My 2c: EV driving

[Jus-A-CMax]

If its youtube, just simply copy and paste the link.

 

While I understand the eco-cruise, I still don't think its that efficient - however, next Monday, I will do my morning route to work in eco-cruise and see but driving conditions with morning traffic will vary.

[RaPieR]

You will probably do better by feathering but it is too much concentration and effort for me to do everyday that early in the morning hehe. It gets the job done. I can pulse ip if I need to and turn cruise off if I need to coast. It has to go hand in hand with looking ahead and timing lights/traffic

[salsaguy]

i was able to download the video and watch it.lots of background noise but i guess the pix was the main thing.so you got it up to 35mph or so and kicked on the cruise? or did you just back off the throttle to get it into EV mode?

looked like a  1 bar burn after EV kicked in.

Edited July 27, 2013 by salsaguy

[RaPieR]

Main point like just-a-cmax was saying, is to use two bars to get up to speed around the speed limit then back off to kick in ev. Using eco-cruise, it goes into ev when you hit the cruise button as long as you aren't pushing the gas enough to speed up. Then you can adjust speed for traffic and lights by pressing the throttle to pulse up again or hit the cancel cruise button to coast. It's not as efficient as doing it manually especially if it is hilly but it takes only a little bit of practice and not as much concentration as manually feathering the throttle.

[mtb9153]

Good input guys, thanks.  Enjoyed seeing your driving style RaPieR

[ScubaDadMiami]

I saw mixed results today.  However, I didn't drive my usual route at the usual time.  It was more like a test under varied conditions.  I actually lost some mpg today.  :sad:

 

For fairly heavy traffic, it seemed that the stomp to two bars, even if very brief, was less efficient than gentle feathering and gliding.  However, once you reach areas where you can glide for longer stretches, you come out ahead with the stomp and glide.

 

Secondly, it seems that the stomp and glide is like a longer term investment that yields higher returns but costs a little more in the early stages.  By that, I mean that I get worse FE on short trip than I do by gentle feathering.  However, after a certain distance of travel, I am back to even with where I would be with gentle feathering.  After that, it is bonus FE by using stomp and glide.

 

Using two bars, I went up some of the steepest bridges in my area, and this was at 45 to 55 mph zones.  What a fun ride, even if it costs a squirt or two of gas.  :woot:

 

I ended out getting caught in peak rush hour, with bumper to bumper traffic, too.  There was nothing I could do.  Too many errands to run.  I tried to rationalize that I was testing for this driving condition, but even in the C-MAX, that part was not so much fun.

[RaPieR]

I saw mixed results today.  However, I didn't drive my usual route at the usual time.  It was more like a test under varied conditions.  I actually lost some mpg today.  :sad:

 

For fairly heavy traffic, it seemed that the stomp to two bars, even if very brief, was less efficient than gentle feathering and gliding.  However, once you reach areas where you can glide for longer stretches, you come out ahead with the stomp and glide.

 

Secondly, it seems that the stomp and glide is like a longer term investment that yields higher returns but costs a little more in the early stages.  By that, I mean that I get worse FE on short trip than I do by gentle feathering.  However, after a certain distance of travel, I am back to even with where I would be with gentle feathering.  After that, it is bonus FE by using stomp and glide.

 

Using two bars, I went up some of the steepest bridges in my area, and this was at 45 to 55 mph zones.  What a fun ride, even if it costs a squirt or two of gas.  :woot:

 

I ended out getting caught in peak rush hour, with bumper to bumper traffic, too.  There was nothing I could do.  Too many errands to run.  I tried to rationalize that I was testing for this driving condition, but even in the C-MAX, that part was not so much fun.

You have to adjust how much you pulse based on traffic to try to keep as constant a speed as possible.  For example if a light turns green and you are close enough to pulse pass or if you're too far then you'd coast to try and time the light.  If you have you to keep pulsing from a complete stop, you'll kill your mileage.

