redEV

Hopefully any new owner's here were treated better than this ... http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130107/carnews01/130109916#ixzz2HJsP6KYf The Ford dealer I was dealing with was better than this one in FL (not revealed but perhaps familiar to someone here?) but I've run into others just as bad. Could be one of the reasons I bought another VW instead of anything else (including a C-Max) as the 'rep I got my Touareg from came from the service dept. originally and was quite knowledgeable about all the feature's, etc. (they also assigned a 'delivery expert', which was great versus digging through the owner's manual). As always, it's what you end up needing as 'important' from the dealer (i.e., proper paperwork filed, low-stress negotiations, etc.) versus going to another ... the sales process versus just about any other thing (except perhaps buying a house) has always been this way ... those dealer's who spend time training the dealer personnel, etc. I would think will get more repeat business. How many times have you walked into a dealer and you know more than they do about whatever car you're checking out?

Only briefly as its MSRP is $62K and its rated 20/24 ... very early in my experience on a 30 mile R/T commute (mixed highway, suburban and very minor stop & go) I'm seeing about 22 MPG with the 'regular' Touareg VR6 which is about 6 MPG better already than my Routan gave me on the very same route and I think that's because of the 8-speed automatic in the T-Reg versus the 6-speed that came with the Routi; interestingly enough, the transition through each gear is quite smooth and it doesn't appear to 'hunt' even with this many forward gear ratios (at least that I've noticed). Of course it's not broken in but if during the winter months it can maintain this rate or more I'll be happy -- in comparison, my LEAF costs about .46/day (30 mile commute / 4.3 miles per kWh * 6.6 cents fixed rate) so it's kind of like having 'carbon credits' with an EV in the house. This new Touareg is simply the best (true) VW I've owned (this is my 5th -- Scirocco > Fox > New Beetle TDI > Routon SEL) so I', pretty happy.

Thought I would circle back to my own thread as I finalized the replacement for our '09 VW Routan and it wasn't the C-Max taking the honors ... as mentioned above I was also looking at crossovers/SUV's as we didn't need the 3rd row seats and wanted something a bit smaller but the other thing I did realize it that the back seat should REALLY be able to carry 3 adults comfortably and that's why I usually unfolded the 3rd row on the Routan (it has 2 captains chairs in 2nd row, not a bench) so we loaded up 3 normal people in the C-Max and it just didn't cut it! Those seats are quite hard and don't seem to want to 'give' if you don't quite fit the indentation of the bottom seat cushion. I think it's a great car for a couple who need an 'occasional' back seat for another two people but would not make a good long trip car (IMHO) for 2 + 2 even unless they were kids in car seats. I test drove a BMW X3, Acura RDX (the new one w/V6), Toyota Highlander Hybrid Ltd., and finally a VW Touareg TDI. The X3 was plush but the start/stop was unrefined and the accelerator was hard to regulate, the RDX was decent but seemed to lack the fit and finish of the BMW, the Highlander had tons of room, but the controls and displays seemed ancient for a '13 and the CVT trans was simply terrible as well as the interior was really stark so then came the Touareg TDI --- what a torque monster! ride was refined, very quiet interior, state of the art controls and decent highway MPG (rated 29 but many get 30/32 on level roads) but as the diesel adds a decent premium to the bottom line and you really need to drive about 15 to 20K miles a year to take advantage of it, decided on the 'regular' Touareg Sport VR6. What also changed since the first post is that my LEAF will become my commuter car as we also have a smart passion coupe that will revert back to my wife's use after my son gets his own car this coming late spring so this Touareg will get us both through any bad winter weather, serve as the 2 + 3 car, cargo carrier and long distance cruiser. VW gave me a quite decent trade-in (much better than an appraisal from Carmax) against another VW so I guess Ford has to wait a bit longer for my business --- plan to keep the T-reg at least 3 years so who know by then we could be swimming in better hybrid and/or plug-ins that don't give up on comfort and cargo by then. As many over on the LEAF forum (including myself) continue to be interested on how things are going with new C-Max owner's I'm still a fan but it just wouldn't work for me ...

Not totally true -- checked autotrader and they show at least 2 Energi's within 105 miles of downtown L.A. --- http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/searchresults.xhtml?zip=90012&endYear=2013&keywordPhrases=+Energi+&modelCode1=FOCMAX&keywords=++Energi++&startYear=2010&makeCode1=FORD&listingType=new&listingTypes=new&sellerTypes=b&numRecords=25&searchRadius=100&showcaseOwnerId=100000120&captureSearch=true&Log=0

