kuklachica

You paid for Ford to develop the C-Max, not Ford shareholders. Here's where several billion tax payer dollars went in 2009. From 2012:

Good luck Cmax16. My 2015 had body panel alignment problems and a leak that I could hear when driving, coming in somewhere at the front under trim. Ford called out an engineer (who didn't even look for it). Our case got escalated up to the executive office and we received word that Ford will be sending us a buy back offer. Feel free to message me if you can't get anywhere with your dealer and I can give you some pointers on how to navigate through your interactions with Ford. I found this article I found very interesting. https://www.cars.com/articles/2010/12/touring-fords-michigan-assembly-plant/

She. And, yes, I learned about car salesmen the hard way. Ford just called and has offered a refund. Thank you again to those who had words of advice while we were navigating this situation.

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/5043-running-water-sound-upper-front-right-windshield-a-pillar-area/

I had been here for help when I was trying to figure out what was wrong with the car. I thought I'd give an update to the situation. I know I have found it very helpful when searching for topics and being able to see the outcome rather than wondering "what was the resolution?". There have been other people with the same leak problem who posted in this forum, but never posted the outcome and Ford's solution. At least others with these defects will see how Ford has handled the situation in the past. My parents had three blown Explorere engines in under 2,000 miles and Ford shrugged their shoulders. Same response in our situation. I have owned Toyotas, Nissan, Volvo, and Subaru. They have all been in for service in 20 years less than our Ford has in two monts. I'm willing to take the chance on a different brand at this point. My own personal preference; I don't expect my story to influence anyone else. Thank you to those who have actually provided advice; your suggestions were very helpful.

Expecting others to do their jobs correctly is making their lives miserable? Does everyone who refuses to give their money to Chick-Fil-A lead a stressful, difficult life? Are they making the lives of Chick-Fil-A executives miserable? Or is boycotting Chick-Fil-A principled? I have lead a difficult life this past year, thank you. We had to leave our house and all of our belongings because we discovered rot in the walls from bad construction 10 years earlier (we are second owners). We have no legal recourse whatsoever and have lost everything and do not have a home. When I discovered my car had similar manufacturing issues and a leak, I sure as heck was not going to sit back and wait to find our how bad it was. Thank goodness for all those who made Ford "miserable" and paved the way for recalls, even when Ford dismissed their complaints. This is not public school. I'm not obligated to go to one dealer who sells one brand because I live in a certain part of town. I can give my money to whomever for whatever I want. And I will be happy when I have a car that isn't at the dealer every 8 days and the manufacturer telling me to pretend the problems do not exist.

