livesmith

I've got mixed feelings on this one... Off the top of my head: -I trust my independent mechanic across the street WAY more than I do my "Ev Certified" Ford dealer. This was true with Toyota dealers as well. I finally called around to about a dozen and found ONE that actually instilled confidence in me. But I'd still only go there if I had to. The majority of my experience with dealers in sales, service and parts is that they know less than I do yet talk like they know it all and are happy to charge $120 an hour. -Most independents definitely do seem a bit more nervous around hybrids. Mine said they wouldn't touch the hybrid system, but had no trouble doing any of the few repairs I needed on my Prius over 6 or so years. -I'll agree there there should be respect for the HV components, but I think a lot of the concerns are less founded. If the car isn't "ON" then there's no HV outside of the battery itself. Otherwise they could do away with the entire 12V battery, etc. The ONLY purpose that the little 12V has is to Boot up computers that verify it's OK to turn on the HV Relay. It would be a much more efficient, reliable operation to just not have a 12V battery and instead leave the HV battery connected. But in the interest of safety we've basically got a 40lb battery that amounts to the same purpose as a switch. -Sure, there are lots of computers in the car, and theoretically you could fry them, but just how would one go about introducing voltage to do that? I mean do we think someone's going to accidentally have the car running, and then cut through the large orange HV cable and then run a jumper wire to the 12V side of things? or just connect the 12V cables on backwards? Again, now we're back to stupid stuff anyone can do on any car and screw things up... Now, if your battery pack dies and your buddy Joe has never even wired up an electrical outlet but tells you he's going to take apart the battery and take a look, I'd be concerned. but otherwise I'll much prefer my competent independent mechanic to look at things instead of the dealer.

Depends on what conditions you're trying to get that best efficiency from as to what would work best, but then you'd lose out under different conditions. But I'd say the Prius is a pretty efficient vehicle under quite a variety of conditions...

Some manufacturers might, but this is my first Ford and the first time I've run into this. There's always been some option for turning them off. Either with the parking brake or an actual "DRL Off" switch. Heck, even the newer Fords apparently have a menu setting for turning the DRL off or on as they have an instructional video for it.

Yeah, my car's title is listed as "Fleet" but according to the data that was still in the GPS it looked like it belonged to a doctor in Ohio. Mine definitely has DRL's with reduced brightness. I can see when I pull in the garage one level and then they get brighter when it decides that the auto headlamps need to come on.

Yeah, but that's awfully muddy water there with hybrids and EV's etc... Are we only talking about combustible fuel engines idling? In that case, many hybrids will be able to sit there with the AC on without a problem. And all EV's and sometimes PHEV's as well... If that's not ok, then I'm assuming you're not allowed to sit and listen to the radio in your car either? Meaning all drive-ins are illegal? Or are they implementing requirements as to just how much power you're allowed to use while parked?

You're telling me that parked cars in Canda that have the car "on" are required to have their headlights on? That sounds a bit much... Definitely wasn't true in 1991. I had a 1991 Isuzu Impulse RS imported from Canada and it still had the ability to be parked with the handbrake on and DRL's NOT on...

Hehe, I've started monkeying with the Ford IDS and Forscan, etc. I'm taking a break at the moment cause this little annoyance is causing me too much frustration! I even found out that those DRL's are forced on if you're plugged in charging and turn the car "on". Love DRL, but can't fathom why they would not give SOME sort of option to turn them OFF. Anyway, I've tried Forscan and Ford's IDS. The IDS software is SO INCREDIBLY OBTUSE... (like go click through a drop down on the left, but it won't actually do anything until you go click a checkmark on the bottom right...) But with either software, all I can find is about 5 or 6 programmable items in the BCM. Things like "trunk illumination enabled" "Drive wipe pause time", etc... Nothing about the DRL's. Everywhere else I've seen it says there should be an "Exterior lighting" option in there. I have yet to find it. Not sure if my car just has it in a completely different spot that I've yet to find, or it requires some slightly different hardware/software to talk to it or if there's something else weird about it...

