Countdown to cutie75 and salsaguy's Cmax...

[Jus-A-CMax]

Welcome back, and good news indeed :)

 

I heard and seen nothing about a redesign for the 16 model. But the 14s and 13s can be had for a deal.

 

Bumper to bumper, welcome to my world as well. Since gas is so cheap, every tin box with gaf tape holding it all together is OUT on the road, more accidents as well and more crazies. Whilst none of us like high gas taxes, it did make sense to cull the roads of these idiots and the gaf-tape vehicles...sorry, my 2c as I am not enjoying this traffic in the mornings & evening drive home. 

[ptjones]

salsaguy, are you really going to do it this time or you just pulling our leg again. LOL You know more about CMAX's than most of the members on this Forum and have been on here longer than most members, it will be great for you to finally have one. IMHO :)

 

Paul

[C-MaxSea]

Wishing you the best Salsa, however the car buying turns out.  Yes our C-Max hybrid is great for traffic - EVing half the time for great MPGs and tunes.  Be sure to check the back boot of the Toureg if you are seriously considering it, I think it is a fair bit smaller than the C-Max.  Take your wife's favorite CD with when you test drive a C-Max in the future so she can appreciate the NO ICE sound in a C-Max, maybe that will pull her on-board. 

 

Just think how jealous we will all be when you get your 2016 or 2017 !!!

 

Patience is a virtue, so they say :)

 

Nick

 

(Edit:  OOPS, got my T's crossed; was thinking of the Tiguan, not the Toureg - if it matters)

Edited February 26, 2015 by C-MaxSea

[salsaguy]

salsaguy, are you really going to do it this time or you just pulling our leg again. LOL You know more about CMAX's than most of the members on this Forum and have been on here longer than most members, it will be great for you to finally have one. IMHO :)

 

 

 

Paul

No kidding. I always am honest. Trust me I want my wife sms I to join the club officially. I have to be the longest member that DOESNT own a CMax for sure. And it won't even be my car it will be my wife's. Go figure....praying for only good news and luck for us this year to help make it happen Edited February 25, 2015 by salsaguy

[salsaguy]

Hey all. its been FOREVER since Ive been here. Sorry been focused on reading the photography forums lately and looking for work again after leaving my company back in April 2015. Still looking.....

 

So the plan to get my wife's CMAX Hybrd still waits until we are both employed and making money.

Her 1999 Toyota 4Runner is still going but had some issues lately that needed to be fxed

She is still averaging around 16-17 mpg and really needs a hybrid now that she is driving about 25 miles to downtown LA in bad traffic both ways.

 

But, now that the 2016 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid is out, this is something we might have to consider as an alternate option to the CMax

 

As I explained before she really loves Toyota and doesnt think the Ford brands is as good/reliable

 

I checked out the reviews and pix on the RAV4 Hybrid and it does look promising

 

only thing is to match the CMAX SEL in features we'd have to deck it out to the full LIMITED package and that would be much more expensive than the CMAX ($36k vs $32K) and the CMAX of course gets a lot better mpg ratings and can even beat the averages if driven correctly. also the RAV4 Hybrid only has fake leather even at the top best package ! hard to believe

 

but the RAV4 does have a LOT of great safety features that are brand new/high tech that the CMAX does have so....

 

her priority is MPG and reliability of course.

Wish the RAV4 didnt have the roof rails as that cuts down on the MPG and it also has AWD which we dont need here in So. Cal and that adds weight which also kills the MPG numbers

 

We will fo course need to test drive it and see it in person but its a possible choice now that its out

what do you guys think?

 

anyone else here thinking of the RAV4 Hyrbid instead of the CMax to get a little larger CUV and Space and longer Toyota history on Hybrid tech?

[stevedebi]

Hey all. its been FOREVER since Ive been here. Sorry been focused on reading the photography forums lately and looking for work again after leaving my company back in April 2015. Still looking.....

 

So the plan to get my wife's CMAX Hybrd still waits until we are both employed and making money.

Her 1999 Toyota 4Runner is still going but had some issues lately that needed to be fxed

She is still averaging around 16-17 mpg and really needs a hybrid now that she is driving about 25 miles to downtown LA in bad traffic both ways.