[Jus-A-CMax]

SDM...Rather than do a whole trip and say 1 bar vs 2 bar burn....SDM, repeat what I did in my other thread with just one stretch of road and do the 1 br vs 2 bar to 35 mph and cut off and read the Trip to see how much gas you took to get up to 35mph from zero. NO EV start though. Are you using regular gas too SDM - cause if you are, then that would make it really interesting if your results vary...

[mtb9153]

Jus I'm not using Premium, when I did results just weren't worth the extra cost.

[ScubaDadMiami]

Premium gas from Costco.

[mtb9153]

I rarely fill at Costco since the closest one which sells gas in my area is across town.  Plus when I am over there I never need gas.  There is a Super Safeway near me which pumps gas and their prices are very close to Costco which is why there is always a huge line and why I never go there for gas.

[11StiLimited]

Great thread, TY.

[C-Maxgo]

Yes! Wait till you try 2 1/2 bars. You have to experiment with it, don't be afraid of it and thats why I say, its not always SLOW to be efficient. Remember I started a thread "Punch it up the hill" such a long time ago...and thats when you use the engine at 2 1/2 to 3 bar burn in a second or 2 second - in such a short burst but it produces such torque, it really propels your CMax up these small grades - better than a 1 bar slow burn...and yet no one noticed...and I live up the hills, I'll be darn if I don't know what I am talking about... ;)

 

How long are the hills you "Punch"?  Are they miles long or short like a quarter mile?

[Jus-A-CMax]

How long are the hills you "Punch"?  Are they miles long or short like a quarter mile?

 

Very short....100 yards (1 burst) to 200 yards (2 burst). Gun and back off, let the momentum pull you up and repeat.

[ScubaDadMiami]

I have been using this technique, for the past couple of days.  Some things are working for me, and some are not.  Miami has pretty bad traffic.  However, I usually go out on my route during times that the traffic is not bad.  Coming home is usually fairly congested.  There are stops for traffic lights throughout the ride.

 

What I have been finding is that I end out stomping for such short periods of time that the SOC does not get enough charge.  So, I then end out having to purposely ICE my SOC back up with gentle feathering.  No big deal, if it leads to overall better numbers.  I am coming to that part.

 

Before I do, let me mention that this attempt has been killing my breaking score!  I often end out, even with short stomps, getting up to speed just in time for the light to change in a way that always seems to make me have to get breaking scores ranging from the 70's to 80's, which I never normally do.  Otherwise, I am already catching the car in front of me.  (Who said the C-MAX has no torque or power?  :shift: )  If I go with the gentle feathering on these parts of the trip, I do much better with things like traffic lights and traffic congestion (but not purely bumper to bumper type of traffic). 

 

Short trips also get worse FE for me, so far.  Conversely, once I get to the part of the road where I can keep moving along, I start to gain FE.  I can see where this pays off more for every additional mile traveled. 

 

So far, my conclusion is that this will be a useful tool for the right conditions.  For slower and congested travel, I am losing ground, at this point.  Perhaps things will change as my new C-MAX, with barely 2,000 miles, starts to hit its stride.

[Jus-A-CMax]

Hee...don't run into the car in front of you SDM, thats not the idea...

 

70s to 80s is bad, it means you've not trained yourself to survey the road ahead enough. Watch those pedestrain lights as clues and if I can't see those traffic or pedestrian lights - I back off the speed a wee bit or drop the burn to 3/4 (or back to <1 for a battery recharge)...its really a great exercise to see if your foot can handle this sensitivity.

 

If I see, sometimes, I pour on the speed to cross the road before the yellow finish. Only time I get those 70s is when I misjudge the light and sometimes for good reasons - such as a major :airquote: dodgy intersection.

 

However, don't sweat over the low brake scores, I really don't believe those 70s and 80s will kill your FE in the long run...its always what you use in the gas that counts, not how much recharge you :airquote: potentially got back. A slight downgrade in the road can more than make up for 1 bad poor score or 1 less squirt of the gas will do the same thing, or if you find a KILLER road, you can make bad braking all day long and still smash the 47 MPG rating.

