livesmith

I'm guessing you haven't tried this procedure for more than ten minutes and you're going to be pretty disappointed at the drive in. At least that's how mine is. What you describe gives me ten minutes then powers itself off to "save power". Then I can turn it on again for another ten minutes and it powers off. At that point I have to actually "start" the car (and the headlights will be on) to get anything more out of the sound system.

I think the only way I'd take the C Max to the drive in would be planning on disconnecting the headlights.

I wish you luck. I took it to my local dealer for the GPS problem and it was just one thing after another dealing with them when it should have been so simple.

So when I needed the cell modem update recall done I tried a dealer over an hour away with a better reputation.  Better than the first but still a couple issues dealing with them.(though they did at least succeed in replacing the modem which is why I went there where as the first dealer failed above and beyond.)

The dealer frustration was the only reason I went so far as to spend $100 on an iffy ability to apply a patch to my car since the dealer would probably charge almost as much.(which should amount to 15 minutes of work from someone who knows what they are doing).

I have better luck sometimes at local shops.  You might try calling around and seeing if any of them have the Ford IDS software for programming/updating modules.

Yeah it's not the sync software it's the actual module software. The IDS stuff that you need a programmer and the Ford software to do. It's been quite a while since I did it but as I recall I paid around $100 for the adapter and software on eBay. Really only cause I was so fed up with the dealer. It was super sketchy involving a virtual machine and a trial day on Ford software. And Ford's software makes windows 3.1 look futuristic. REALLY unintuitive in any way.

But basically every single thing in your car is a module and has its open version of software/programming. The Ford software found a new version for my GPS module, I downloaded that, then updated it on the car and it's been good since.

I would definitely recommend just trying to find a dealer with half a brain (I've yet to succeed there) and see if they will just update your GPS module software.

I have just discovered that, intermittently, the central NAV arrow sits slightly above or below the road I am on.   I'm assuming the warranty is over for this GPS module (car purchased March 2014). 

You probably just need a software update for the GPS module.(Which in Ford world apparently gets the module a new part# even if no hardware is changed).

My 2013 Energi was showing as far as another road with an entire divided highway between it and the road I was actually on.(but only intermittently)

Dealership was idiotic in about a half dozen ways and told me that there was no problem(even though they didn't drive it as far as I told them to see the error) and that if I DID want them to continue to look at it, I'd need to buy a map update for $180(even though our roads haven't changed in 20+ years).

The short of it is that I ended up doing the software update myself and mine has been trouble free ever since.

So, on a related topic, has anyone actually found some way to noticeably enhance the lighting?  Now that we're back to the shorter days, and especially after driving the minivan(with standard halogens) I notice how very NOT great the C-Max headlights and foglights are...

I've contemplated hooking up one of those LED light bars, but with the battery in the trunk I'm not entirely sure how I'd get the wiring hooked up.  Let alone that I'm always hesitant with the drilling holes and things.

I'm wondering if there are some replacement/retroft LED headlight bulbs that might not be too expensive and make a significant difference.

Probably just some Sync glitch.

As far as replacing the GPS Module, My best guess is that a dealer might charge $200-300.

But, as far as the real world, I recall the module being about $30-50, and would take maybe half an hour to swap for anyone familiar with the dash(you pull the gauge assembly, then the module.  I think you might need to plug into the computer for a minute before and/or after as well.)

Yep.  If you've got an ACC mode then that might work.  But on my Energi the only way to keep the radio on for more than 20 minutes(2 separate 10 minute sessions) is to leave the car "ON".  And I've got DRL's which there is no way to turn off when the car is ON.  So mine is pretty useless for the drive-in.  

I'd have to either bring a portable radio or I might install a couple relays to kill the power to the headlights.

With my Energi if I got it there with a good charge in the battery it should stay pretty silent.  But I'm guessing you'll have periodic ICE starts as the HV gets low.

Just curious does plugging in charge Hybrid portion too? :)

 

Paul 

Yeah, it's just one big battery that's split in software.

