Gas Pods Tank #1 results

[salsaguy]

you could do a gage r&r spreadsheet to do the tests or a Design of Experiments (DOE) with a smaller sample size to determine best / optimal settings (for pod location or with/without pods)

or a simple 1 sample t-test (link here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student%27s_t-test)

 

for those that are into statistics you can look into it

Minitab software has these capabilities, as do many other stats programs

10 samples (runs)

2 or 3 different drivers

with and without pods

you will then run a test to see if the differences are statistically different

 

 

Frank is right.  rigorous testing procedures, controlled environment, baseline data variability, confirmation bias, minimum sample size .................................. it's all real; and it is beyond our resources to measure anything less than say 10,9,8,7,6,5 % differences on our car's performance.

 

Nevertheless, and most importantly, to quote our friend "Have fun" - Go for it, it might be worth a shot!

 

Let's see, where did I leave my dyno/windtunnel, it was here somewhere yesterday, I'd swear?

 

Perhaps someone can hook up with a shop and do some 'blind testing'.  Have the shop install and remove the pods about 20 times, and run your test loops without knowing what is on top.  Or, find a driver without bias, and have them ecocruise ten loops, with & without  ................. we need better baselines, and larger sample sizes at a bare minimum................ Just my wacky thoughts.

 

I think they probably work, but will I ever know for sure? This car, this specific mod, almost certainly not.  So, give me some more of that wacky, best effort, data so I can make my own less wacky guess about pods .  (Wish I lived next to Matt, and could have him make me some Lexan wheel covers too - seriously!)

 

Not even worth two cents,

 

Nick

[salsaguy]

please please and pretty please that would be great

Monthly/weekly youtube classes hosted by Jus-a-CMax

make it so #1

 

I hear your frustration I'm having trouble keeping a 46 on my gauge this week, but I'll take it just the same.  I would like to enroll in the Brother Jus School of CMax driving efficiency :thumbsup: Hey I know, I'll come to SoCal with my video gear and you can do an instructional video :yahoo:

[salsaguy]

Lance

you can review all his FUelly logs here and no he doesnt have a plug in ;)

http://www.fuelly.com/driver/cmxappraiser/cmax

he pays a lot of attention to the roads. so much he knows every bump, creak, pothole, hill, decline etc

his commute just happens to be the OPTIMAL route and speed for this car to maximize the MPG

he gave Ford a BUNCH of his data when Ford had a new owners gathering to get feedback from owners and they were VERY amazed with his data but he presented real facts and hard data to back it up to them,

im sure they used his input to make the 2014 even better

 

also you can see all the folks who were able to get over 600 miles on one tank here so its not just JusACmax who has done it:

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/1025-600mile-cmax-club/

 

also check out all his tricks and tips here:

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/1751-jus-another-cmax-review/

if you learn these techniques and try it on relatively flat roads you can get high mpgs

 

======

Lance said:

So, yes, I love the vehicle.  My skeptics nature just doesn't understand how anyone can routinely double the recommended mpg.  Those stats, by the way, do not seem to exist on Fuelly, where I would expect them to shine out as super outliers on the fuel chart there.  That adds to my skepticism (though I do allow for the possibility Fuelly is not being used - which is a shame since seeing those stats would be a real welcome bit of news to the vast majority of C-max owners stuck in the high 30's and low 40's.

Edited May 24, 2014 by salsaguy

[salsaguy]

Lance

you can see if you can optimize your MPG by doing a test, Put in a location on your GPS that is aproximately 15-20  miles away.

be sure your car is fully warmed up BEFORE doing this test

 

Go there one time using the ECO route from the GPS (you can choose fastest, shortest or eco mode)

see what your MPG is for that run. the eco route will use more streets at 35-45 mph speeds

then go to the same location from the same starting point but use the FASTEST route.

compare mpgs to the eco route

the fastest route will use more highways that travel at 45-65 mph speeds which WIL reduce your mpg #s

 

did you happen to notice on the car sticker  that the EPA rating is BETTER for city versus highway?

hence if you drive a LOT of highway you cant expect to get the highest mpgs

[ptjones]

To get great mileage you need to P&G a lot and be in the 40-60mph range. That's how I got my two 65mpg tanks. It does take some practice, time and patience, but it can be fun. :)

 

Paul

[Lance Merlees Gundersen]

ScubaDadMiami:  Sadly, there will be no dry suit for me in my immediate future.  I only get to dive perhaps 4 to 6 times per year (work, family, work, other hobbies, work, honey-do lists and, if I forgot to mention it, work rather cuts in to my level of fun).  I currently have a 3 year old Tilos 7 mil semi-dry seal suit in perfect operating condition.  I'll end up staying with that until some time in the future when diving can actually become a reasonably common part of my life.  Besides, I'm still rather new to it all and need a lot more skills training.  My dive master, John Ball, is making that happen.  Loved the cave diving clip, by the way.  Cave diving is still a far off dream for me.  I only had my first wreck dive in the St. Lawrence Seaway two years ago, and my first ocean dive in shallow water (40 feet) playing with seals off of Gloucester, MA last year.