It's not so much the car itself, but the experience we've had dealing with corporate. I never will willing put myself in a position of ever having to possibly deal with Ford hierarchy again. No car is worth dealing with such irresponsibility. The tipping point came with the engineer's findings. Here is a summary of my conversation with the Ford "exec", which I sent for documentation purposes. She has not responded to correct any of my details. I am not copying it here to change anyone's mind, just to show the reason for my frustration. I am not proud of the tone and sarcasm in my email. I was extremely frustrated. She did not look over the original 15 days of repairs, so her decision was made based on evaluating the issues as isolated events. We do not have the money, time, nor is my health strong enough to pursue a lemon law claim. I don't want a Ford replacement anyway, so it's just not worth my limited energy. Ford's current recommendations: 1. Realign rear right door 2. Realign hatch 3. Realign hood 4. Ignore water leak 5. Ignore excessive body flex (most likely the cause of alignment issues) If recommended repairs are completed: Number of doors realigned: 3 Hatch realigned: Twice Hood realigned: once Fender realigned: once Bent c pillar repaired: once Water leak repaired: NO Body flex addressed: NO Ford is recommending that a door, hatch, and hood be re-aligned. Previous repairs have already included opposite door re-alignment and hatch re-alignment. In the first 18 days of ownership, it required 15 days of re-alignments and paint repairs. Now our vehicle requires additional days for re-alignment. When I asked if it is within Ford’s quality standards to require over 20 days of re-alignment and paint work beginning at 79 miles and within 2 months of ownership, you said that it is all under warranty. I take this as a yes. Ford is unwilling to find the water leak that can be clearly heard under normal vehicle operation. They are unwilling because the water is not collecting in an easy-to-find location. You stated that the leak is not a concern, then later stated the opposite that water leaks are not characteristics of any vehicle (referring to the Ford Edge recall). Your lack of concern is contrary to the opinions I have received from several body shop technicians, car dealers, and ---- Ford. We have been warned of rust, mold, and damaged side-curtain airbags. Ford encourages me to continue driving the car until these issues manifest themselves, regardless of the fatal consequences that rusted metal and rotted airbags will have. It is clear that Ford’s mission: “improving quality is a daily priority at Ford….Ford always aims to increase customer satisfaction” is little more than hyperbole. The opposite is true. It seems that it is not uncommon for Ford to ship poorly assembled vehicles and require owners to make repeated trips to dealerships to repair Ford’s poor quality workmanship. We bought a Subaru Forester two days prior to the C-Max. We have not had to make one trip for service or repairs. Apparently I set my expectations for Ford ownership too high. We also request compensation for our car being out-of-service for 23 business days. Neither of the loaners we were given had the features that we paid extra for in our C-Max. We have been paying for features that have been unavailable to us for a significant portion of our ownership. Our last loaner was not a hybrid. Please see below for my understanding of the Field Service Engineer’s findings. Please advise if I have remembered something incorrectly. We requested to meet with the FSE to show him these issues in person, but were denied. We request a copy of the FSE report. 1. Dripping/trickling sound coming from front of car at 45+ MPH with active precipitation. The FSE could not reproduce this because there was no precipitation. The service department could not find a wet area inside the car when the problem was active. The service manager and two technicians all heard the trickling noise. However, it is Ford’s position that because no damp area was located in the car, the leak does not warrant further investigation. You also stated that you did not hear the sound in the recording (you are the first person not to hear it). When I mentioned that it could be leaking behind the A pillar trim, into the dash, under the carpet, or into the side-curtain airbags, you were not concerned with this. When I asked if I am supposed to wait until the car becomes moldy, rusts out, or the airbags fail before Ford will address the issue, you offered me an extended warranty. It is my understanding that Ford will not investigate the leak any further because it requires too much labor, and encourage me to ignore the leak until it causes health or safety problems. An extended warranty is redundant in this situation. We froze our express warranty rights by bringing the vehicle on 12/17/15 by notifying the dealer of the leak with approximately 1000 miles. 2. Loud road/wind noise, especially on drivers side at 45+ MPH The FSE said that this could not be reproduced. 3. Inconsistent alignment gaps between hatch and body sides (pointed out to us by Scott, owner of Hillside Collision Center in Waldoboro). The hatch had previously been significantly out of alignment and cockeyed. Inconsistent gaps still remain after repairs. Unsure what FSE findings were for this. 4. ** Noticeable body flex resulting in altered panel gaps. **Body panel gaps are altered depending on the ground the car is parked on. Minor changes in terrain cause doors to close more difficultly and hatch gaps to shift. The FSE could only reproduce this when parking two wheels on a curb. We had the same results when parking in our garage and then parking in our paved driveway (flat terrain). 5. Rear passenger side door is not flush with body panel Ford has offered to re-align this door. (This would be the second door that needed alignment. Both rear doors have been mis-aligned and difficult to close). 6. Gouges behind hatch hinges not present until repairs were made at Prime Ford FSE was able to find these. 7. Rough/gritty paint near right hatch hinge that was not repaired by Prime Ford. FSE stated he could not find this spot, despite the above picture. 8. Hood out of alignment, pointed out to us by the collision center. One side was resting flush on the headlight. We adjusted the hood bumpers but still cannot align it evenly. FSE found this and Ford has recommended re-aligning it.

See the resemblance?

For me it would have been something better than the turning radius of a hippopautamus.

The engineer finally showed up on Thursday. Apparently he can't meet with the owner, or even tell the service manager any details because, to quote him, "they may try to bribe me." (eye roll). He inspected it for about 3 hours. The only thing he did tell the service manager was that he did find things that were on my list and were problematic. So, what this means for Ford's next move, I'm not sure. We are supposed to learn about his findings on Tuesday. I really want to move on to another manufacturer, but we are in a difficult situation and may not have any options other than whatever Ford offers us. I won't be replacing it with a C-Max, however. I have been encouraged to choose a different model by a friend who is in a position to know Ford quality, inside and out. He confirmed my hesitation with jumping back on the C-Max bandwagon.