So, on an Energi if you're down in hybrid mode, you might be around 15% actual SOC on the battery. You plug in and you'll fill up the hybrid battery and maybe be at 20% actual SOC, and the car will then show you as having reached 0% of the EV portion of the battery.  Then it continues until it gets to 100% which is about 95% actual SOC.

 

And it remains odd to me that Energi users are so interested in EV+, when they have an EV button. "Hybrid EV+" does not satiate button-envy. 

 

Have fun,

Frank

I think you're under the assumption that either:

A) Energi owners always return home before they've exhausted the "EV Portion" of the battery

or

B) Energi owners can force the car into EV mode even when we're in "hybrid mode."

Just FYI, Assuming you start out with a full charge on an Energi you've basically got maybe 10-30 miles of "EV" range which for the most part you can use now or later(this is EV Later mode, it just allows you to say "OK, use my current 90% SOC as the mid point for hybrid mode) as you choose.

But once you've used up that portion of the battery and it drops below 0% you are dumped into "hybrid mode" which I believe works just like the hybrid model.  At that point there is no EV button anymore("Not available" is what it tells you).  The only way out of that mode is pretty much managing to find at least several miles of downhill to recharge and bump you back into the EV portion of the battery.

So, for people like myself who drive 13 miles to work on EV, don't have a place to recharge and then head back and maybe 5 miles in I run out of battery I'm back into hybrid mode just like you and EV+ kicks in for that last bit home.  Though given my house is about midpoint on a hill it doesn't really work very well.  I usually just end up with a mostly full hybrid portion before I plug it in.  Or coming from the other direction it's still too much of a hill for it to keep from starting the ICE.

So it seems like the energi could be better than the hybrid in the winter because the extra battery can be used for heating which is very inefficient for the ICE to do, unless on the highway.

 

That could be the good reason for me to have an energi.  A warm car in the winter.  In the winter I usually keep the car on the cool side to avoid the agony of lower mpg.

It all depends on the circumstances.  Generally speaking the Energi is always going to be better if you drive in a range that stays within the EV battery range(or close to it) and you don't need the extra cargo space.

As far as heating goes that's also pretty much the largest factor on range...  So you might get 20 miles on a nice 60F day, but then if you head out on a 30F day and turn on the heat, well your range may only be 10 miles on EV.  But even with a 50% EV reduction you still might be getting 50-100+ MPGe...

Does it help to switch between the EV later, EV now and EV auto modes while driving to essentially extend EV range by trying to use ICE more at perhaps at higher speeds (higher power requirements) and save EV for lower speeds (lower power requirements) and so forth? 

 

I doubt Ford uses different parts of the HVB for HEV operation and a different part for EV operation to spread the load around. That's counter to operating batteries in general when cycling but it could be done.  It seems that would highly complicate equalizing the charge on the individual cells which is one of the most important functions for battery long life - making sure all cells are balanced and have an equal charge.  I would envision one battery for control operations and that the control algorithm simply apportions a slice of the entire HVB to Hybrid operation based on the control mode (EV later, now, and auto) as the HVB is being discharged. The slice would then not be a fixed portion of the HVB but in essence "move" depending on the SOC.  Of course once one depletes the HVB near it's lower limit, the bottom portion of the HVB would then be operated just like the Hybrid.

 

One more point on this thread in general to get back on topic of the thread.  If I calculate the savings from using EV+ vs not using EV plus for Energi owners, it seems it would likely be less than a $10 bill annually. Of course it is highly dependent on electricity vs gas prices.  But the amount of gas that would be saved for the last 1/2 mile or so say 365 times a year is not much (maybe 4-5 gallons) and the amount of electricity used (maybe 50 kWh) make the difference rather insignificant in the operation of EV+.  Also, I doubt for Hybrid owners that use EV+ saves much fuel, if any, as fuel is the only source of energy.  ICE must run on cold startup to reach the operating temperature for closed loop operation anyways.  Again I'll bet the fuel saved, if any, is less than a $10 a year.

 

IMO, EV+ as it currently exists is marketing hype by Ford.  Now expand EV+ for say the last 5 miles with many intermediate locations along the route including the controls to optimize the use of EV and ICE over those last 5 miles, and one may achieve meaningful economic benefits.  We can argue as to whether use of EV+ extends the life of the HVB, but IMO the real benefit of the EV+ algorithm is yet to come.