 

But, now that the 2016 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid is out, this is something we might have to consider as an alternate option to the CMax

 

As I explained before she really loves Toyota and doesnt think the Ford brands is as good/reliable

 

I checked out the reviews and pix on the RAV4 Hybrid and it does look promising

 

only thing is to match the CMAX SEL in features we'd have to deck it out to the full LIMITED package and that would be much more expensive than the CMAX ($36k vs $32K) and the CMAX of course gets a lot better mpg ratings and can even beat the averages if driven correctly. also the RAV4 Hybrid only has fake leather even at the top best package ! hard to believe

 

but the RAV4 does have a LOT of great safety features that are brand new/high tech that the CMAX does have so....

 

her priority is MPG and reliability of course.

Wish the RAV4 didnt have the roof rails as that cuts down on the MPG and it also has AWD which we dont need here in So. Cal and that adds weight which also kills the MPG numbers

 

We will fo course need to test drive it and see it in person but its a possible choice now that its out

what do you guys think?

 

anyone else here thinking of the RAV4 Hyrbid instead of the CMax to get a little larger CUV and Space and longer Toyota history on Hybrid tech?

I have to say that were I in the market, I would seriously consider the Rav 4. I'm not a Toyota fan, but I like the higher ride. I've never understood why Ford didn't continue the hybrid Escape after 2012.

[Jus-A-CMax]

While I've not driven a RAV4 (only a Prii), driveabiity and vision were the 2 KEY selling points of the CMax. I can't see the RAV4 having the same guts as CMax, or RAV4 having better overall vision of the road (yeah it higher but doesn't translate to more windowspace).

 

Plus the CMax drive fine in the snow (too many years now I've driven in the snow at Mammoth) et all when El Nino dumps 24 inches of powder in LA...well, not the stuff that you can snortel...lol.

 

Keep us posted salgaguy & cutie!

Edited January 25, 2016 by Jus-A-CMax

[salsaguy]

Hello Jus-tin. Great to see you are still here. We dont drive in the snow/dont ski, so we really dont need the AWD on the Rav4. Her current SUV is just for show and not bought for actual truck/towing needs. I agree the CMax has a huge window which is great for visibility. the only drawback to that is that it lets in more heat inside the cabin which means more use of the A/C in the summer to keep it cool leading to lower MPGs. Im going to get all the specs for each and put them side by side on a spread sheet and do the comparisons to see which wins for each category and then rank them for her priority needs/must haves/nice to have features to determine the best "on paper" car for her but the actual test drives will be what seals it for sure.

Hard to believe its been so many years trying to get this darn car for her but with both of us in and out of job in the past 4 years and ne having major health issues, its pushed the plans back each time we thougth we were ready to pull the trigger. I guess we have been lucky to have not bought it at the wrong time as having 2 car payments and a mortgage without dual incomes would be very hard.

Praying for better times in the coming months/years.

Glad her Toyota has still been able to keep going. Its about 165,000 milles now.

Usually 200 - 250k is about what they can last if well maintained Ive heard.

She has always kept hers in great condition,

[stevedebi]

While I've not driven a RAV4 (only a Prii), driveabiity and vision were the 2 KEY selling points of the CMax. I can't see the RAV4 having the same guts as CMax, or RAV4 having better overall vision of the road (yeah it higher but doesn't translate to more windowspace).

 

Plus the CMax drive fine in the snow (too many years now I've driven in the snow at Mammoth) et all when El Nino dumps 24 inches of powder in LA...well, not the stuff that you can snortel...lol.

 

Keep us posted salgaguy & cutie!

It really depends on what you want and need. Toyota engineers for a soft and comfortable ride. Ford lets in more road noise. An SUV is better for me because we have really tall curbs here at my house - I have to pull the C-Max away from the curb in order for the passenger side folks to exit. It is OK, but just an inch taller would fit!

 

The AWD system is not that robust, and does not weigh much. They put electric motors over the rear wheels. Without the mechanical elements back there, they save weight, but it cannot be used in sand or for a long time - the motors overheat and shut down.

 

MPG wise, I suspect I could actually get 35 in town, which is considerably less than the 45-50 I get with my C-Max Energi in Hybrid mode, so no contest there. On the road, I'd expect no more than 29 in most driving, whereas the C-Max gets 36 even at 75 MPH. So, the C-Max is hands-down winner with better MPG.

 

But the Rav4 has a much larger cargo capacity from what I've read.

 

EDIT: Another interesting note: They chose NIMh battery tech rather than LiIon. They have 17 years of experience with NiMh, and I suspect those batteries are going to last a long time, with better longevity than LiIon.

