Temp61

From Ohio My wife brought the keys in the other morning and said "give me yours". This is our 6th dead battery occurrence over the last 10 months and that is about 5 too many. My vehicle is a early build SE base model with the small 4.5" screen. Every time the dead battery has been after the car was parked overnight in our garage. I believe the issue has something to do with the Bluetooth connectivity on the Cmax. As a test, I disabled the bluetooth on my phone several months ago after reading about it in this forum as a potential source of the problem. Also have had no problems since the July software update and I thought I was home free....wrong assumption. I activated bluetooth again last week for some app that needed it on my phone and forgetting why I turned it off in the first place. I heard the bluetooth connection chirp on my phone inside the house which, I thought was odd but let it pass. Within a week the car was dead again. I have opened a case to have Ford replace the vehicle. I like the Cmax but would like it a lot better if it simply started in the morning.

to Toronto Energi From experience here...... you have to leave the light switch in either the off or auto position. If the switch is left in one of the middle two positions, it will cause a dead battery because the yellow side marker lights will stay on until the small 12v battery is dead. The only warning sound you get is the same chime sound that you get when you turn the key to start the car, so it's real easy to miss. The chime starts when you open the door to get out and quits when the doors is shut so it might only be 3 seconds if you are quick getting out. Poor logic on Ford's part, they need an automatic timeout after 15 minutes or so. There are enough computers on board to send the car to the moon so should be room on one of them to turn lights off. from Ohio

ceemax 71 1.) Do you have any information about what this new TSB is addressing? I believe the May 13-5-01 TSB allows for harder charging of the 12v battery from the large one and I have had that one installed. 2.) question #2. In Ohio we are required to have our lights on when it's raining. Since the Cmax doesn't have Daylight Running Lamps, I have to reach down and manually turn on the headlights. When I pull into the garage and turn the car off, the head lights go off, I go into the house and "life is good". Eight hours later the car is dead. The reason for the dead battery is that the amber side marker lights stay on and the only warning signal you get is the same pleasant chime you hear when you insert the key to start the car. When the lights are left on, the car will chime 2 or 3 times when you open the door and stop as soon as you close the door. I'm so used to the chime sound that it's easy to ignore and having the amber lights on is normal if you have a home delay setting programmed in. If you are not listening for it, you are in trouble. so here's the question..... what's Ford's logic in turning off the big lights when the key is turned off but leaving the side marker lamps on, which slowly drains the battery? They probably have a reason, but for me, a more obnoxious warning sound would get my attention and save frustration over a drained battery. from Ohio

From Ohio I enjoy watching this forum. We all own a great vehicle (in concept) and are all amateur detectives involved in a game of CMax Clue.... who did it and who will solve it first? I knew going in on my purchase that first generation vehicles will give you a run for your money but I bought because I believe the concept is solid. My chief problem now, after 5 dead batteries, is that my wife will not take her car outside of a 20 mile radius from town. I offered her a crank from an old Model T but she just shook her head....... We're not as smart as the brains in Detroit and Seattle but I'm guessing the Ford engineers & Microsoft techies are beating the hell out of each other pointing fingers...."not my fault". I'm a patient guy but I told Ford that one more time will be the straw that broke the camel's back. My car has run fine for 6 weeks since all TSB's have been applied and wiring harness checked but I don't believe they have found the root cause for the problem.

does anybody know if Ford engineers are working on a redesign for the electrical harness? i have the dates on my overnight dead batteries so i'll to go back and try to correlate them with weather conditions the prior day.

Question to flatbat I'm assuming you parked your car last night after it ran fine all day and the battery was dead this morning. If so, that follows the 5 time I have gone out to use my car and found it dead. It points to one of the computer modules starting up in the middle of the night and directing something to draw current. I'm guessing the EVAP system but it's speculation on my part.

from Ohio I also prefer a forum that focuses on the issue in a positive manner. We enjoy our Cmax but it has a problem without a solution. It's at the dealer and we are in a rental that is being paid for by Ford. I have zero confidence in the latest TSB that boosts the charging voltage of the battery. My car has a voltage drain problem, not a voltage charge problem. We are at the point where we don't want it back until they have a fix. Ford has a problem that needs to be fixed soon or it will damage the marketability of their hybrid models from both ends, the customer and the dealer. The Service Manager at my dealership is taking this personally and is extremely frustrated. I simply want a solution or a replacement that does not have the problem.

poll from Ohio Just checking on the timing of your dead batteries. I have had 5 occurrences, each time the battery is dead at the beginning of the day when the car sat overnight. That suggests to me, at least related to my car, the issue is related to an extended amperage drain from one of the control modules that does not shut down. The battery is small so any amperage drain could be significant. The latest TSB relates to recharging issue on short trips. That being the case, logic would point to dead batteries occurring during the day. All it does is boost the charging voltage which I don't think will solve the issue. Just post a short note if your dead batteries are during the day or overnight. Thanks

From Ohio. My Cmax follows the same pattern as most of the problem vehicles. Early build date, base SE model, 4.5" radio display. Erwhitham - thanks for the compliment on my technical knowledge but it comes from jacking the vehicle up, putting stands under it, crawling under my new car and carefully placing a long screwdriver against all parts near the rear axle. First I found the vibration, then after checking to make sure the part had nothing to do with the large battery pack above it, I listened to my screwdriver and confirmed the noise. Crawling out from under my car with pride, I felt like a "undercar detective". A few hours research on the Internet increased my knowledge base about large and small leak tests, all mandated from the EPA dept. in Washington DC, not Ford. The tests are now so sophisticated that it takes a Motorola processor in the control module to run the tests. I believe the large leak test is performed while the engine is running and the small leak test starts a few minutes after you turn your car off. Ford will fiind the problem but I'm afraid my wife might leave me if it doesn't happen soon & no doubt I'll see her taking our other reliable car as she disappears down the driveway. That's okay, I have a bicycle plus a stationery car on jack stands to look at.