Nope, on a Tuesday, but not shipped until the first shipment after Labor Day.

Ford Executive Office has taken over our case. For those unfamiliar, here is the background. We purchased a C-Max SE on November 23rd. On November 24th, we returned to the dealership to notify them of numerous problems, including (but not limited to) misaligned panels, road noise, exposed primer, crooked hatch, loose weather stripping, and more. The dealership had the car from November 27th until December 11th. The hatch remains misaligned and paint damage is still present. We will be returning to the dealer to again ask them to address these issues. On December 17th, we drove it in the rain (heavy mist) for the first time. At speeds of 45 MPH and above, there is a loud sound of dripping water in the cabin at the front of the car. It is very pronounced and can be heard clearly during normal vehicle operation. We brought the car to Brunswick Ford service department where the service manager and two technicians also heard the trickling sound. They were unable to locate the leak. The next step is to remove the dashboard and adjacent trim. The manager stated that they may not be able to find the source since the necessary speed and weather conditions cannot be reproduced in the shop. He also mentioned the risk of mold growth if the leak was unable to be located. Brunswick Ford service manager has been WONDERFUL to work with (the complete opposite of our experience with the selling dealership). Recording of the dripping sound here https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw4qlYfTlmbGWVI2OHhaSF9pYlE The regional rep and her assistants were rude and unresponsive. The selling dealership did not communicate with us at all regarding the repairs. We had to hire a lawyer in order to get them to update us on the status of the repairs (they didn't even start the repairs until the 6th day the vehicle was in their possession). We asked for a letter confirming that the car was not in an accident at the dealership or in transit (in case we are asked at a future trade in). They agreed in exchange for not filing a complaint with the state. Over a month later and we still have not received a letter. Ford executive office is now handling the case. They have arranged for a field service engineer consult. We were told he would be inspecting the car on Tuesday 1/12. We dropped it off Monday night. He didn't show up on Tuesday, nor did he call the dealership. Same thing today (Wednesday). I wondered if maybe he had to drive a Ford two hours to get here, which would explain being MIA. When the service manager finally got a hold of our contact at the executive office, she called the engineer. Apparently he thought he was supposed to look at the car tomorrow (Thursday). I am not even surprised anymore with what Ford manages to mishandle. We will be pursuing a lemon law claim after this visit. I have done/am doing everything within my ability to secure a replacement vehicle. Thus far, it has been like getting blood from a stone. Now that we have reached our state's lemon law days-out-of-service threshold, we will take the next step to move forward with the legal claim. This experience has really made me think twice about even wanting to stay with Ford. I can't even imagine the next 10 years of Ford ownership (typical length we own a car before buying new). Attached is the log of service visits thus far. It is currently in the shop again for an undetermined length of time.

We've had our C-max back for less than a week. Still under 1,000 miles. Drove it for the first time in rainy weather today; it was a heavy mist (no rain drops). When I got to 60+ mph, I heard a loud dripping sound coming from the passenger side mirror area. It sounds like a very bad dripping faucet. The drops sound like they are dripping into a puddle, not "splatting" on a hard surface. We brought it to our local Ford dealership (NOT the one we bought it from). Two techs and the service manager all heard it. They couldn't find the source or the water itself, and said that the whole dash area would have to be torn apart to find what is going on. Even then, they said they might not be able to find it since they can't re-create 60 mph rainy conditions in the shop. Video below is of the drip sound today (please ignore the bags, etc. in the car). I knew this would happen. The alignment and paint problems were the tip of the iceberg. We bought it on 11/23 and it went back to the dealership on 11/27 and returned to us 12/11. We just went through a water and mold nightmare with our house. No way in heck am I going through that again with a car. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw4qlYfTlmbGWVI2OHhaSF9pYlE

Got the car back. The dent is better, door closes better. Painted areas on the hatch have runs and/or ruts (?) and are noticeable. They didn't repair the rough paint. They also gouged the area where the hatch and roof meet (and didn't repair them). I am so frustrated with this dealership. I don't know what to do at this point. They told me only three things were under warranty, and the rest was on the dealership to repair (this is consistent with what I've been hearing from Ford). So, it seems like it is out of Ford's hands? I just don't know what I should do at this point. It's so frustrating that it goes in for repairs, and comes out with new problems.