 

Keep trying and I like to see your comments - I think you learnt something from this thread.

 

PS I have not seen your CMax gas burn rate to 35 mph for 1 bar vs 2 bar...I am very interested in that cause its a direct comparison to see how your 2,xxxx odo CMax compares to my 18,xxxx odo.

 

:)

[Jus-A-CMax]

...I also started my eco-cruise EV runs today as well. Some mixed results...morning is less mpg, and a flat road drive to the golf course after work was better mpg;  and going home after the golf course was less mpg. Overall for the day, less MPGs by 1 than the manual method but I suspect some of it is due to the better timing of the lights that I got today. I will do the same run tomorrow and the day after with the same eco-cruise mode. 3 days of run should give me some good averages.

 

Either manually or eco-cruise - there is no doubt, both methods are giving me > 62MPG per day for the 44 miles of roads I drive per day. At 62, thats looking at a high 700s or peep over 800  :drool:  a tank there.

 

That folks is testament to the awesomeness of the Ford CMax at 18,000 odo miles.

 

:shift:

[11StiLimited]

Hey Jus,

 

What are your suggestions for "punch" when you have a long uphill.  Most of my ride home has some minor incline grades, but last for .25-.75 miles at a time.

[Jus-A-CMax]

Hey Jus,

 

What are your suggestions for "punch" when you have a long uphill.  Most of my ride home has some minor incline grades, but last for .25-.75 miles at a time.

What are the speeds involved here? Steep or moderate inclines?

[11StiLimited]

1 mile length, elevation change +140' (per Google Earth)

 

25 mph road, fairly consistent rate of incline, only 2-3 "flat tops" in the hill climb.

[Jus-A-CMax]

1 mile is FE fine tuning cause you aren't going to burn a ton of gas at the speed and elevation, nor are you going to gain a bunch of MPGs. If I was driving, I would jus 2 bar it should be able to P&G it no worries. If its rolling, kick in some EV to build momentum for the next roll up.

 

Hey SDM is going to test the 1 bar vs 2 bar burn. Are you willing to try this as well? U know the deal, zero to 35 mph, same stretch and direction of road, no EV start just ice and straight to 1 bar or 2 bar burn at constant rate, cut off at 35 mph, pull over and then camera snap the Trip 1/2 output). Be interesting to see what you get - u would think all our CMax would have the same burn rate.

 

Edit: crap, i forgot your original q, yeah, if you want to 1 sec burst to 3 bars even 3 1/2 bar would give you a TON of torque. LOL, if SDM thought 2 bar was a lot, he ain't see sh*t yet.... :lol2:  PS You guys should try to fang 7.5 seconds from zero to 60 sometime in the life of your CMax, really gives u some idea of the tremendous power this wee hybrid has. And sometimes power is what you need, its not all about slow and pokey... :headspin:

Edited July 31, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[11StiLimited]

1 mile is FE fine tuning cause you aren't going to burn a ton of gas at the speed and elevation, nor are you going to gain a bunch of MPGs. If I was driving, I would jus 2 bar it should be able to P&G it no worries. If its rolling, kick in some EV to build momentum for the next roll up.

 

Hey SDM is going to test the 1 bar vs 2 bar burn. Are you willing to try this as well? U know the deal, zero to 35 mph, same stretch and direction of road, no EV start just ice and straight to 1 bar or 2 bar burn at constant rate, cut off at 35 mph, pull over and then camera snap the Trip 1/2 output). Be interesting to see what you get - u would think all our CMax would have the same burn rate.