Depending on circumstances you can "play" with the system to gain a bit.  I mean if you're only driving 10 miles and you've got a full EV battery then it's definitely going to be the best to just stay in EV mode and never start the ICE at all.  I can easily clear 160MPGe that way on my way to work in the morning and I've cleared 200MPGe when trying a bit more.

But if you're taking a longer trip where you're going to need to start the ICE at some time it depends.  For my usual commute I'll keep it in EV for 13 miles to work.  Then for the most part just leave it in EV mode until it runs out and use the ICE/hybrid for the last half-ish part of the trip.  Though I do tend to try to hit EV Later a bit earlier than I need it to get the ICE warmed up so I'm not either pulling max amps from the battery to go up a hill and/or having the ICE start up cold and then immediately hitting high revs.

So... Yeah, if you're talking about longer trips, it might better to leave the ICE off entirely if it's going to cool off during a work day anyway, or as a general rule otherwise I'll aim for the most efficient/long term use which is generally along the lines of using EV mode for speed limits around <45mph and EV later for the highways and/or up hills.

I agree there's no indication that there's any different parts used for EV vs hybrid portions on the Energi.  It's just software.

I agree with you on EV+ as well. I think it's like Eco cruise.  It's a nice little feature that has a slight little benefit, but not really anything noticeable in real world dollars.

So how much range do you have combining the two? :)

 

Paul

I'm guessing you're talking about EV only range...  Between about 10-35 miles.  Depends HUGELY on the conditions.  If you don't need any climate control, you set the cruise at 25mph and go on nice flat roads you could probably clear 35 miles.  Go out in the winter with the heater on, up a hill or try to get on the highway, etc and you could get less than 10 miles.

If you mean with the ICE as well, I think the tank is like a half gallon larger than the hybrid version but the final drive ratio is a bit lower.  With my Energi in hybrid mode I've seen about 57MPG with setting the cruise at 25mph and babying/playing around the hills.  But on my trip home from the dealer in January with the cruise around 70mph it showed just over 27MPG.  For some reason my Energi seems to be getting a bit lower MPG than other Energi's I've heard from.

It sounds like you can use up NRG portion of HVB and then keep going EV in Hybrid part of HVB.  How much extra range is that? :)

 

Paul

I'd bet it's about the same as your hybrid if it starts with a full battery.  Range all depends on how it's driven.  Going up my hills I'm lucky if it's very far at all. Could maybe be a few miles if you babied it under great flat conditions.

I probably should have said hybrid mode rather than EV later, although they are similar. The Energi is programmed as if the remaining "hybrid" battery is all there is. In fact there is a lot more HVB capacity available. You can see the effect after the HVB is out of EV and you are running hybrid. The battery attempts to leave room for regen when engaging EV. This is better for the hybrid, which has no extra battery - when you slow down, it has room in the HVB for energy capture. But with the Energi, it does not have to worry about leaving extra capacity to use for regen - it could theoretically perform differently, and not try and leave capacity in the battery. It changes the way the car uses EV. I don't know if it could be improved much, but I've noticed it tries to keep capacity available when the Energi is in "hybrid" mode - just like the C-Max Hybrid does. I doubt that a hybrid owner would notice, but to this Energi owner, I think it could be done better. Anyway, that is how I see that Ford duplicated the code instead of customizing it for the Energi. I think they took the hybrid code and basically tacked on the Energi modes (which were custom made for the plug in models).

 

It is the same in EV+, but you can't monitor it like you can when the "hybrid" battery is showing - that is, after EV Only and EV Later modes are disabled. In EV Later mode, you still have the mileage estimate on the battery (at least up until the mid 2015 model year, not sure about 2016 and later) - and other than showing range going up and down, you can't really tell what the car is doing with the "hybrid" reserved portion of the battery.