Some quick responses to recent posts: -- I did not pay close attention to the doors closing at the dealership. I did have all the doors open to move stuff from one car to the C-Max (all pillows and cushions, nothing that could get caught in a door and dent the pillar). I can't remember if I closed them all or if the salesman closed some. If I did close it and had to re-close it, I didn't pay attention. It never occurred to me to have to test doors of a new car, or inspect for paint damage along every inch of the interior and exterior. Lesson learned, unfortunately. -- I have been nice, but also assertive. I think that comes across negatively to some people. I definitely haven't sugar-coated anything, though. The service department had definitely been talking about us before we dropped the car off two weeks ago. When we dropped it off, the service manager said to me, "I heard you have Lyme disease." He went on to tell me that his wife has been struggling with it and is really not doing well, and her doctors have been useless. So, I shared some of my experiences battling Lyme, which, apparently, were very similar to what his wife is going through. He asked for some doctor recommendations. I compiled a list of doctors in his area and sent it to him that night. I found a couple of more names and sent them to him the next day. I also offered to answer any questions his wife might have because I know what it's like to feel scared and alone in this battle. A few days later, I sent him a few more doctors' names I had found. Tomorrow, when we get our car back, I am going to give him a book (to keep) about Lyme treatment. I hope my willingness to help shows the dealership that I am not trying to be petty. I think I have done more than what the average customer (in any store) would do if they were in this situation and treated this poorly by the owner. I am just not willing to have to "pay" for someone's incompetence (factory, or transit, or dealership). We have dealt with this same issues with our house this year (lived here for 2.5 years, only 10 years old). This summer we discovered mold INSIDE the wall of a bathroom, and, upon remediation and repair, found extensive construction defects throughout the whole house and involving every aspect of the frame. Our inspector missed the red flags, and we didn't know what to look for at the time of purchase. After dealing with that this summer, we are now very careful not to put ourselves in a similar situation again (yes, we should have caught a few of the car problems before we brought it home, but our experience with inspectors has shown that they can miss the obvious, too). Hence, my insistence on thoroughly repairing and documenting the defects/damage on our car. -- We are getting the car back tomorrow. I will definitely be inspecting every inch, driving it, and bringing it to another auto body shop (since I obviously don't know what to look for)

And those aren't even all of the problems. Is there supposed to be a whiny electrical sound 90% of the time when driving? You can kind of hear it faintly when you come to a stop (in the loaner) but it was nearly constant in my car.

The door still didn't close even when we left the other doors open (I thought of it being airtight, too). Thanks for the alignment/something caught in the door idea. That makes sense. That was simple enough to explain. Why couldn't the dealer take the time to explain it to me? The unreturned calls were all prior to hiring a lawyer. I think I have. If not, here it is again, along with one of the places worn to the primer (and clear-coated) and a close-up, detached wiring gasket, dirt in the paint.

The dealership owner became angry because I called the state DMV (oversees dealer licensing) and hired a lawyer. Our lawyer put together a letter with our requests (documentation, repairing all defects that we found, 3rd party assessment of their repairs). After he talked with the owner's lawyer, the owner changed his mind and "allowed" us to keep the loaner until our car is done. They said last Thursday that it would be done on Friday of last week. Once they finally looked closely, they then changed it to Wednesday of this week. They will have had it for almost 2 weeks. About 66% 75% of the time we've owned it has been spent at the dealership. Yes, I have been in contact with Ford since the beginning. They have been completely unhelpful. Since the dealership never called to update us on repair status, I only know third-hand through Ford what repairs were going to be completed. According to the regional rep, "...there are 2 small spots on the inside of the hatch, the right tail lamp assembly is not quite lined up and the left door is also off a little bit." So, until I hired a lawyer, they were only going to repair these items (no mention of the dent, cockeyed hatch, etc). I sent the regional rep the list of defects and received no acknowledgement. I sent the list to the dealer and owner numerous times, no response. I went over the list with the regional rep's supervisor, he told me his department "doesn't deal with the technical mechanical stuff." I've spoken with the regional rep and her supervisor, as well as the rep in this forum. Ford took 3 days to return my calls (despite their policy of returning calls within 4 hours) and the rep here has only responded to me once (I have sent her several questions when my calls were not returned). They know that the dealership had been dragging their feet, but they say they can't do anything about it. They did a "good faith review" of the situation, and determined it does not qualify for a replacement, at this time. The regional rep said to go ahead and trade it in for another vehicle if I don't feel comfortable with/want the car. Ford undermined their reliability by sending out a vehicle that had several cosmetic and functional defects. The dealer fails to find these defects in the various inspections upon delivery to the lot, before purchase, etc. The dealer then will not do all of the repairs, fails to call us or return emails for updates, and tries to take back the loaner. Ford says they cannot do anything about any of this. And then Ford suggests I trade in the car for another one. So, they are happy to make thousands of dollars off of me because of Ford's own quality control incompetence (depreciation, plus whatever they would deduct because of all of their own defects, and a new car). This is the worst experience I have ever had with a car, and by far the worst customer service I have ever had the misfortune of dealing with. Once this is over, I will be sure to share my experience with Ford and the dealership on BBB, yelp, google, etc. BIG R - the door doesn't close slowly; it hardly closes at all. See a video clip of it here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw4qlYfTlmbGTElSNDlXS1VmRUU/view?usp=sharing

