JayTXLG Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Anyone thought about a battery charger for the Hybrid, so you don't have to run the engine to charge the batteries if you are making a bunch of short trips? I know the the business case to install something along this line would probably close the gap with the Energi version. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 The cost of adding this to the car would far exceed any economy gains. There has been discussion of it though, I am not sure if its here or on the Energi site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkngale Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 I am wondering about this too - it couldn't be that expensive to do, could it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Attaching a charger to the lithium battery is the easy part. Actually using it without burning down your house is the hard part. The real issue is that a lithium battery has to be charged very carefully to avoid going over the upper voltage limit, or you risk destroying the battery or potentially igniting it on fire. And you can't just throw 300v at the battery like do with lead-acid, you have to manage each individual cell within the battery, and there's something like 70-80 of them in the Hybrid. Our cars have a sophisticated Battery Management System (BMS) that is watching each cell of the battery and preventing overcharging (or over depleting). If you try to hook up a charger and bypass the BMS, you are going to fry your battery. If you try to use the existing BMS that Ford put in, then you have to make sure the computer is awake and aware of what you are doing, which probably requires talking to the internal software. And if you try to implement your own BMS, then you have some serious engineering and $$ in effort. That's all a very long-winded way to say that Valkraider is right, it's a costly an difficutl task, and it's better to just buy and Energi in the first place. jkngale 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 If it was truly inexpensive, simple and easy, Ford would do it - sell it as an accessory for 300% markup - and spin it as some sort of PR. But it's not. Kits to "add a charger" to the regular Prius (which didn't even have LiIon batteries) cost several thousands of dollars and involve some serious hacking. All in all - if it "seems simple" but wasn't done there was probably a reason the OEM didn't do it in the first place. All OEMs want bragging rights so there has to be a reason it wasn't incorporated to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) -double post, ignore this- Edited March 18, 2013 by valkraider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAZ Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 -double post, ignore this-Darn! Read it before I could ignore it. valkraider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemax71 Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 I believe Ford actually has a charger that can charge the high voltage traction battery.If they didn't how could they bring a hybrid back to life if the high voltage battery was discharged to the point that it couldn't start the gas engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 I believe Ford actually has a charger that can charge the high voltage traction battery.If they didn't how could they bring a hybrid back to life if the high voltage battery was discharged to the point that it couldn't start the gas engine?Our cars have a sophisticated Battery Management System (BMS) that is watching each cell of the battery and preventing overcharging (or over depleting). If you try to hook up a charger and bypass the BMS, you are going to fry your battery. If you try to use the existing BMS that Ford put in, then you have to make sure the computer is awake and aware of what you are doing, which probably requires talking to the internal software. And if you try to implement your own BMS, then you have some serious engineering and $$ in effort.Probably not cheap or easy, at least to sell to public... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemax71 Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Probably not cheap or easy, at least to sell to public... And not very safe with the 300 volts DC on the cables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 I believe Ford actually has a charger that can charge the high voltage traction battery.If they didn't how could they bring a hybrid back to life if the high voltage battery was discharged to the point that it couldn't start the gas engine?There's already an on-board charger, it's just connected to MG2, which is connected to the ICE engine. Pull the plug off that, plug it into an external 300v power supply, and the car will charge very nicely. Of course, who knows how deep you are inside the engine compartment before you get to that plug, and you still have to have a 300v supply sitting around. Or skip the electrical connection, and just mechanically start the ICE, and it'll spin MG2 and start charging up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemax71 Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Or skip the electrical connection, and just mechanically start the ICE, and it'll spin MG2 and start charging up again.They could put a crank on it like the first Ford Model T. :) jkngale and pomtrey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkngale Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Doesn't the Energi already do this? If it does, doesn't it prove that they can not only do it, but it's also not too terribly expensive? I mean, most of the increase in cost is in the battery and the couple extra standard features, right? I guess the complication comes in making it an "add on" - when it's already in the connection, it's easy, but to retrofit would be expensive and complicated. That's what I'm hearing... ...but part of me can't help thinking - if the Energi can.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Yes, it can. It only takes different hardware, software, and wiring. That costs a couple thousand dollars. No one has ever said it wasn't possible. Just that it would not be worth it for the extra mile per gallon. You might spend $1000 to $2000 trying to make this work and void all your warranties and get an extra mile a day of electric range. Or you could spend the extra $5000 and get then Energi before the tax credits go away, and take $3751 off that for a net increase of $1300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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