Not specific to the C-Max but have had it done on two prior cars; first was a '93 Ford Taurus SHO and second was a '97 Dodge Grand Caravan --- both were somewhat similar models, made by ASC (American Sunroof Company) who also did convertible conversions on some makes and models that didn't offer them. In both cases it was arranged through the dealer so would assume the same may be possible for the C-Max. The only caveat would be to make sure there isn't some electrical connections, etc. that need to be avoided, for instance someone did a sunroof on the LEAF but you can only do it for those w/o the solar panel at the back of the car (SV models are OK, SL's with the solar panel are not). Neither sunroof leaked during the time we owned them (5 years on the SHO, 12 on the DGC) and had auto open/close as well as switch was illuminated at night and both looked like they came that way from the factory. As Ford sold a lot more C-Max' last month I would imagine at least someone has wanted one of these but the sunroof shops will need to measure, etc. and have an owner's car to make sure it will fit, etc. Webasto also does these and a quick look on their site shows the new Escape featured so that's a possibility as well --- http://www.webastoshowroom.com/FordEscape/index_FordEscape.html

... to 'regular' hybrid version. Always wondered why the EPA rating was lower -- its due to a lower final drive ratio versus the hybrid (43 on Energi versus 47 on hybrid): "Equipment differences in the Energi version, compared to the Hybrid, include standard electric heated seats, a high-capacity electric heater, and that lower final-drive ratio." http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1080512_2013-ford-c-max-energi-plug-in-hybrid-first-drive

I see that you kept any dealer plate frames or stickers off it ... looks quite good in black! Best of luck with it --

Wow, you must have taken a big hit on a different brand '12 trade-in!! Besides deciding on our next car (we're downsizing from an '09 VW Routan --- Chrysler/Dodge minivan clone) my concern is the resale/trade for this VW against a Ford (you won't find many VW/Ford dealers out there so I'm sure they'll probably just send it to an auction) -- my folks own a '11 Sonata that I just drove again last weekend (its the redesigned model similar to yours), back support was OK but I found the driver's seat a little lacking on thigh support (drove it for a little over an hour). The passenger front seat is quite low as well but otherwise it was a decent ride with a huge trunk and smooth ride but no C-Max. Welcome to the forum --

+1 on the savings for dealer doc fees; apparently some states don't regulate these (ours adjust yearly for inflation), Ford will pay back the dealer for any difference from the $100 the buyer pays so most dealers are OK with it but, I've heard that some don't participate in X-pricing so it's always good to check before assuming that they do. I like seeing the actual pricing printed out so no negotiating (other than of course the trade-in).

Only question ... forgive me as I didn't notice if the C-Max seats themselves have built-in air bags but if they do make sure your seat covers accommodate them -- the Nissan LEAF has built-in seat airbags so you need to order some that allow for the bag to deploy

Came across this new video and write-up showing the rear seat and cargo area for the Energi -- the last video shows the seat folded as well as flipping up that rear parcel shelf. This tester mentions that offering a diesel version would have of course totally eliminated the space for the hybrid or plug-in battery. The first video mentions (at least the Ford guy does) that the only way to charge the Energi battery would be by plugging it in which I don't think is correct (at least on other EV's you do get some regen from the brakes) but I guess, IN GENERAL that's true (i.e., even going down the steepest hill for many miles I doubt you could fully recharge the Energi's battery pack but would be interesting to try!). The Energi is still a great step forward for Ford but like all new tech its expensive and perhaps not for everybody. http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/13/ford-c-max-energi-test-drive/

Thanks for sharing, very interesting take on the whole 'Ford copied the Prius' as well as Toyota not wanting its Prius V compared to the C-Max and especially the hint at the very end for the next gen Prius ... bottom line is I would think that people will definitely cross shop these two as to be honest there isn't much else out there at present that even comes close to these two, although (and I didn't check the cargo stats) the less cargo space available C-Max Energi might be cross shopped with the Prius plug-in as well as the Volt but perhaps not. What is interesting is when they were driving both on higher speed roads and how noticeably more quiet the C-Max was over the Prius V --- I can attest to that as well as the Prius V I test drove was 'boomy' at any speeds over 50 and lots of noise filtered into the cabin.

By far, this is the most popular read and updated forum for current and potential C-Max owners so give yourself a few kudos for that !! One suggestion that would make this a bit more easy to navigate is a site-wide 'mark all threads read' as when this thing starts to get real busy, I may only concentrate on a few rather than the whole thing --- no offense, but some I probably won't bother to read through, just not enough hours in the day! The other forum I read is mynissanleaf.com and believe me this helps as there are currently 173 threads that are considered 'active' which simply take too much time to go through. Sooner or later you'll also need to add some regional interest sections but you're not there quite yet. Keep up the great work !!

Yes, Ford has done a good job on the C-Max although it would have been a bit better if you could a-la-cart some of these options; I'm sure they get packaged to reduce the number of unique builds for these to reduce costs and I guess after all Ford does 'discount' if you buy a particular package as well. -- what I also found a bit amazing is that the C-Max is actually SHORTER than my LEAF (only 1.4 inches but it was a surprise) but of course its taller (by almost 3 inches) but this makes it still quite compact.

One other point to note as I didn't see it here, like some of the better backup camera systems, it will move the distance lines based on the steering wheel as well as the different colored lines will give you an idea of how far away the object is -- for instance, when I test drove an Energi and backed it into a space, the rep had mentioned that be sure to not go beyond the 6 foot mark so someone could check out the rear hatch area while it was parked (we backed up to the side a building); nice thing to have!! I have backup camera's on my LEAF (has distance lines but no alarm) and a VW Routan with no lines, no alarm and especially on the Routan (which the C-Max may replace) it would have been welcome.

