SnowStorm

LOL :) Let's chuck both systems and measure speed in kilo-furlongs/fortnight (100km/hr = 167 kFur/Ftn - I think!). And for fuel economy, why, of course it is furlongs/firkin! (Or is it firkins/100 furlongs?!?) Somebody else "out yonder" can figure that one out! Quizz: Is that little stalk on the left side of the steering column a "turn signal" or a "directional"?

Or this?

So its not just an Energi drink? Is the packet in the glove box or where?

Maybe there needs to be a new paint option - "Distressed"! You get dings and scratches hand applied at extra cost right from the factory, just like those crazy jeans and beat-up new furniture. Seriously, it seems like our little Fit has collected more dings in 150,000 miles than all our other cars put together. Do small cars collect more dings? Or maybe its just getting nastier out there. Then there is the friend of ours who built a beautiful wooden canoe all covered in clear fiberglass. They're off down the river on the maiden voyage, wife's in front calling the turns and he's in back steering. She calls one direction to miss a rock, he goes the other and scrapes it. "Now," he says, "we don't have to worry about scraping it anymore"! Somehow I can't quite transfer that logic to a car.

We ordered an SE with winter package (not delivered yet) but the window sticker says: WINTER PACKAGE 295.00 PWR/HTD MIRR W/APPROACH LIGHT HEATED SEATS so it had better have heated seats as that's the main reason it was ordered! Don't know about the mats - would sure be nice but I thought they were separate. I don't know what the "approach light" is (but if the car can fly, it will be great for night landings!). As I understand it, all SEs are cloth seats.

The trains are running again! :happy feet: Our baby arrived at Jessup, MD last Friday. ETA is given as Apr 26 - sure hope that means we can pick it up then. We can have a great drive planned for the weekend! I'm going for 600 miles on the first tank! Any "bets" that it can be done? (Jus won't let me count "train miles" :sad: or it would be easy!)

Yours isn't the only brain getting strained! I sure wish the US had "gone metric" way back, decades ago, when it was being considered. I was telling someone from Japan just the other day how it had been about 85F for three days here, oops, no, that's, hurry up brain, 30C? I think I got it about right. (It is supposed to be 34 tonight - I mean 1C!) I also much prefer the L/100km. Its metric and, even better, flipped over - fuel on top, distance on bottom. Works much better for comparisons considering cost. An improvement of, say, 0.5 L/100km is always the same amount of fuel (or cost). Conversely, an improvement from 20 to 25 mpg is far more significant than one from 45 to 50 mpg. Converting is easy - just divide either one into 235 to get the other one. I found it quite interesting that 47 mpg converts to an even-up 5.0 L/100km. (Now if converting temperatures were just that easy!)

Stake the tomatoes? Lucky you! We have to wait a few more weeks to set them out. Planted "early" stuff 6 and 8 days ago. Radishes were up in 5 days flat. My kids always tease me about planting so many radishes but they're too yummy. Had some swiss chard survive all winter though. Never planted it before and really like it. Picked some on Thanksgiving and Christmas!

Would like to see the C-Max chart on the back of a T shirt! A big point of these charts is that a gasoline engine must be driven to high load (torque) output to be efficient (but not to high speed). If engines had equal efficiency at all load/speed combinations, I don't think there would be any point in using P&G or, for that matter, in building a hybrid at all!

Matt - a very nice discussion. I can't offer experience (car not delivered yet) but I do have some questions/comments (same point #s that you used). So if you P&G around 50 mph, say 45 to 55, it won't be any better than using CC at 50 mph? We travel quite a lot on nearly level roads with 55 limit. Averaging 35 or 40 would take too long. This makes sense, your average speed is less and the whole charge/discharge cycle may be more efficient. Gasoline engines are not very efficient at light loads so when it does run it needs to work fairly hard. Sure wish we had the graph for the gasoline engine that shows efficiency versus load and RPM. You could fine tune things with that info.Less engine run % makes sense too. All the energy must come from the engine so a low % value means it is working harder when it does run - pushing operation up into the more efficient region. Can't wait to try it all out!

In Virginia ( :wub2: ) new drivers must learn how to save gas. Code 22.1-205 says: "The program shall include instruction concerning .... (vi) fuel-efficient driving practices," Sorry guys, but this forum may become obsolete. :cry: Any other states out there that care about saving gas? Or does the Old Dominion remain; One State To Lead Them All.