Still not entirely sure I'm following you, but if I'm close to what you're saying, to my knowledge yes EV Later is strictly intended as switching to "hybrid mode" at a given set point of SOC.  It will tell you when you select EV Later what the battery set point is.  The only place where it's a bit different is that like you said it wants to leave room for regen so it won't hold a set point of more than 95%.  If you have the car charged at 100% and you hit EV Later it will set it to 95% and you'll generally drive however many miles before the ICE starts up when the charge gets around 95% and how much power you're asking for.

You can bring up the SOC on the leaf screen and see the charge level go up and down.  It's usually only a few percent difference in either direction, but I think I saw it drop as much as 7% below the set point at one time up a good hill.  And you can still see the battery charge and discharge with the usual arrows.

It will still regen as much as you can though.  If you're in hybrid mode it can regen back into EV mode and if you have it on EV Later and set to 0% you can regen back up to 100% if you have enough opportunity.

That's also the only trick I know of getting the battery to recharge back up while driving.  If you're starting at something like 5% and set EV Later you can drive either normally or learn the right accelerator position and the charge level will go up to like 6% then you click through the auto, ev and back to EV Later again and you now have the set point at 6%.  It's a lot of messing around for debatably any benefit at all, but it's the only way I know of if you want to.

I'm aware of the terminology. When I set up Go Times I checked out value charging; as I recall it was part of the process, or maybe I just did them together to see if there were cheaper rates.

 

The Go time will consider the departure time and ensure the HVB is fully charged when you are ready to go, and I believe it will begin early regardless of value settings. You mentioned it might be best if the Energi waited until it had to for charging the HVB in order to be ready at departure. It does exactly that with the Go times. That is why I brought it up.

 

In my opinion, EV+ doesn't make much sense for the Hybrid. If you run the battery all the way down, it will have to charge up immediately when you start, causing you to run the ICE while charging at first run. My Escape Hybrid tended to do that (that tech required the engine to run at each start up), and it is pretty much the worst for MPG. It would be better if there were more charge available when starting - at least you could get a start and logically kick in the engine once you got going. In addition, unlike the Energi where the grid will charge the HVB, the battery will be in a lower SOC overnight. I think it was easier for Ford to just put in a lot of the same software, and that is why EV+ is in the hybrid.

 

Along those lines, they could have customized EV Later so that it used the higher capacity HVB - but they didn't; it works the same as the Hybrid, and I would bet that the computer algorithms are just about identical once you hit the EV Later swtich.

 

There. Despite what I said, we just spend time discussing Energi topics on the hybrid forum - not many will be interested here.

I agree with your first statement. "It will begin early regardless."  Yes, if you don't have value charging set up then the Go times will have basically no effect on charging.  It will simply start charging as soon as you plug it in and finish when it gets to 100%.

You have to use Value charging to get any sort of delay and that still doesn't delay for more than a day.

You seem to have entered a third opinion on EV+ and another one that goes directly against what Ford says it's supposed to do and everything that I've seen it do.  

Ford simply says that it is meant to help keep the ICE from running as you near a place you're going to stop at.  That's all I've seen it do.

If the other opinion I've heard is that it's mean to lower SOC, then I don't see why they didn't just program EV+ to simply aim for that magic 40% charge level.

But it sounds like you don't agree with Ford or the other opinion of lowering SOC.

I'm not following what you are thinking EV Later should do with the HVB?  I'd bet it's about the same algorithm as the hybrid  well...  That's what it's supposed to do...  It's purpose is to NOT use the HVB...  If you want to use the HVB, you would go with either EV now or Auto mode...

livesmith,

This is a C-Max Hybrid forum. The question is why EV+ would be meaningful for the hybrid. It makes sense for the Energi, which plugs into the grid daily.

 

But there is no point in charging an Energi to 50% - the entire idea of that car is to use as much electric as possible. But in fact, you can use EV Later to charge your car the way you describe, and by default it will begin charging early enough to ensure it is fully charged before you start out in the morning.

 

EDIT: Just a friendly tip. I monitor this forum even though I have an Energi because a lot of the car is the same. But I'm careful to only get involved in the discussions when I think the topic overlaps with the Energi model. I think it is good etiquette. You will get a lot more interest if you post Energi suff in the Energi forum.