You can set the "Home" location in the navigation settings, but that has nothing to do with EV+ mode. EV+ mode is just something it does on it's own seemingly based on how many times you stop at the same location. Mine picked up home within a week. Didn't even realize it had created one for work as well till months later, but I don't know how quickly it created it.

AHAHAHAHA, NOT EVEN CLOSE... In my experience the energi in EV mode: -has some great torque up to around 30-40mph range. Still holds up decently up o around 50-60mph, but you're definitely not up to a Prius' level of acceleration at that point. 70mph takes a bit of time. Haven't tried much over 70 yet. And that's mostly talking about flat-ish terrain and going easy with the go pedal. Add even a moderate hill and anything over 40mph is going to take a long while IF you can keep it in EV mode. My experience is that if you're watching the Empower screen and I ask for more than about 2.5-3 bars of power for more than maybe a minute it will kick on the ICE even if there's plenty of battery left and even at 50F temps. And on my hills around here 2-3 bars of power is generally only enough to keep the speed up to about 30-40mph. Basically if I take my 14 mile commute to work on the highway which is pretty much on a general decline it will hold 70mph and use up about 80% of the battery. I tried it once for the return trip with a full battery and even trying to take a long time to get it up to speed on the uphill portion, it was still slow and kicking in the ICE long before it was out of battery. I'm learning the more I use my Energi that it has a lot of options, but it's NOT something that's made to just go out and run on the highway in EV mode(and even less so for very long). It can do it in limited amounts, but it's not necessarily good for it.

Wonder where that room actually is... Is there more interior room in the Fusion? Pictures I've seen of the Fusion Energi trunk look like there is maybe enough room for a card table...

Ehhh, isn't some of this stuff available on the Fusion hybrid/Energi models? I don't think there's any more room there. I think it's a marketing choice where the C-Max which based on how many I've seen compared to other Fords has to be about their least selling vehicle. The other possibility is that it's like our Toyota Sienna and there's a weight issue with staying in whatever class it's in. You can't get all the options on the AWD model because it would push the weight up into the next class of vehicle.

Sure, you could probably find a panel for $20 and shove it in a window to trickle charge the 12V battery. Getting serious voltage and a decent amount of amperage into the high voltage battery is going to be a bit more complicated and expensive... I'm thinking you've got at LEAST a couple hundred dollars in panels, if not a good bit more, and then you better be at a level where you're able to hack/build your own equipment to hook into the HV battery and not have the computers yell at you, etc...

I'm thinking you looked in the wrong places. I could find quite a few 2013 C-Max Energi's for under $10K. I bought my 2013 C-Max Energi with 303A and Pano roof in January for under $13K. Pretty sure it cost more than $35K new... A Prius might be harder to harder to do that with. IIRC, I bought my loaded 2004 Prius for just under $10K in 2009 so that was closer to 5 years old at the time. It's price when new I believe may have skated in under $30K. Though a quick glance shows plenty of 2013 Prius' out there for under $10K as well...

Sure, but think about the other options you pay for on cars... I'd say on average you can option a car with about $10K worth of stuff. It's up to you where you want to spend your money. Lots of people like to go out and buy new cars and dump a lot of money in that "new" word. Personally, I'll buy a 3 year old car for maybe half or less of the cost and get one with all of the options installed for close to free(they really don't seem to make much difference in the used world.).

The old 3G Prius had a small solar panel that did what you describe. The new Prius Prime gets a much larger panel that actually charges the big battery. It's certainly not likely to provide all of the power for your commute, but if it's out in the sun anyway, I'll take some solar power!

Like the 3rd Gen Prius has?

That's how every other car I've had worked as well. and/or there was a parking brake off function and/or a specific switch for "drl off". Not so on my 2013 Cmax Energi. If the car is "on" (even if it's just a single button press without the brake and the car isn't even ready to drive) those stupid headlights are on... I like DRL's, but if I didn't think it would be like $100 for the dealer to turn them off, I think I'd have it done. Sometimes I just want to park and NOT have my headlights on...