 

Regarding the cost for the gas pods, did I see somebody above post a price of over $500.00  :drool: ?  Surely that was a mistake.  Less shipping and handling (tax, tag and title too) they appear to be $54.95 for nine of the little buggers at www.gaspods.com.

 

Salsaguy, I'll eventually get around to the test you suggest, but since I'm already seeing improvements (a couple of individual runs in the 50+ range!  Woo Hoo!) I'm disinclined to use my extremely limited spare time doing research when I instead could be out sailing.

 

Let me tell all of you that as I am becoming more accustomed to the vehicle my mileage is improving.  Naturally, as all of you have indicated, my high proportion of highway miles has a negative effect.  There's not too much I can do about that, unless the gas pods work (which is why I'm following this thread).  My per tank average has moved up from 33 to 36mpg, Individual trips in the local area are now hitting in the 40's with a few into the 50's now.

 

 

 

I will say that I puffed up like a peacock (no, it wasn't the excessive number of hamburgers!) when I managed, even with all my highway miles, to start my journey at 39.1 mpg and finish it 12 hours later on my return from work at 39.2 mpg.  I now know that it is, in fact, possible to maintain decent gas mileage even with the highway component.

 

And for those of you in the 50+ club, please understand my reason for getting the vehicle was that my 2013 2.0 liter Ford Escape, as nice a vehicle as it was, was only averaging 18-21 mpg.  So doubling my gas mileage in the C-Max was my goal - a goal I've met.  Anything else is just icing on the cake.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Lance Merlees Gundersen

[Jus-A-CMax]

@Lance - Welcome to the forum. Thanks for the skepticism, wish you were here in the earlier days when Matt aka Recumpence and I were smashing the records when back then the EPA rated our Lemons @ "47 MPG". Now it seems like Ford lied and we all got our $550 checks in the mail....and dropped the rating to 43MPG overall. Shoot, I swear they didn't send me that memo. I didn't get the 38MPG memo from Consumer Report either.

 

 

I always said you trade Time for MPGs and sometimes, you may not want the MPG and spend less time behind the car but its beyond our control. I run out of fingers when I want to speed to work at 7AM but then get jammed because of an accident on the freeway. You cannot escape the traffic, this is LA.

 

Hybrids were invented because of LA traffic, lol.

 

So my advise, find a route less travelled preferably an MPG friendly one. Like today, I found a route that gave me 104 MPG over 12.5 miles one way from home to the gym. With gas at above $4 here in Los Angeles this weekend, I am guilty as sin to reduce my gas usage and using my EV to the max. And before someone jumps on me saying that "hey you rolled down a 12.1 mile hill with lots of traffic lights, bikes and cars"...I finished the day and pulled into my garage with 64MPGs.

 

Enjoy your CMax, don't fret about the MPGs. It takes time to learn your CMax> We all had to learn our Lemons.

 

ps my fuelly is out of date but I think I dropped like 3 800+ tanks, and some pretty high 600 and 700 tanks. But I also do a lot of trips to Mammoth Mountain and back, that really eats at my MPG total but the CMax is the best car for this long haul, 7000+ ft climb trips. It is what it is and right now, I have no plans to update my fuelly cause I lost some receipts and basically, I lost interest in the MPG game.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Jus-A-CMax

[Jus-A-CMax]

Did the same run from home to the gym and back and got 94.3 MPG there and still finished at 64MPG pulling into the garage. The difference is the timing of the lights were off and a couple of fools on the road that I needed to avoid so I had to add some spurts to keep ahead of 'em.

[salsaguy]

Lance, congrats on the quick improvements you've made.keep it up.keep posting the things that work and don't work for you.

Enjoy your ride and yes getting double the mpg of your last car it's amazing.my wife will be in the same situation once she gets her CMax. I see the difference (deviation) between tank mpg is more consistent as well. Less fluctuations up and down like a whipsaw is great. If you can stay within +/- 5 mpg of your average or best mpg that will be the stupendous and keep increasing your average every month till you break the cmax in around 10,000 to 12,000 miles.

Enjoy the ride.

 

ScubaDadMiami: 

 

Salsaguy, I'll eventually get around to the test you suggest, but since I'm already seeing improvements (a couple of individual runs in the 50+ range!  Woo Hoo!) I'm disinclined to use my extremely limited spare time doing research when I instead could be out sailing.