I think there is a lot of overlap with the cars.  Sure, there are differences.  But some times the points overlap depending on what you're trying to explain.

Though I'm *completely* missing your point on why EV+ makes more sense in the Energi...  The Energi would be much more likely than the Hybrid to be making it home without starting the ICE...  If you're still in EV mode then EV+ isn't going to do anything at all...

Sure there's a reason to only charge the Energi to 50%(or 40% if that seems to be best charge holding battery longevity number).  I park my car Friday afternoon and don't need it again until Tuesday morning.  It would be best if I could just have it in a "storage charge" mode and charged to 40%, then when my Go Time comes up Tuesday morning it finishes charging up to 100%.

I think you're confusing some terms...

-"Value charging" is what you could set up to have it delay charging at all and I don't know of anything that would delay it more than a day.

-"Go Times" are what you'd set up to make sure your car is charged and or temp controlled(attempted) by a specific time(but it won't delay anything)

-"EV Later" is only used while you are actually driving and it will just put the car into hybrid mode at whatever set point the battery is currently at.  I.e. you want to keep the EV battery held at 95%.

Yes, Toyota's plug-in has always been Li-ion, and they've started switching the rest of the line over. There were none on the market at C-Max introduction. 

 

As to the rest... I think you're a great example of Ford's success with the feature. You even quoted he right piece; the mental attitude they wanted to engender in their owners: " '... we'd try to turn the engine off more.' " Imagine if Consumer's Union had had a clue how to do this... perhaps they failed to view the piece you linked. That piece is "marketing" where you never tell your real intentions

 

The BS is the unsupported opinion that: "EV+ is not about being good to your battery for storage at all."

 

I explained how it works, but you've ignored that. Need I add that Ford's engineers are smart? That Ford keeps the important stuff - intellectual property - secret. 

 

And you've got an Energi! That disqualifies your opinions regarding EV+ operation. You've never used it. 

 

But you can't see that either. That's why I called BS. 

 

HAve fun,

Frank

So what you're saying is that EV+ is NOT actually what Ford says it is, but instead has a secret agenda that can not be revealed and therefore not proven.

I'm not saying that it IS or is NOT good for the battery, just that I've yet to see any evidence to such a thing.  And I can't fathom why Ford would want to keep that a secret...

Sorry buddy but I use EV+ every single day I take my Energi out.  I've owned it for about 8 months now and I think there may have been about 3 times in total when I had some special short range trip where I had enough battery left to make it home.  Every day on my usual commute home about 3-5 miles in the EV portion is done, the ICE kicks in and I'm in pretty much the same hybrid mode as you and when I get to the last half mile-ish with the ICE running, EV+ shows up on the dash and it increases the tolerance (which you can see in the meter) for how much EV it will let you use before kicking the ICE back on.

For that matter, if you truly believe that Ford has a secret(and why on earth would they want to keep items to make your battery last longer a secret?) agenda to promote battery longevity by lowering the battery charge while parked then take a look at the Energi.  Why does the car provide no option whatsoever to stop charging at anything less than 100%?(Actual SOC around 90% I believe).  If they wanted to do as you suggest then there would be an option to stop charge at 50% for storage as a default and then finish the charge before you need to drive the car.

Keep in mind that 20% on an Energi Battery would be a much higher % in a hybrid battery in terms of energy available.

 

I haven't driven a Prius, but I have a hard time imagining it being much smoother transition than my 2015 C-Max Energi.  In my car, if I don't mention it, my passengers can't tell when the engine starts, or if it is running or not, unless I am accelerating up an on-ramp or something similar that brings the rpms up considerably.

 

From reading this thread, it appears that Energi drivers have a slightly different perception of the primary benefit of EV+ than Hybrid drivers do.  I think the Energi drivers focus on not starting the ICE is because they commonly drive for days or weeks without starting the ICE.  In an Energi, creeping into the driveway in EV+ with half of the Hybrid portion of the battery consumed, but without starting the ICE, creates a curious euphoria that I have never experienced in a hybrid, ICE car, or BEV.  It's like you just won a hard level on a video game :-)

Yes, the percentage levels would have large differences in actual amounts of power left between the 2 batteries, but I'd think the voltage levels would similar as far as percentages go.  Perhaps I'm mistaken.