Edited January 26, 2016 by stevedebi

[ptjones]

It really depends on what you want and need. Toyota engineers for a soft and comfortable ride. Ford lets in more road noise. An SUV is better for me because we have really tall curbs here at my house - I have to pull the C-Max away from the curb in order for the passenger side folks to exit. It is OK, but just an inch taller would fit! Raise your tire presser to 50PSI. LOL

 

The AWD system is not that robust, and does not weigh much. They put electric motors over the rear wheels. Without the mechanical elements back there, they save weight, but it cannot be used in sand or for a long time - the motors overheat and shut down.

 

MPG wise, I suspect I could actually get 35 in town, which is considerably less than the 45-50 I get with my C-Max Energi in Hybrid mode, so no contest there. On the road, I'd expect no more than 29 in most driving, whereas the C-Max gets 36 even at 75 MPH. So, the C-Max is hands-down winner with better MPG.

 

But the Rav4 has a much larger cargo capacity from what I've read.

 

EDIT: Another interesting note: They chose NIMh battery tech rather than LiIon. They have 17 years of experience with NiMh, and I suspect those batteries are going to last a long time, with better longevity than LiIon. ​ But there is a pretty good weight penalty for NIMh HVB and it isn't exactly high tech. ;)

 

 

:)

Paul

[ptjones]

I just remembered my Daughter's friend has a 2014 Highlander Hybrid and I think he is getting 28mpg with AWD. :) 

 

Paul 

[stevedebi]

:)

Paul

No,the NiMh is not high tech, and it weighs more, but I would bet that the vehicle will last at least 15 years with one, because I know of Prius that old. It is interesting that they chose to use it. Their higher end Prius use LiIon. I'm not sure about the Camry.

[ptjones]

Well I just got back from driving a RAV4 Hybrid, what a disappointment!  The only thing that is better than CMAX is ground clearance, AWD, wider and maybe reliability.  Visablity wasn't as good, one analog gauge for ICE/Hybrid/Charging functions which is borderline unless, it wouldn't let you figure out how to get better MPG's.  EV is gutless, only used to maintain slow speeds. Total HP is 194 compared to CMAX's lighter 188HP. It is an illusion that it is a bigger vehicle, hit my head getting in the backseat, there seamed to be a little more leg room back there.  Looking from the back there doesn't seam to be anymore space behind the rear seats other than the few inches of with, there was a skinny spare tire under the cover. With the seats down it didn't look like there was anymore lenght just wider. I got a brochure, the XLE didn't have electric seats and I doubt if many CMAX drivers if any would like driving this Mini SUV as opposed to the CMAX.  It's like maybe the first Prius technology or before.  Now that I think about it, it's like driving an ICE SUV rated at 34CTY/31HWY. :drop:  :sad:  I thought TOYOTA would do better than this.

 

Paul 

[stevedebi]

Well I just got back from driving a RAV4 Hybrid, what a disappointment!  The only thing that is better than CMAX is ground clearance, AWD, wider and maybe reliability.  Visablity wasn't as good, one analog gauge for ICE/Hybrid/Charging functions which is borderline unless, it wouldn't let you figure out how to get better MPG's.  EV is gutless, only used to maintain slow speeds. Total HP is 194 compared to CMAX's lighter 188HP. It is an illusion that it is a bigger vehicle, hit my head getting in the backseat, there seamed to be a little more leg room back there.  Looking from the back there doesn't seam to be anymore space behind the rear seats other than the few inches of with, there was a skinny spare tire under the cover. With the seats down it didn't look like there was anymore lenght just wider. I got a brochure, the XLE didn't have electric seats and I doubt if many CMAX drivers if any would like driving this Mini SUV as opposed to the CMAX.  It's like maybe the first Prius technology or before.  Now that I think about it, it's like driving an ICE SUV rated at 34CTY/31HWY. :drop:  :sad:  I thought TOYOTA would do better than this.

 

Paul 

My 2008 Escape Hybrid had only the single gauge that indicated charge / discharge. I ended up getting a ScanGuage II to monitor my driving. They didn't have the MFT with the hybrid functions? That is normally included if the car has nav.

[ptjones]

My 2008 Escape Hybrid had only the single gauge that indicated charge / discharge. I ended up getting a ScanGuage II to monitor my driving. They didn't have the MFT with the hybrid functions? That is normally included if the car has nav.

