Has anyone installed an amplifier in their C-Max?

[HotPotato]

The stock stereo is okay in the SE -- JUST okay -- but I've been dancing around an upgrade for some time.

Last night I ordered an Alpine KTP-445U amplifier and JL Audio C3 convertible component speakers.

 

Frankly I'm nervous whether the amp will screw anything up:

• Has anybody found a wiring harness by Metra, etc. that plugs into our existing harness so we don't have to cut a bunch of wires? The C-max does not exist in any installer database I could find. 
• Does our radio circuit have at least a 15 amp fuse? (I think 20 is typical for Ford but not certain in our case.) The KTP-445U is a super-efficient digital amp that can share the radio's power wire rather than requiring an amp kit, as long as this is the case.
• Will the car's active noise cancellation still work, or will the amp mean the out-of-phase sound is too loud and thus increases road noise instead of canceling it?
• Will the lady that lives in my dashboard retain a normal speaking voice, or will she shout at me?
• Will my car's blessed exemption from the 12volt battery problems continue, or will adding draw to the system strain it to where it malfunctions? 
• Will cutting wires in the wiring harness to install the amp, threaten my warranty?

The cost of the equipment...and installation, in the extremely likely event I leave it to a professional...is daunting enough even before all that...

[mtb9153]

Sorry have no experience with this as I find the factory system to be fine for my needs.

[jmckinley]

You better get the Group 96 battery.  The little original equipment one won't handle much more load.  In fact, in a lot of people's cars, it won't handle the stock stuff for very long.

[HotPotato]

I don't expect the battery would be a problem... factory upgrade stereo is either 390 watts or 100, depending who you ask, and mine will be 180.

[HotPotato]

Well, this is odd. Car stereo shop went to install amp today and could not. Says there is no audio signal behind receiver, ie they think receiver is wired to an external amp that turns on when it gets a data signal or something, and they don't know what the power output of that amp is or where it is. I thought the base stereo had only "deck power," no external amp. Does it have an external amp? Where? What is its output? Turned on how? How can I find out? Anybody got a wiring diagram for the harness?

 

Obviously we could tap the speaker wires instead of going behind the radio, but the output power might be too high to use as line-level amp input, if there's already a factory amp. The front speakers they removed were stamped with "25 W max," so this alleged factory amp's output can't be more than 25 W, but that would be too powerful to use as line-level input, no?

 

On top of which, the super expensive speakers I had them install, don't sound much better than stock. Not sure if there just isn't enough power to drive them in the absence of an aftermarket amp (these speakers are designed for sound quality, not efficiency), or the shop reversed polarity when installing (they mentioned BOTH speaker wires were black), or there's nasty factory EQ that needs to be removed with a processor, or what, but I'm not thrilled.

 

Also the Sync lady's voice is maybe 1/3 the normal volume now. Anyone know where the menu (if any) is to adjust her voice, or whether her voice comes out of all 4 speakers?

 

Will x-post on Focus Fanatics bc presumably it's the same radio, and they have lots of audio hobbyists.

 

The moral of the story for now is, if you're contemplating buying a car with the factory audio upgrade vs one without...DO IT. It's going to cost you more to put in two good front speakers and the power to run them, than to have an entire 5-channel HD touch-screen high-power system from the factory, and the factory sound will likely be better. (We're at $500 parts and labor so far, just for two front speakers---still no amp or rear speakers. Insane.)

[RachelnLa]

Yes. You can adjust her voice in settings.

[zhackwyatt]

Another way to adjust the volume, is to change the volume knob, while she is speaking.

[JohnnOhio]

Try checking European CMaxes for anything about upgrading the radio. I've seen a video on utube about replacing speakers

[HotPotato]

So, update: with 4 speakers and amp installed, still sounded bad. Added AudioControl LC6i line output converter for better signal to amp; still sounded bad. But with iPod hooked directly to the amp, not bad, suggesting the culprit is the equalization curve in the factory radio. Next step will be to swap the LC6i for an Audison Bit One processor, which removes the factory EQ curve and offers a 31-band EQ adjustable via laptop. If it doesn't work, this project will officially end in failure.

 

In the old days, it was always cheaper and better to get the base stereo and upgrade it in the aftermarket. No more. Parts and labor, I now would have been ahead to get the equipment group upgrade with Sony stereo and nav, which folks seem to agree sounds very good.