I think there may be some variances in the C-Maxes or maybe it's just more noticeable due to the bigger power outputs from the C-Max.  They are just 2 differently behaving cars.  The C-Max doesn't usually seem bad, but there have been occasions when it seems like it lugged a bit to get away from a start in hybrid mode.  Not exactly bad, just not quite smooth.  I had another time when I topped up the battery at someone's house at the top of a hill.  On the way back down the car was REALLY acting funky with 100% charge and trying to balance out regen, spinning the ICE, braking, etc.

The Prius is more like you start out and the ICE starts up and it just revs up and stays there till you reach speed but doesn't seem to have the *slight* jerkiness I've noticed in the C-Max.  And if you fill the battery, the ICE just stays spinning for a while where I got the impression the C-Max was trying to stop spinning the ICE sooner which made for a lot more coming and going as I was stopping at intersections going down a hill and maxed out.

I've only driven my Energi maybe a handful of times without starting the engine during the day.  It just can't handle my 25 miles with some elevation on battery only.  I dunno, EV+ just seems like an extension of the usual hybrid game if you're trying to hyper mile or otherwise keep it in EV mode as long as possible.  I've done the same thing with my Prius.  How gently can I keep that accelerator to keep it from turning on the ICE...(and the Prius is a lot more likely to start the ICE than the C-Max)...

Just filled up, 788mi. total, 530mi. EV 68% EV, 58MPG and 50% city. :shift:  You would be hard pressed to do that in a Prius, let alone a Prius V. :yahoo:

 

Paul

Eh, It might take a bit of effort to get that mileage out of a Prius(though I've heard the current generation is now in the 60's).  But I'd also guarantee that you're not driving your C-Max like a "normal" person and are hypermiling to get that sort of mileage.  And you are doing excellent at it.  The only time I could get that out of my Energi was while constantly shifting to N down hills without stops at the bottom and setting the cruise to 25mph.  

My Energi is lucky to clear 35mpg in hybrid mode under anything resembling normal driving around here.  But I live in hilly areas with 55 or 65mph speed limits most of the time.  I've seen it as low as 25mpg but with the bigger battery and EV mode(and dropping the speed from 55 back to 30mph up a few hills) I've got my average up to about 58mpge which does beat my roughly 42mpg overall average of out of my 12 year old Prius at a bit higher speeds.

When SOC gets below 34% the ICE jerks when starting. :)

 

Paul

Interesting note...  I've frequently thought that the C-Max seems a bit less refined in it's ICE starting and stopping(most notably from a dead stop) compared to my old Prius.  But with my Energi most of the time I'd have the ICE running would be when my battery is closer to 20%...  I would have thought that there would be enough volt/amp regulation to keep the car performing the same no matter the normal battery levels, but now you've got me wondering if there is something that makes it less smooth when the battery voltage is lower...

If you are concerned about the reliability of your battery pack Ford warrants the hybrid system components for 8 years or 100,000mi in all states and 10 years/150,000mi in certain other states (but unfortunately not New York).  I would expect typical replacement cost to be around $4K, same as buying a new transmission for a similar non-hybrid auto.

Weird, I thought NY WAS in that list of extended states...

The thing is that for the most part, this is only going to be a factor if your battery up and dies completely.  If your battery capacity degrades to half you'll have a heck of a time trying to talk a dealer into that being warranty work that needs to be done.  For that matter on a hybrid you might not even notice much.  On an Energi it will be more evident but I think I've only seen a single mention somewhere of it only being a "failure" if the battery is down to around 60% capacity and even then I think I've only ever heard of a single dealer actually agreeing to it.  I've seen a number of reports of Energi owners who have seen a drop to maybe around 75% capacity.

I call BS. Got any credentials behind it, or are you just spreading uninformed personal opinion?

 

Li-ion battery technology may be new, but it's well known that high charge levels accelerate failure, and life after storage is extended if stored with less than half charge. 