I had both 2008 and 2010 which had Nav and Braking Coach which I liked alot. I also used a SanGaugeII which I'm also using on the CMAX. FEH has a better Gauge than the RAV4, looking at the brochure the MFT has an HYbrid Energy Monitor which the Salesman and I couldn't find going thru the menus. They don't make it user friendly. ;) I would like the 2010-12 FEH better. IMO 

[salsaguy]

I do wish Ford still made the Escape Hybrid, It would be the perfect size for my wifes SUV/CUV size liking and still get decent mpgs like the CMax

 

PTjones - the Highlander Hybrid is a much larger.heavier vehicle so I can see why it would only get 28 mpg. I was hoping the Rav4 Hybrid would do much better than 33 combines but adding the AWD and the heavier old tech hybrid in there and the spare tire and the higher not as aerodynamic and the air dragging roof rails all dont help you get better MPGs

 

Also any 1st generation/iteration car is to be avoided as all the bugs still need to be worked out so thats another concern on the 2016 Rav4 Hybrid

[stevedebi]

I do wish Ford still made the Escape Hybrid, It would be the perfect size for my wifes SUV/CUV size liking and still get decent mpgs like the CMax

 

PTjones - the Highlander Hybrid is a much larger.heavier vehicle so I can see why it would only get 28 mpg. I was hoping the Rav4 Hybrid would do much better than 33 combines but adding the AWD and the heavier old tech hybrid in there and the spare tire and the higher not as aerodynamic and the air dragging roof rails all dont help you get better MPGs

 

Also any 1st generation/iteration car is to be avoided as all the bugs still need to be worked out so thats another concern on the 2016 Rav4 Hybrid

I think the Escape would be worse than the C-Max by at least 5 MPG city and more highway. It is taller.

 

The Highlander Hybrid had a V6. I never understood that hybrid concept.

 

As I said, the AWD on the Rav4 is not that heavy compared to a mechanical AWD (which the Escape uses).

 

What does the spare donut tire (carried inside the car) have to do with MPG (except the weight)?

[ptjones]

I think the Escape would be worse than the C-Max by at least 5 MPG city and more highway. It is taller.

My 2010 FEH was getting 41 city/ 31-35HWY

The Highlander Hybrid had a V6. I never understood that hybrid concept.

28mpg isn't bad for a bigger SUV Hybrid AWD

As I said, the AWD on the Rav4 is not that heavy compared to a mechanical AWD (which the Escape uses).

They call it AWD-i"Electronic On-Demand All-Wheel Drive with intelligence (AWD-i) is designed to help make any trek a sure -footed experience, with an electric motor that delivers instant torque to the rear wheels when you need more traction" .  If you floor it, it has pretty good acceleration, ICE 176HP, Total 194HP  which implies  RAV4 motors have little power 18HP vs CMAX 47HP 

What does the spare donut tire (carried inside the car) have to do with MPG (except the weight)?

 That had more to do about having a spare tire than extra weight. :)

Paul

[stevedebi]

Paul

My 2008 got 30 lifetime, never over 27 on the highway. The 2008 was a bit less efficient than the 2010, and I had AWD, which carries a weight penalty with the FEH.

[ptjones]

My 2008 got 30 lifetime, never over 27 on the highway. The 2008 was a bit less efficient than the 2010, and I had AWD, which carries a weight penalty with the FEH.

Mine was FWD, have friend that traded in 2009 FEH AWD for 2014 Highlander Hybrid AWD and he was getting 28mpg, pretty big hit, 2010 FEH was much better IMO. :)

 

Paul

[ScubaDadMiami]

If Ford would come out with a Hybrid Explorer that would get a solid, and not below this, 40MPG (and that would include traveling at 70MPH), that would have MFT with all the bells and whistles of the C-MAX, and that would be available with just as nice of an upgraded cabin interior as the C-MAX, but would have bigger capacity for gear and especially so with the rear seats in the upright position, that would be something that I would consider. I'd be willing to basically take a small ding in fuel economy for a bigger version of the C-MAX, especially in the rear compartment when the seats are in the upright position. Other than that one thing about mine, I still love my C-MAX, and it is still the most fun vehicle I have ever had.

 

Maybe I am thinking of something like a Grand C-MAX, like the European size, but with the Hybrid or Energi type of options on it.

[stevedebi]

If Ford would come out with a Hybrid Explorer that would get a solid, and not below this, 40MPG (and that would include traveling at 70MPH), that would have MFT with all the bells and whistles of the C-MAX, and that would be available with just as nice of an upgraded cabin interior as the C-MAX, but would have bigger capacity for gear and especially so with the rear seats in the upright position, that would be something that I would consider. I'd be willing to basically take a small ding in fuel economy for a bigger version of the C-MAX, especially in the rear compartment when the seats are in the upright position. Other than that one thing about mine, I still love my C-MAX, and it is still the most fun vehicle I have ever had.