Besides those at Chicago area dealers, have seen two C-Max Hybrid's in the wild; one in Palatine and one out in Long Grove (at Menard's at Lake Cook and 83); both were white which does seem to be a popular color.

Here is a good place to start ... http://www.pluginamerica.org/incentives For the most part, the older incentives for the 'regular' (non plug-in) hybrids are gone and now favor the full electric or plug-in hybrids; in the case of the C-Max just the plug-in Energi gets a $3,750 fed tax credit but the hybrid model does not (the designation for the Energi is PHEV for Plug-in, Hybrid, Electric Vehicle). You may also have state level incentives so this link will help out there as well; be sure to check for both vehicle and if going for a plug-in the equipment + install of a home EVSE 'charger' -- once again, the C-Max Hybrid model doesn't need one as it handles recharging by regenerating power via brakes and going down hills, etc. so no cord attached but then again no other incentives.

Hey StoBro2 welcome!!; I also live in the 'burbs outside of Chicago but no quite as far north. A bit surprised you would not have gone with a SEL versus SE (I like the leather seats, push button start, etc. in the SEL) but I'm sure you had your reasons. I actually like the higher seat height in crossovers, etc. as they give you a bit advance notice of what's ahead in traffic and as the C-Max isn't quite as high as some of them it may be a decent compromise on not being too top heavy as you mentioned. Will be curious on how our colder temps ahead effect the range; I'm already used to a few noises not found in gas only cars (my LEAF will emit a Jetson like noise on hard acceleration) but on the C-Max I test drove I could only detect something when the regen was kicking in and then only on the plug-in Energi not the straight hybrid (also drove a hybrid SEL whcih I'm leaning more towards).

My local dealer finally got an Energi in stock so was able to take a test drive ... driving experience actually very similar although this car seemed to make a bit more noise when braking, had the 'brake coach' setting on so I could see how fast the battery was losing it's EV miles --- seems to drops faster than my LEAF but then this C-Max is much heavier. IMHO the extra space taken by the battery in the Energi is pretty much a deal killer for me anyway, another IL dealer had posted pictures of theirs and I took another photo with a 9 1/2" brochure setting near it with the cover folded for perspective; you just lose a lot of space; if you don't need to carry much its probably OK but not for us which is too bad --- the hybrid version is still in the running though so we'll see!

Many dealers would leave these on and let the customer remove them as they help avoid any scratches by the techs doing final prep work but sometimes they may be a bit hard to actually see -- sometimes they'll ask you if you'd like them removed. The most important (and obvious) stuff like the white plastic wrap on the cars on the car carrier or any heavy waxy coating for transport gets removed as part of the prep work but sometimes they just miss a few of these ---

They also outsold the Prius V ... not bad just out of the gate like this "In its first full month of sales, Ford's new C-MAX Hybrid outsells Toyota Prius v, 3,182 units to 2,769" Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/11/02/4956666/ford-c-max-hybrid-outsells-toyota.html#storylink=cpy http://www.sacbee.com/2012/11/02/4956666/ford-c-max-hybrid-outsells-toyota.html

'Instant" depreciation once you drive it off the lot is a fact of life BUT, would only bother me 1) if the car was totaled and the insurance only paid out this reduced value; lease cars get 'gap' insurance and at least my auto insurer (Allstate) offers a new car replacement so I'm covered there as well and 2) if for whatever reason you need to sell it due to financial reasons, you know you're taking this loss. I'm waiting for edmunds.com to include the expected depreciation amounts for the C-Max but its simply too new to do so .. I've included a link for a '12 Focus Titanium which is a bit comparable but of course w/o the hybrid powertrain and first year depreciation is just under $4K so would assume your dealer is probably pretty close http://www.edmunds.c...style=101364750

Correct -- Ford lists the charging time as 7 hours on 120V; only 2.5 hours for 240V for the Energi -- of course zero for the hybrid, just regen braking will do it for you! http://media.ford.com/images/10031/2013_CMAX_Specs.pdf

An IL dealer posted these photos ... huge difference between the Energi and Hybrid out back https://www.facebook...=3&l=7ad7a9e727

Yes, saw that here as well ... that's a great start! I wonder if the Energi version will have the same appeal .. the PiP (plug-in Prius) has sold no where near what the 'regular' ones are doing but wonder what the ratio might be? http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/news/article.asp?docKey=600-201211010930PR_NEWS_USPRX____DE04273-1&params=timestamp%7C%7C11/01/2012%209:30%20AM%20ET%7C%7Cheadline%7C%7CFord%20Small%20Car%20Sales%20Reach%20Highest%20October%20in%2011%20Years%3B%20F-Series%20Sees%20Best%20October%20Sales%20Since%202004%7C%7CdocSource%7C%7CPR%20Newswire%7C%7Cprovider%7C%7CACQUIREMEDIA%7C%7Cbridgesymbol%7C%7CUS%3BF&ticker=F