 

Then look at the feature, which is the only one I know of, in this car, that crosses the engine/entertainment CPU barrier. (Absence of such a barrier gets you on 60 Minutes.) GPS is part of entertainment, so it's clear that Ford made a specific exception to data crossing the barrier. 

 

Then there's the sophistication... it's not just keeping track of where you turn the car off. It's tracking how far away you are, and HVB state of charge. Higher charge will activate EV+ sooner, at greater distance from your destination. That's not simple.

 

Now, ask why Ford would invest in a such a complex-but-useless feature... and perhaps you'll understand the true value of your post. 

 

The last bit is to ask why it's not a Prius feature? They don't use Li-ion batteries in hybrids. This ain't rocket science, if you just do a little digging. 

 

HAve fun,

Frank

BS on what part?

Show me some information anywhere that EV+ is anything at all towards battery longevity...  I've certainly not seen it...

Here's a video from Ford which I believe is the same thing it says in the manual...

I quote:

"EV+ is a system that allows the customer to get more driving in EV mode as they approach a familiar destination."

He goes on to say "that if we knew the vehicle was going to key off in a mile, we'd try to turn the engine off more."

So...  which part do you think I've mis-represented, or is there that leads you to believe that this feature has anything to do with long term storage?

I'm not necessarily saying that it's bad for the battery, just that that's not it's purpose.  It simply loosens the limits on EV mode to allow you a better chance to keep the ICE off.  

I've got an Energi so my lower end is I think under 20%SOC if hybrid mode gets towards the bottom.  But, if it would normally only allow me one bar of EV power before kicking on the ICE, in EV+ mode it might allow me to use 2 bars of power.

It may or may not be better for storage long term, but if Ford normally deems the limits for using the battery are X, then why would it be better to allow you to draw more amperage for a longer time while the battery is at a lower SOC?  Again, not saying it's terribly detrimental, but I'm doubting there's any benefit to the battery from it.

All it does is say "You're X distance from these GPS coordinate where you key off the vehicle frequently. You now enter EV+ mode and we'll let you use more battery amps/lower SOC than normal."(not a huge amount more though).

So yes, I live halfway up a hill.  Usually I EV+ kicks on for me just as I hit the flat spot above the hill so I enter the garage with an almost full hybrid battery.  Now, if I come home from the other direction I can drive closer to normal and the uphill will kick in the ICE anyway and I'll be about midrange hybrid battery.  But if I really baby it and try to keep it in EV mode as much as possible and climb that hill at like 5mph, then I can get in there with about 20% showing on the hybrid portion of the battery.

I've not seen any report or first hand experience of a higher SOC activating EV+ sooner.  Only distance from a set of coordinates where you key off the vehicle.  If you've evidence otherwise, please provide.

Why would Ford invest in such a feature?  I dunno, same reason as any other little thing like Eco cruise.  I don't think it's quite as complicated as you make it out to be.  Sure there was time invested.  I recall somewhere reading that they were having trouble figuring out how to do it because it would require a lot of processing of GPS, map data, etc and then they realized they could just use coordinates and the code became quite small/easy to process.  But it's just another nice little feature.  From what I've seen Ford has more features, options, gadgets and gizmos than anyone else.  Why bother investing in the brake coach or leaves?  It furthers the "green" image they are trying to portray to get people to buy these cars.  

Toyota has something like leaves as well as I recall.  They just haven't chosen to implement such a feature.  Sure, Ford's got a patent on it but I imagine if they tried hard enough other manufacturers could do such a thing, it's just not something they've deemed important enough.  Though I also get the impression that Toyota is prioritizing emissions or engine life or something compared to Ford as from what little I've read and experienced it seems the Prius is a lot more likely to fire up the ICE as it seems to want to keep the cat at full temps or some such thing.  I think Toyota may use a slightly smaller percentage of the battery as well.

And Toyota does use some Li-Ion in Prius' it's just not the majority of them.

Also note that EV+ is not about being good to your battery for storage at all.

EV+ just lets you drain the battery a bit lower than it normally would so that you might not have to start your ICE to make it the last little bit home.