 

We'll see - maybe it will sound amazing...

[StoBro2]

Could there be an issue with the active noise cancellation feature built into the C-Max audio system?

[HotPotato]

The bad sound was the same whether at rest with ignition off or moving with ignition on. I'm told a subwoofer is out of the question though, because in cars with active noise cancellation (Honda Accord, ours) it will cause a whoomp-whoomp noise due to the noise cancellation system. Some Honda guys disconnect the mikes. I'd rather leave them in but put in a switch on that circuit that switches between sub on and mikes on, should I decide to add a sub.

Edited April 18, 2013 by HotPotato

[HotPotato]

Update: processor installed.

 

Before the processor arrived, I had the iPod plugged directly into the amp, bypassing the factory head unit altogether -- and hence bypassing the factory HU's EQ and time alignment presets. This alone made the sound much better -- a wide-open soundstage instead if the closed-in factory sound, flat frequency response rather than the boomy factory tune, and the rear speakers came alive.

 

Now with the bit Ten processor installed, I'm running everything thru the factory HU again. And, surprise! the soundstage is again cramped, the midbass is again overboosted, and the rear speakers again sound like they're playing from the bottom of a well. The Bit Ten is supposed to remove factory EQ but honestly I think all it does is remove factory bass rolloff at high volumes I will never visit. It does however come with a great 31 band EQ, which I have used to greatly improve the sound. IIRC I have -3db at 125 Hz, -6db at 160 Hz, -6db at 200 Hz, -3 db at 250 Hz. For now I also have +3 db at 63 Hz and +3 db at 4 kHz, plus configuring the front crossovers for more tweeter presence. All this has made the sound pretty good, but it could be better. Next I could EQ each speaker individually (I did only the front as a pair), verify that the shop set the amp levels correctly (the bit Ten's gain should be set low and the amp's high, and they appear to have it set up the other way round), and maybe even try the de-EQ process again in case it didn't "take" when they did it.

 

The noise cancellation does not appear to be interfering with the stereo; whether the reverse is true, I can't say.

[Kidonedatone]

Dang man what a headache from the sounds of it.... I just ordered a Sound Ordnance 8 inch sub to put under my seat so that I get some lows. The audio just sounds way too pitchy for me... Hopefully I don't get that fabled womp womp noise you mentioned due to the Noise Cancellation... Yeah... Gone are the days of getting the low end audio package and beefing it up... I'll keep you posted as I may get this all installed this week.

[HotPotato]

Dang man what a headache from the sounds of it.... I just ordered a Sound Ordnance 8 inch sub to put under my seat so that I get some lows. The audio just sounds way too pitchy for me... Hopefully I don't get that fabled womp womp noise you mentioned due to the Noise Cancellation... Yeah... Gone are the days of getting the low end audio package and beefing it up... I'll keep you posted as I may get this all installed this week.

 

Cool, very interested to hear what happens! If the sub works, I may follow your lead and throw that in the mix too, and then see if I can find a shop with a Bit Tune machine to tune the Audison properly. Way too many variables for me to account for them all. 

[jockamobeatz]

I have a ford C-max SE.  I thought the stock radio had sirius but i was wrong...FAIL.  Is there anyway to upgrade the radio head unit?  I havent been able to find any deck installation kits,

[HotPotato]

None of the Ford-specific wiring harnesses, dash kits, or Sync retention units are said to fit the US-spec C-Max.

 

Seems like if Sirius is a choice on the menu (albeit grayed-out), then either Ford or the aftermarket may have plans to offer a Sirius module. Meanwhile maybe you could install a universal Sirius tuner. Or...do they have a smartphone app?

[jockamobeatz]

I have an after market xm tuner installed. sounds like shit tho.  Im running the audio through the 3.5mm jack under the arm rest.  I think XM sound quality might just be terrible.  Sounds like 64kbps.  When I play a CD or Pandora through bluetooth or ipod through USB it sounds good.  Im hoping that a wiring harness and/or dash kit comes out soon so I can just replace the radio all together and put in my own receiver.

[zhackwyatt]

I have an after market xm tuner installed. sounds like shit tho.  Im running the audio through the 3.5mm jack under the arm rest.  I think XM sound quality might just be terrible.  Sounds like 64kbps.  When I play a CD or Pandora through bluetooth or ipod through USB it sounds good.  Im hoping that a wiring harness and/or dash kit comes out soon so I can just replace the radio all together and put in my own receiver.

