 mpg. Apparently it does do a decent job of living up to is EPA ratings. The Niro has more issues, finishing only 43 mpg overall, with only 33 mpg in the city but 52 on the highway. In comparison, the C-Max only got 37 mpg in CRs testing, 35 in the city and 38 on the highway. To make a chart of fuel economy: in MPG Overall City Highway Toyota Prius 52 43 59 Hyundai Ioniq 52 42 60 Kia Niro 43 33 52 Ford C-Max 37 35 38