My experience has different with Ford Service because I found a smaller dealer in a rural area.  The reason I trust the service department there is because they were able to reprogram the BCM to turn off my DRLs.  It's a small thing but they could have easily said, "We can't figure it out".  But they listened to my concern and it was no problem for their service manager.  They also did 3-4 recalls (including airbag replacement) and an oil change in one day for me.

 

I once needed to make an appointment at later hours so I scheduled service with one of their high volume dealerships (5 time Presidential award winner or something) and had a terrible experience.  I had inspection, oil change, tires replaced and an alignment done, waited quite a while and they never showed me any paperwork from the alignment, the notes didn't record the tire wear,,.  I don't think the advisor was being untruthful but it would have been nice to see -something- for the $90 cost of that alignment which he first said would be free with the tires.

 

If you find an independent mechanic who specializes in the car that's one thing but I'll never forget the look of bewildered amazement on the face of those guys when they lifted the hood of the Prius and were trying to find where the battery terminals were..

Feels about like the opposite around here.  I'm in the rural area.  My EV certifed Ford dealer certainly didn't seem overly busy but they:

-had online appointments that they never responded to

-only took down my info on a sticky note

-I told them my problems like 5 times to several different people over the course of a couple days(not that they ever bothered to call me and give me an update)

-The responses I got were things like

-"Oh"

-"Nope, doesn't work for us either. Maybe try contacting someone at Ford on the website."

-"There is no problem with your GPS(Cause mine was showing it off by several blocks at various times).  But if you wanted us to troubleshoot further, the first thing you would need to do is buy a $189 map update.  It's just like your phone, you have to do that every year."(Never mind that my roads haven't changed in over 50 years).

-I've since fixed the GPS myself by updating the GPS module.  Apparently the 10 minutes it would have taken them to do that was too much work or some such thing.

The better dealers I've found are up near the larger cities.  Not saying that they are all good, but the single ones I've found are there.

Also not going to tell you that all independent dealers are great. There are some lousy ones and there are some that are great but just haven't seen a hybrid yet.  But I get the impression you might see the same look of surprise in a lot of Ford dealer garages as well depending on when and where you are...

http://www.fordparts.com/Commerce/PartDetail.aspx?n=6YLiDeXwiM6gbahIM7SREg%3d%3d&id=388654604&m=44&search=true&year=2013&make=Ford&model=C-Max

 

So the C-Max battery does not appear to be a deep cycle battery (wheelchair type battery).  Looking at the picture it seems to have 390 cold cracking amps which assuming the HVB starts a C-Max is not necessary.  My Dad's electric scooter battery is about that size and 35 amps but it runs a scooter a really really long time.  A battery about that size that starts a riding mower runs a scooter for about 45 seconds though it has lots more amps (cold cracking amps).  

 

There may be advantages to using a deep cycle battery in the C-Max.

 

Having jumped my car when the battery had been dead, I do believe the car is started with the HVB.  (Though this implies that if the HVB is dead, the car will not start.  But will charging the 12V battery charge the HVB ? )

 

(By the way, it is around 30 lbs.)

There's 2 ways of looking at what you want for the 12V battery... One is smaller and lighter weight.  I recall a post somewhere of someone who built LI-ION batteries at work and he made a custom one for his C-Max.

The other is if you're going to leave it sitting for longer periods of time or otherwise leave it in any state that's just using up the 12V battery.  In that case the little battery does not hold up very long and I agree, not being deep cycle it really doesn't like it.

I'm not sure of the exact needs of the C-Max but with the Prius, the biggest load on the battery was the pump for the brakes.  Estimates were around 30 amps for a few seconds or so while it built up pressure, but that was about the most it ever had to deal with.

-If you manage to kill your HVB and actually have zero voltage in it, then yeah your car is well and truly dead as far as motive power.  There's nothing to start the ICE with at that point and even if you got the ICE started, you still need the HV side of things to run the MG's to make your planetary transmission work to get power to the road.

I'd guess there are some safeguards in place to prevent the HVB from ever getting drained that far.  If you do manage it I'd guess it's similar to the Prius in that you need a special charger from Ford, or else you'd have to find someone handy with such things to get it charged for you.

No, charging the 12V will do nothing for the HVB.