I've also noticed on my Energi at least that it seems to do all it can to keep you from exceeding 1000-1500rpm for around 30-60 seconds on a cold engine.

To my knowledge Hill descent uses whatever is available to make sure you don't exceed(much) your set speed. Basically reverse cruise control. So, I'd advise using L mode first on bigger hills. That one shouldn't use any friction braking at all. Hill descent will use friction brakes if you are exceeding the set speed and it can't use any more regen.(not sure if it will spin the ice like L mode or not...)

As I understand it, Grade Assist will still use friction brakes if it still needs to slow the car and it can't use any more regen. So, if it's doing a good bit of work there's a good chance you are still using friction brakes.

I've yet to try it and find it hard to believe, but I've heard reports that even doing that somehow doesn't turn them off...

Ford will admit to there being an issue of health if the engine is not reaching high enough operating temperature long enough. The hybrid model may not be the same, but on the Energi, if you don't get enough trips with the ICE running long enough/warm enough you'll be put in "Oil Maintenance Mode" and forced to use your ICE for some period of time(seems to be days) to get things cleaned up. I've seen it in the manual and heard a number of people in the winter having gotten stuck into it. I believe the biggest issue is some sort of condensation issue, though I suppose there could be any sort of contaminants that might be getting into the oil and not getting a chance to be burnt/steamed off... So I would agree that hybrids that are designed to be started and stopped all the time shouldn't have accelerated wear like if you had a "normal" car that you were stopping and starting. Then again... There is an ever increasing amount of "normal" cars that are getting start-stop systems that DO shut the engine off at stop lights... So maybe there just isn't that much trouble with starts anymore... But as far as running the car at frequent temps under like 150F, I'd say that's more likely to accumulate crud in the oil. As to just how much/how bad that is, who knows. Personally, I'll just wait till my Oil light comes on every 20K miles in my Energi and put a good filter and Mobil 1 Extended in it. At that point the ICE will maybe have 5-10K miles or so on it, but it will probably be closer to 2 years time.

There are a number of variables we don't know... Here are the pieces off the top of my head: -Yes, the Prius should have a better drag coefficiency and go through the air better. It gets better mpg so that all works together. -As for coasting though, he may have been in B mode(same as L in the C-Max) which would be using his ICE to slow him down a bit. -I don't know how the standard non-braking regen in a Prius compares to the same in the C-Max. I had a 2004 Prius(which would be the same as the 2009). Can't say I'd tell a lot of difference in non-braking regen... -If the Prius Battery was topped off, the ICE would definitely be spinning, but not sure that I recall any added drag from it if it's not braking or in B mode... Then there's just the usual every car potential differences... Tires(different resistances), brakes(possibly dragging), etc...

Not sure the specifics of what you're referring to, but as the owner of a 2004 Prius during the time of all that stupid unintended acceleration, I can assure you I played with my car. I could find about a half dozen ways to initiate deceleration and most importantly if you push the brake pedal the car comes to a STOP. There's absolutely no way to press both pedals to the floor and have the car moving. If that idiot fried his brakes, the only way I can see to do it would be to hold both pedals at some careful mid point so you're just dragging the brakes. Find any car in decent shape where the brakes don't stop the car besides whatever you do with the gas.

I'd agree that the C-Max is likely going to be running colder in city conditions(though I suppose it unlikely but possible these taxi's see more highway use). However, this car must REALLY be super stupidly designed to be kept colder than it should be if the fans are kept on and so strong that running them with AC is dropping the water temp even more than normal. AC usage should only be raising temps outside the cabin... The more I hear it seems like the car was designed to generally never reach operating temps... IIRC, the numbers are something like... -165F the thermostat starts opening(and this is where it starts taking a long time for the ICE to warm up further) -202F the thermostat is fully open Which is supposedly the bottom number for normal operating temp... But the shutters don't even open until like 215F or something? Just seems like there's a disconnect in the thinking somewhere on Ford's part or I'm missing something...