I agree, the USB stick in the car sounds way better than SIRIUS.

 

I'm thinking about not resubscribing when my trial is up.

[Kidonedatone]

Okay so I got the 8" sub installed and it sounds okay but now I wish I just got a 10" as it doesn't fill in the lows too nice... Boo... Anyways I found out something that may be helpful for any future projects (pending you don't know this already).  The factory amp is located behind the glove box at the top right. The guy doing my installation showed me and told me this would be the best place to tap the speakers. Makes allot of sense because from this point you can decide weather to tap before or after the factory amp. In any case I now have a blueprint to work off of if I decide to upgrade my subs or add a 4 channel. The person I went to also said we are okay to use the stock battery up to a certain point. Meaning if i gets to the point where you will be adding cap, or a high watt amp, we will have to change the battery out for something more powerful. At that point personally i wouldn't want to do it because the draw can affect our MPG. I think the factory speakers will work fine but I suggest getting a sub to fill out those lows. I bought this: 

 

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-8WQm5TS3yid/p_777B8PT/Sound-Ordnance-B-8PT.html

 

I suggest maybe taking it a step or two higher. I didn't account for square footage in my car so the sub may be a little too weak for what I wanted.

 

 

PS- If you want a picture of where the factory amp is located let me know. I would probably be able to do that sometime this week.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Kidonedatone

[HotPotato]

Wow!  I would LOVE a picture of where to find the amp. That would definitely help solve my problem!!!

 

 

Okay so I got the 8" sub installed and it sounds okay but now I wish I just got a 10" as it doesn't fill in the lows too nice... Boo... Anyways I found out something that may be helpful for any future projects (pending you don't know this already).  The factory amp is located behind the glove box at the top right. The guy doing my installation showed me and told me this would be the best place to tap the speakers. Makes allot of sense because from this point you can decide weather to tap before or after the factory amp. In any case I now have a blueprint to work off of if I decide to upgrade my subs or add a 4 channel. The person I went to also said we are okay to use the stock battery up to a certain point. Meaning if i gets to the point where you will be adding cap, or a high watt amp, we will have to change the battery out for something more powerful. At that point personally i wouldn't want to do it because the draw can affect our MPG. I think the factory speakers will work fine but I suggest getting a sub to fill out those lows. I bought this: 

 

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-8WQm5TS3yid/p_777B8PT/Sound-Ordnance-B-8PT.html

 

I suggest maybe taking it a step or two higher. I didn't account for square footage in my car so the sub may be a little too weak for what I wanted.

 

 

PS- If you want a picture of where the factory amp is located let me know. I would probably be able to do that sometime this week.

[11StiLimited]

Wow!  I would LOVE a picture of where to find the amp. That would definitely help solve my problem!!!

DITTO :)

[Kidonedatone]

Will do! Ill try to get a picture for you guys this weekend... I've got a busy week of work so bare with me. On a side note I managed to increase the audio quality overall. Turns out the guy set the balance all the way to the rear and I'm thinking the noise cancellation picks up on that. So I just set the audio two notches behind center and now she kicks just fine. Ahhh... Relief...  I thought there was no hope with this setup but now I'm happy with the sounds quality!

Edited May 8, 2013 by Kidonedatone

[HotPotato]

Welp, car stereo shop says they had found the amp we refer to, but it's not an amp per se but rather the Sync module, and as mentioned before they couldn't get a line-in signal because the line into it was digital, not analog.

 

There is such a thing as an Audison Bit Ten D, which accepts a digital line in, so it's odd they didn't try going with that. Hm.

 

Anyway, I continue tweaking the EQ and continue getting better sound. Will post values when I'm happy with it.

[Kidonedatone]

Cool man. I will still work on the photo for future reference. Looks like our two installers see the module in a different way. I have a line out converter running off that amp/sync module and it works for me. Too bad you're not in Chicago otherwise I can have this guy check your issue out.

[11StiLimited]

Still could use a picture, particularly of the connections to the amp/sync module.  All I want is a clean signal to send to a pre-amped pc subwoofer.  Pics of the bit Ten D would be nice, too.  Really want to add some bass, but not willing to really cut and chop the electronics of this car if it isn't worth it.