 

Edit: crap, i forgot your original q, yeah, if you want to 1 sec burst to 3 bars even 3 1/2 bar would give you a TON of torque. LOL, if SDM thought 2 bar was a lot, he ain't see sh*t yet.... :lol2:  PS You guys should try to fang 7.5 seconds from zero to 60 sometime in the life of your CMax, really gives u some idea of the tremendous power this wee hybrid has. And sometimes power is what you need, its not all about slow and pokey... :headspin:

I 2-bar the hill, usually, but I get a fairly long burn to get to 35, then have little time before I drop to 25 again (short glide phase).  I certainly spend more time pulsing in ICE then I get gliding with EV.

 

I was not aware of the experiment.  I can do the test today, I have a nearly flat area to try it on.  Can post the SBS later tonight.  Can you link me to the thread for the experiment?

 

About the cars power.  First thing I did when I test drove this car, was floor it from 0-70 on the 55mph road in front of the dealer.  I know this car has the power when needed, hehehe.  Since I have owned it, I have done nothing of the sort :thumbsup:

[Jus-A-CMax]

Here ya go: http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/2449-so-you-think-a-slow-burn-is-the-most-fuel-efficient-way-to-drive/

[ScubaDadMiami]

It will be a while before I get around to doing the 1 vs. 2 bar test on a given stretch of road.  My best chance for reporting anything is going to be from when I am running my usual routes.  After all, the longer the test loop, the more it will resemble real world driving.

 

I tried 1 bar for over a month, and I have been going with 2 bars for a couple of weeks.  Today, I tried--if you will pardon the phrase--a hybrid version of techniques.  I did slow charges when it seemed to work best, 1 bar burns, 1.75 bar burns (which seems to be a great balancer), and I made 2 bar acceleration in areas that seemed to work well.

 

On my leg out, I typically average about 51-52 mpg.  Today, I had my best run, 56.7, and that was after having to make a last minute skip around a bridge that was opening, which has a price against FE.  On the way back, I normally get around 48 mpg.  Today, I got around 47.  (I lost it when I tried a 2 bar burn and caught a light).

 

Jus, I am absolutely paying very close attention to traffic.  (I am almost to the point where I am going to hack off someone's tree branch that blocks a traffic light at the bottom of a great glide zone.)  Sometimes, the burns are very brief.  However, if they are 2 bars, I jolt ahead too quickly.  Unless I am where I can keep moving, something will happen:  a car pulls out of nowhere, I don't quite have the timing for the light, I catch up to the car ahead, someone way up ahead stops traffic.  Mostly, it is catching the lights at the wrong time.  (It could potentially be related to the fact that they installed traffic light cameras in this area.  Since then--and this has been confirmed by the media--they adjusted the lights to have shorter yellow times.  This has not only resulted in a ton of tickets bringing in all kinds of revenue, it has also led to a big jump in rear end crashes from drivers slamming on their brakes to avoid getting a ticket--which is what prompted the media to investigate.)

[Jus-A-CMax]

Stay safe SDM.

 

I tried the 2nd eco-cruise run today and it was poor. I finished with 59.5 MPG when I always usually come in >= 62 Avg MPG for the entire day.

 

Jus shows you how fickle the MPGs can get - even whilst using the eco-cruise. Same EXACT route, same temps and time of day. One thing I noticed is that the eco-cruise will drain all the way to the end and then set a 0.4 Bar re-charge beyond the 50% SOC - so this was an extremely slow burn to build the battery but I didn't see the EV kick back in by the eco-cruise because of the traffic light. This could explain why my gas use was higher than the day before, I didn't see this pattern emerging from the eco-cruise.

 

Now I am adament some of you posters swear by this eco-cruise over manual feather - and my question to you: did you notice this 0.4 bar show burn and did it eventually kick back to EV at some point? As I documented for my CMax, the slow burn consumes a lot more gas than the 2 or 1 3/4 bar burns to the same speed limit.

 

Side news: I broke the 700 mile mark- 703.5 miles with 11.31 gallons used. I can hit the 800 but I think the timing is bad as I have to use the car this weekend...but this car is saving me a ton of money for sure :)

Edited August 1, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax