blaquetung

Hi Paul, Thanks for paying attention and replying to my thread. Considering your second comment, I wasn't indicating that engine knocking was occurring. Even optimized combustion yields a variety of products. And since the fuels are changing, the percentage combustion and products will change (for example increased acetaldehyde from ethanol). I was assuming that processes other than ECM timing are engineered into the car to help complete combustion (other than the catalytic converter), and that these may have been optimized for a particular fuel. In reply to your third comment, I was simply comparing fuels at the point of existence, not their "Well-to-Wheels" analysis. But you are right, how the ethanol is formed, and the impurities within, are important. Argonne National Laboratory actually has created an amazing program that I was previously unaware of and that would answer darn near every question I can even pose, called GREET 2015. It can be found at https://greet.es.anl.gov/greet/ You can actually look at the "Well-to-Wheels" analysis of hundreds of different car types and the fuels they use and the amount of Energy and Pollutants (Volatile Organics, carbon monoxide, NOx radicals, PM10, PM2.5, etc.). So, for example, you can directly compare an ICE using E10 vs. an HEV using E10 (Lithium Ion or Nickel Metal Hydride). And, you can even single effects of components such as body, tires, and fluids! Also, if you go to slide 25 in the following presentation, ( http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/580.pdf) it seems that although Hill, et. al. made some good points, ethanol does show a positive net energy balance in most research which I think supports ethanol fuel (especially cellulosic ethanol). Hill's previous paper is listed in the graph. Brendan

The focus of this discussion has been one of fuel economy; however, use of fuels without oxygenated additives (in this case ethanol) are much poorer at limiting release of volatile components. So, although using E0 fuels may yield slightly better fuel economy (which 'may' have a slight economic benefit), it is an environmentally destructive choice. I think the other comment earlier may also be correct, that higher octane gasoline than the car is rated for leads to incomplete combustion. So the best balance of Environment/Economics/Efficiency is probably E10 or E15.

And thanks for the math catch. I should have thought more about simply averaging the two rates.

:-) Amazing logic! If you want the dealer to bug off about certain milestones to sell things, just flip back and forth between miles and kilometers. They won't convert and you can save their breath. So, "dumb question" here, what are the metric equivalent terms for mileage? Example one, "mileage" for an oil change would be termed? Example two, "mileage" for fuel efficiency would be termed?

Right, I think going up was something like 25 MPG. So, average 400 and 25 and you get roughly 213 MPG round trip. I guess best would be to have the Energi and live at a lower elevation than work. Use up the battery and switch to gas on the way to work. Capture energy the whole way home and charge less.

Thanks for the patent information. That was awesome. Also, since hybrids have so much variability in MPG based on combinations of gas or electric battery, it is worth considering when deciding on moving to a new area. I live in Illinois and frequently drive a fast, long, flat stretch. Not so good for MPG. I was floored to see the MPG I was getting in Colorado. When I drove from Leadville, CO to Denver, CO, which is like 100 miles, I got something on the order of 400 MPG. If I move residence, I'll take a look topographically at the route to work. The more hills or elevation changes to work the better!

I had something very similar occur in my car, only it didn't occur while driving. I never could get the gas engine to start, so the Li-ion battery took quite some time to drain. The problem was the starter battery had been drained. You may want to check your starter battery, or have the new CSP run. Luckily, your car did start again and maybe the starter battery recharged, but it could be a sign it will happen again soon.

fcforce, I feel for you for being told what seems to be a lie. As a fairly early adopter of a C-MAX, I have gone through the multiple early updates as many others have. Hopefully the person that turned your car in just couldn't wait for the initial run through of updates (or downgrade in mpg). The only issue that I potentially still have is the dead starter battery, but I'm hoping that my latest TSB update takes care of it. Even if it doesn't, so far it has died once a year (twice total) and only needed to be replaced once. I bought a jumper battery for the car now just in case. After considering the price of taxes in selling and buying a new car and the depriciation of value, it would take a lot of dead batteries for it to be monetarily beneficial for me to sell the car. I plan on getting over 200,000 miles out of this car. Even if it took 8 starter batteries to do so, I'm looking at $800 or so total and a once a year inconvenience of jumping it. Other than that, I really do love the car and would buy it again. Actually, my parents also bought one and have had no problems at all (another 2013 SEL). In the future, I'm pretty intrigued by the Chevy Bolt concept.

I have a 2013 Ford C-MAX SEL 303A (sunroof, remote start) I purchased May 18, 2013. I ordered it, so it was built a week or two earlier. I live in northwestern Illinois and have amassed 49,500 miles. On March 25, 2014 my car was fixed at the dealer. My remote start had stopped working earlier in the week and when I went to start my car in the morning the engine did not start but all of the electronics did. A tow truck towed it to the dealer where the large battery eventually drained since I couldn't turn the electronics off. The starter battery was switched and the canister purge valve was also replaced. On April 6, 2015 my car was again fixed at the dealer. I had setup an appointment the prior week because my radio was frozen "off". The button to turn the radio registered touching on the screen, but the radio (and all voice commands) would never work. Before my scheduled appointment, the car died one morning and there was no sign of power. I got it jumped after two attempts and brought it to the dealer. The starter battery was still good. I had TSB 14-0115 run (thanks forum) and hopefully this fixes the problem. After the update, it seems that the car powers down more quickly after turning it off.