The dealer has refused to provide a loaner for the remainder of the repairs. So my car has been on the shop since Friday, 11/27. As of yesterday they hadn't done any work on it. No communication or updates about the status of repairs. GM's voicemail box was full. I requested a letter stating that the work was not being done due to an accident and that it had not been in an accident at the factory, in transit, or at dealer. The documentation would be used for future trade-in or sale, in case it some how shows up on carfax or repairs are noticeable. The dealership's response was to take back the loaner because it was given out of "kindness and courtesy". So now I won't be able to get to my medical appointments during the next ??? days (whenever they decide to start work on it). Great service, Ford. Send a car to a dealership with lots of workmanship defects, avoid confirming that it wasn't in an accident, and punish the customer by taking back loaner. Dealership and Ford both know I have active medical complications. Great strategy to assure customer satisfaction, Ford.

I admit, I get hung up on the "little thing" of my rear passenger door not closing completely (it always sounds like the window is open several inches). The dent in the c-pillar seems to trip me up, too. I also can't seem to "get past" the "little thing" of the hatch sitting cockeyed and not closing completely, nor the patches of missing paint along with dirt in the paint. I've tried to make peace with the fact that the two auto body shops I've brought it to say that these "defects" looks like accident damage. It is a shortcoming of mine that I have reservations about being sold a car with three miles that has more damage than my 2005 trade-in did (and that I never considered a new car would be in worse condition). I should just grin and bear it and hope-to-God that the robots who put the wheels on were having a better day than the rest of the assembly line that day.

Yes, I learned my lesson with not inspecting a car first. It didn't occurr to me to that I would have to inspect a new car. I guess I was naive. Not blaming the salesman. The observation was to illustrate that there might have been knowledge on the dealer's part and they wanted to get the car off their hands.

Picture of side that has closing issues. Weird paint around "Ford" symbol?

Thanks, everyone, for your input; I appreciate it. So, the dealer acknowledges these things are problems. They are "fixing" them now, and have given me a loaner C-Max. They have opened a case with Ford. They've put their foot down when I've asked for a replacement. How hard should I push? I know it's my problem now. I felt pressured to buy this car. I wanted to look at the other one they had on the lot, but the salesman pretty much refused. Even told me it was a 2016 (which I later found out it wasn't). Told me it was too much and had no discount. I needed a car (we had already sold our other) and was over a barrel. I felt pushed into this one, even though I wanted to look at the other. It makes me more and more uneasy as I think of the whole transaction. Would a twisted unibody be visible while it was up on the lift? They eye-balled it with a flashlight and declared it "fine". Should I be leery?

The car was assembled on a Wednesday. Safety concerns i.e. did these defects indicate an accident? Twisted frame? If the exterior had this many defects, did the mechcanical parts also have similar poor quality workmanship? Did the dented c pillar affect the structure, or indicate a weld repair weak spot? Why were these things missed during QC inspection? Were other defects missed during QC inspection?

Is there a way to run the VIN without spending $50 for one report? I haven't been able to figure out a way. Also, is there a way to figure out what day of the week it was built? I know it was built in Michigan in Sept. 2015, but that's it. I've brought it to a shop, but the local dealership contracts out to them. We live in a small town, with other surrounding small towns, so it is hard to find a GOOD shop that isn't already used by a local dealership. Right now our car is at the dealer and we have a loaner.