From Ohio My wife emailed this morning that her Cmax was dead again. This is the 5th time we have had the battery drain issue. An hour ago the Cmax went down the street on the back of a tow truck. The bad news is that we have had all the TSB's installed except the recent DC/DC converter voltage boost one issued last week. I have traced an issue on my car to the EVAP Canister Purge Valve assembly which is an assembly attached to the underside of the car above the rear axle. After I drive the car and then park it, there is a delay of about 10 minutes and then a relay kicks in and the solenoid on the valve assembly starts to hum. It will cycle on for a minute and then off for about 10 seconds. After 15 minutes it stops. I recorded the sound on my cell phone and have it ready for the service department at my local Ford dealership. I think it is the Engine Off Leak Test which Ford calls EONV (engine off natural vacuum) and my guess is that the control module continues to call for the test for a small leak over and over again. It doesn't take a lot of current for the test but if repeated enough times it could be draining the relatively small 12v battery. My dead batteries have all been in the morning after the car sat overnight. My local dealer has been great, they are very concerned and frustrated that a fix has not been found. I'll keep you posted.

Update from Ohio My Cmax has been working just fine for 2 weeks after the updated software patch was downloaded and applied for the FCDIM. A few minutes ago I went out into my garage and heard a humming sound behind the passenger side rear wheel. The ambient temperature of the garage is 48 degrees f. and the car hasn't been driven in about 4 hours. There is no reason for anything to be running so I'll wait till tomorrow morning to see if it will start. It appears Ford still has a little software work to do.

I got my car back earlier this week after it was at the dealership for 9 days. They reprogrammed the FCDIM module (4.5" radio screen) for the second time with updated software from Ford's IDS system software.. They then let it sit outside for 7 days and checked it every morning for stability. I believe they are narrowing the issue down to the software in the Front Console Display Interface Module (FCDIM). The initial software modifications that were applied were not stable. My car is acting normal again but only time will tell if they have a fix. If you are having 12 v battery problems, call your Service Manage and tell him you want the latest software modification for the FCDIM installed. Don't take no for an answer. We can all report success or failure via this forum. running again in Ohio

Answers to Salman's questions. SE model, 6k mikes, 4.5" radio screen, heated seats. 4 dead battery occasions. They started in early Feb. I jumped it the first three times and had it towed in the 4th. Every time is was as the car was parked overnight in a garage. All instances were reported to Service Mgr. I used my cell phone video recorder to record all 4 turn signals blinking in the middle of the night. I also used the audio on the cell phone to record a relay trying to energize near the hood hinge on driver's side. Shared both with Service Manager. The dealer has the rear hatch open and a ammeter hooked up in series to the battery to measure current draw. Day one and two were okay, battery draw very low. Day three they started to see an amperage much higher than normal. They can also hear the relay clicking and traced it to the ABS circuit. I believe someone from Ford is coming in this week to support them, it's a larger problem than any dealer should be expected to diagnose. I'm in a rental car and in no hurry to get the car back. I want it fixed so my wife will drive her car again. The Cmax is a great concept and I'm sure the pressure is mounting in Detroit to find the cause.

I have posts in another battery forum but this one seems to have the traction to get Ford's attention. My Cmax is sitting in the service bay of a very good Ford dealer in Ohio. They are working their butts off to solve the problem but it is obviously a very complex problem for corporate Ford. My guess is that the problem has nothing to do with the 12v battery, the battery is just victim to something that want electricity while the car is at rest. It might be a signal waking up one of the many computers(modules) when the car is at rest and activating a high current load that drains the battery. Normal current draw on the battery at rest should be approx 20 miliamps per the Service Manager. I heard a clicking noise under the hood near the drivers side hood hinge. After a day sitting in the service bay at normal current draw they started to see a 350 milliamp current level and could hear the clicking sound. Key removed and put at a distance from the vehicle did not solve the problem. One of the computers is trying to active the ABS anti lock brake system which I assume would be a high current draw. Corporate Ford is coming down next week to investigate. Open question. to forum users.......if the anti lock brake system is activated at rest to the point it runs down the battery, is there a chance that damage would occur to the ABS module or shortening of it's life . My car is in for service so I don't know who the supplier of the module is or how it works. Ford will solve the problem. I'm sure there are a few engineers in Detroit on the hot seat right now.

From Ohio More progress.... normal amperage draw from the battery while in sleep mode should be around 18 - 20 milliamps per Service Mgr. My car is at the dealership hooked up to a Fluke meter where they are measuring a 350 milliamps load after it sits overnight. This car has all the software updates which corporate thought is the fix. They are doing a good job and communicating with corporate Ford constantly. The clicking sound I recorded on my cell phone is under the hood and has been traced to a relay which is trying to energize the ABS system that has a high current load on the battery. Local dealership is sticking with it and determined to find the cause. Ford is sending in an engineer to analyse the issue early next week. At least they have a problem they can see and work on instead of just dead batteries. Something is waking up one of the computers....perhaps a signal from our new rover on Mars...