 

Maybe I am thinking of something like a Grand C-MAX, like the European size, but with the Hybrid or Energi type of options on it.

The Ford Explorer currently weighs in at 4443 in base trim, which is  a full 1000 lbs heavier than the biggest UK C-Max. The hybrid option will add at least 500 lbs, and a large enough battery would add another 300 lbs. So, around 5000+ lbs, for a vehicle that would have a larger cross section and thus more drag. And it would require either a larger base engine, or a modified EcoBoost (which doesn't exist in Atkinson form). Put it all together and it would still get maybe 30 in town, at best, and worse on the highway. Plus it would add thousands of bucks to the price.

 

EDIT: And it would not be able to tow any significant weight.

 

Ford did the math about 10 years ago and decided not to hybridize the larger SUVs.

 

Grand C-Max Hybrid is a possibility, but would you be willing to have a rating of 38/34?

Edited January 28, 2016 by stevedebi

[salsaguy]

Yes I know the higher / taller body would be worse for cg (drag coefficient) and hurt the mpg a bit unless they sculpted it more to be more aerodynamic compared to the full gas version of old.

 

I agree V6 hybrids dont make much sense as its a net sum zero gain with the extra power and weight and gass guzzling V6 being cancelled out by any hybrid advantage

 

as for the spare tire on the Rav4, early on this the discussions here on the forum I read a LOT of folks who said that not having a real spare tire (even if it was a temp low mph tire) was a dealbreaker for them for not buying the CMax.

For most it wont matter till after the warranty is over. Most have AAA membership but may not want to  wait for a tow truck especially in a bad area or out in the boonies when on a long trip.

 

I can understand that but every ounce matters and is key in a hybrid car, just like when designing an airplane.

 

 

 

I think the Escape would be worse than the C-Max by at least 5 MPG city and more highway. It is taller.

 

The Highlander Hybrid had a V6. I never understood that hybrid concept.

 

As I said, the AWD on the Rav4 is not that heavy compared to a mechanical AWD (which the Escape uses).

 

What does the spare donut tire (carried inside the car) have to do with MPG (except the weight)?

[salsaguy]

Another thing on the Rav4 Hybrid that sucks is that the rear cargo bay area doesnt go full flat (its on an incline) when the seats are down, which is just as bad, if not worse as having the HUMP of a CMax Energi

 

the Cmax Hybrid hump isnt that bad and liveable but we could never use the Energi's hump. that just takes up way too much space and which is why we arent considering the Energi even though it gets better mileage. also my wife drives a mix of both streets and hwy, and for that reason the hybrid is a better car instead of an energi which is normally best under just shoter trips / city slower driving

 

you can see in this pix how the cargo area floor of the Rav4 hybrid is angled/ramped up, which would cause any longer pieces of furniture or hauled items to have an issue being fit into the rear cargo area when the back seat is down, or not fit at all

 

http://blogmedia.dealerfire.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/256/2015/11/2015_NYIAS_2016_Toyota_RAV4_Hybrid_030.jpg

Edited January 29, 2016 by salsaguy

[stevedebi]

Another thing on the Rav4 Hybrid that sucks is that the rear cargo bay area doesnt go full flat (its on an incline) when the seats are down, which is just as bad, if not worse as having the HUMP of a CMax Energi

 

the Cmax Hybrid hump isnt that bad and liveable but we could never use the Energi's hump. that just takes up way too much space and which is why we arent considering the Energi even though it gets better mileage. also my wife drives a mix of both streets and hwy, and for that reason the hybrid is a better car instead of an energi which is normally best under just shoter trips / city slower driving

 

you can see in this pix how the cargo area floor of the Rav4 hybrid is angled/ramped up, which would cause any longer pieces of furniture or hauled items to have an issue being fit into the rear cargo area when the back seat is down, or not fit at all

 

http://blogmedia.dealerfire.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/256/2015/11/2015_NYIAS_2016_Toyota_RAV4_Hybrid_030.jpg

Looking around, I think that the ICE and hybrid Rav4 are the same. Pictures of the rear look identical. Plus, all the articles said that they put the HiMh batter under the rear seat, and it does not shrink the interior. I agree, that isn't the best design, but it isn't just the hybrid.