Don't feed it two different kinds of "fuel" or they'll slap a hybrid tax on it! And look out for hybrid oats - stick to heirloom varieties only!

Ours is also "on the train" and should arrive about the same time! Enjoy your new car.

Blue, blue, my world is blue...

Just a minute now. Maybe we should stop reading all the "informed commentary" out there and read the bill (it is on line you know). http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?131+ful+CHAP0766 The following definition is included: " "Hybrid electric motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle that uses electricity and another source of motive power." I'm no linguist but this had better mean a "plug-in hybrid". That is, a car that uses "electricity" as a source of motive power and "another" source of motive power. If it gets interpreted to mean the "standard" hybrid (all motive energy comes from gasoline), then its lawsuit time. I've seen it called the "Prius tax" and it certainly sounds like its being popularly viewed as applying to all hybrids, plug-in or not. Hopefully this is just an early misinterpretation (intentional or not). (BTW, it seems to me that the above definition would include electric bicycles! So JAZ, we had better watch out!) An example seems in order. Take the EPA 15,000 miles per year, and $3.50/gal with the new 3.5% tax rate. A normal "good citizen" 40 mpg gasoline car pays $45.94 per year gas tax. A "bad citizen" hybrid car (still all gasoline) that also gets 40 mpg pays $64 + $45.94 = $109.94, or 2.4 times the "good guy". (Mr Coulter is rubbing off on me.) Drop the yearly mileage to 2000 miles (your grandma perhaps). "Good" grammy pays $6.74. "Bad" grammy pays $70.74, or 10.5 times as much on her fixed income. Even if you up the hybrid's MPG somewhat, the payment is still wildly disproportionate. Again, "all-gasoline" hybrids had better not be included in this bill! But we still have the Energi as a "Virginia Legal Hybrid" or VLH. I leave specific examples as "an exercise for the reader" but it still comes out pretty lousy. If you use no gasoline at all, you pay $64 a year which equates to about 21,000 miles worth of taxes in the non-hybrid. At 21 miles per charge that's 1000 full charges. Your going to have a lot of fun cramming 3 charges plus 63 miles into each day! (A pure electric would have to go 57 miles per day.) But as the man said, we can still thank the Governor for saving us $36 per year! :salute: (Actually, the rate was $50, went to $100, then $64. Go figure.) There are other "interesting" things in the bill but enough for now.

Dealer also reported today that our car is stuck on the train. :sad: As a kid I loved trains - now I'm not so sure! Wish you could still go to the factory and pick it up.

"C-Max Fever" (with apologies to John Masefield) I must off in the "C" again, with a Panoramic sky, And all I ask is a tall car and a road to steer her by, And the motor quick and the engine strong and the full charge making, And a broad grin on the driver's face, and a hundred braking. I must off in the "C" again, for the call of the pulse and glide Is a power call and a coasting call that many have not tried; And all I ask is a windless day with a C-Max flying, And the lack of sway and the absent boom, and the Pri' cars crying. I must off in the "C" again, to the leafy garden life, Then the straight-away and the back-road way with curves sharp as a knife; And all I ask is a mileage yarn from a knowing fellow Maxer And icy-cream and a good-night dream when the fun drive's over.

Why we ordered ours: Excellent EPA ratings (and, I believe, real-world when properly driven and compared) Can go up to 62 mph on battery alone "Wagon" body style for hauling lots of stuff (just don't care for sedans) Great headroom plus seat adjusts really high Lots of interior space especially for a relatively short car The Prius V alternative was never test driven (can't stand that dashboard - what you look at all the time!) along with the other oft quoted "cons" Great set of hybrid related gauges with lots of options Assembled in USA And of course, my wife and I just "liked it".

On its way! WHOOoo WHOOoo WHOOOOoooooo Choo Choo Choo Choo ..... Clunk! :sad: Oh no, cyberdman's kind report on blueovalforum says: "In Transit - Delay- Conveyance Mechanical Failure (Csx Transportation ) Walbridge, OH Apr-14-2013, 18:43 ET" I don't believe it, our baby is stuck in Ohio - sure hope she's OK. :baby: Bring back the storks! JohnnOhio - if you happen by the Csx yard in Walbridge, could you have a look for a white SE with the glass roof?

I've been wondering too about the tank characteristics/size on the C-Max. Our Fit will take up to 2.5 gallons more after the pump first kicks off if you "stuff the tank" (wait a bit and add another 0.2 gal). I have read that doing this can damage emission components so I've pretty much stopped it. But 2.5 gallons of "vapor head space" seems excessive. Pump accuracy bothers me though. Maybe we should return to the old pumps where the fuel was first pumped up into a big glass tank and from there into your car. You could see exactly how much you were getting.

This article (and links) leave a lot to be desired. They start with "we hope buyers will do the research...". You are then pointed to EPA Your MPG figures and Fuelly. So I did the research. 38.5 for 2013 C-Max on EPA 37.4 for 2009-2013 VW Sportwagon Auto on EPA 37.8 for 2013 C-Max on Fuelly 37.2 for 2009-2013 VW Sportwagon Auto onFuelly C-Max wins. They say that diesels "...may thrive under hard use--especially in frequent high-speed highway use." Interstate at 65 mph is not "hard use". It only takes about 15 to 20 HP to push a car at that speed. Wouldn't "hard use" mean at least 50% capacity of the engine? Seen many 40 HP cars lately? The whole statement is rather meaningless anyway - appears to be thrown in to make diesels "sound good". Then they say that "the newest hybrids don't come anywhere near their EPA ratings" followed by a snide remark directed at Ford. This is true but why is it twisted to sound like the Ford hybrids are "bad"? The "research" they had me do showed the hybrid is better (if only by a slight margin). You could rather say that the Fords EPA ratings exceed the real world averages (which are already excellent) and go off and fuss at the EPA rating system. Ford can't change the EPA numbers! The discrepancy is because the Ford hybrids are a better design than what existed before. The EPA tests aren't calibrated for hybrids that can run on electric power only up to 62 mph. See more on this subject at my post under this topic: http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/index.php?/topic/1523-treehugger-getting-to-the-bottom-of-fords-hybrid-fuel-economy-controversy/ A linked 2009 article claims that a trip that gave 41 mpg confirms reports that the EPA rating of 30/41 mpg is "far too low". (This was a "highway" trip from Atlanta to Amicalola Falls State Park.) 41 versus 41 - I don't get it. At the end they act like the $0.40 per gallon extra cost for diesel is no big deal. Nor do they point out that replacing timing belts on the VW adds another $0.45 per gallon equivalent (1.1 cents / mile) to your operating costs. (The C-Max has a chain.)Now I think diesels are great technology. But the money needed to operate the car long term is what counts. If diesel fuel didn't cost more, I would be all for a diesel hybrid. Best of both worlds.

The real issue with the 47 rating seems to be that we all have past experience in matching the EPA highway figure at "normal" interstate speeds. Then here comes the C-Max at 47 mpg and people are saying they can't get that mileage. I don't expect to get it either (steady 65-70). So what's wrong? I've given my analysis in this post: http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/index.php?/topic/1523-treehugger-getting-to-the-bottom-of-fords-hybrid-fuel-economy-controversy/ but the short version is that the C-Max is a "better" hybrid in that it can run at higher speeds on the battery alone. This means that the ICE runs less, and when it does, it operates more efficiently. (A gasoline engine is very inefficient at light loads.) The result is a great EPA rating because the tests average 48 mph and include starts and stops (for highway driving!). The EPA formulas are "calibrated" for conventional cars but just don't work for a "good" hybrid at steady interstate speeds. Another way to summarize is that the C-Max (or Fusion hybrid) should give great mileage on the interstate and superior mileage everywhere else. From all the numbers I've seen, I would use 38 mpg for 70 mph. Figure the savings from there. Its going to be really hard to get an exact figure without some very tightly controlled tests. Before ordering our C-Max we test drove a diesel but the higher fuel cost combined with the timing belt replacement cost (adds about 45 cents per gallon!) was not a good deal. Hope you find the right car.

Does the SEL have a video phone? When I'm driving and talking, my wife has to remind me to "please put your hands back on the steering wheel". Now I have another excuse!

April 10 - Build date! Our baby should be born! First say this date on ETIS on April 11. Checked right away and got the window sticker (I hadn't checked for a number of days).

Hey, that sounds "cool". It bugs me too having the garage get so hot with heat from a car. I never could figure out if less heat would end up in the garage if you leave it out for a while to cool off since the sun would be heating it back up! Now if EV+ is working, the C-Max will have shut the engine off early and things can cool down before you park. Neat. :)