 

Let me tell all of you that as I am becoming more accustomed to the vehicle my mileage is improving.  Naturally, as all of you have indicated, my high proportion of highway miles has a negative effect.  There's not too much I can do about that, unless the gas pods work (which is why I'm following this thread).  My per tank average has moved up from 33 to 36mpg, Individual trips in the local area are now hitting in the 40's with a few into the 50's

I will say that I puffed up like a peacock (no, it wasn't the excessive number of hamburgers!) when I managed, even with all my highway miles, to start my journey at 39.1 mpg and finish it 12 hours later on my return from work at 39.2 mpg.  I now know that it is, in fact, possible to maintain decent gas mileage even with the highway 

 

And for those of you in the 50+ club, please understand my reason for getting the vehicle was that my 2013 2.0 liter Ford Escape, as nice a vehicle as it was, was only averaging 18-21 mpg.  So doubling my gas mileage in the C-Max was my goal - a goal I've met.  Anything else is just icing on the cake.

[salsaguy]

Jus you know you can open the fuelly on your smart phone and jus enter it when at the pump.

Your missed entries hurt boosting up the score for the 2013 but yeah I can see how you might get burned out of the game after 2 years and jus want to drive it and have fun knowing it's a great car.

So my advise, find a route less travelled preferably an MPG friendly one. Like today,

 

ps my fuelly is out of date but I think I dropped like 3 800+ tanks, and some pretty high 600 and 700 tanks. But I also do a lot of trips to Mammoth Mountain and back, that really eats at my MPG total but the CMax is the best car for this long haul, 7000+ ft climb trips. It is what it is and right now, I have no plans to update my fuelly cause I lost some receipts and basically, I lost interest in the MPG game.

Edited May 27, 2014 by salsaguy

[ptjones]

I just do it automatically on my IPhone.. I take a pic of trip gauge then zero it out and Empower Average then compute actual mileage (GPS) then divide actual gallons used. Then load it up on Fuelly, takes a minute or two. I also post notes, where I filled up and conditions, A/C,heater, weather conditions, Temps,rain, snow or wind. That way I or anyone can go back and see why my gas mileage varied. :) 

 

Paul 

[Jus-A-CMax]

Jus you know you can open the fuelly on your smart phone and jus enter it when at the pump.

Your missed entries hurt boosting up the score for the 2013 but yeah I can see how you might get burned out of the game after 2 years and jus want to drive it and have fun knowing it's a great car.

I got the phone app, but now I still say "wtf"...Its fun for me to rack it up when I feel like it but I don't need to advertise it or prove anything, anymore. Back then it was the wild west frontier - new car, lets see what we can do with it but now 30,000+ miles, I know what it can do and there are too many Doubting Thomas or people who loath their own cars for me to convince otherwise.

 

I jus enjoy the car for what it is....and if I score big like my 104 route, I may drop something. One day I'll take you on this route but knowing that I have passengers, that will drop it by 10 MPGs due to the extra weight... ;)

Edited May 27, 2014 by Jus-A-CMax

[salsaguy]

Yeah I do the same pretty much

I log my odometer total miles, trip miles, dash computer mpg for tank (always overstated/high), station name/city, the avg speed in mph for the tank (so I can enter in the %city/% why splits in fuelly. Yes my car actually shows avg speed for trip/tank),  and other notes as needed so that I can go back as needed if there is something bad trend for some reason. Then I hand calculate the mpg number using trip miles / gallons filled into tank and enter that into fuelly, not what the dash shows for mpgs.

Great site to use.

 

I just do it automatically on my IPhone.. I take a pic of trip gauge then zero it out and Empower Average then compute actual mileage (GPS) then divide actual gallons used. Then load it up on Fuelly, takes a minute or two. I also post notes, where I filled up and conditions, A/C,heater, weather conditions, Temps,rain, snow or wind. That way I or anyone can go back and see why my gas mileage varied. :)

 

Paul 

[salsaguy]

After what happened to me 2 years ago  (You read my PM)  I have lost 25 lbs so you shouldn't have to worry too much about losing mpgs Jus. I'm a feather weight now.;(

I'd love to get a ride with the master one day for sure.

Need to set that up. We still need a mini meet up for so cal cmaxers

 

 

I jus enjoy the car for what it is....and if I score big like my 104 route, I may drop something. One day I'll take you on this route but knowing that I have passengers, that will drop it by 10 MPGs due to the extra weight... ;)

[Recumpence]

I feel the same way. I have 56,000 miles on my car and I have nothing left to prove. I love my car, but the honeymoon is over and I am in it for the long haul now.

 

Matt

I got the phone app, but now I still say "wtf"...Its fun for me to rack it up when I feel like it but I don't need to advertise it or prove anything, anymore. Back then it was the wild west frontier - new car, lets see what we can do with it but now 30,000+ miles, I know what it can do and there are too many Doubting Thomas or people who loath their own cars for me to convince otherwise.

 

I jus enjoy the car for what it is....and if I score big like my 104 route, I may drop something. One day I'll take you on this route but knowing that I have passengers, that will drop it by 10 MPGs due to the extra weight... ;)

[Jus-A-CMax]

I feel the same way. I have 56,000 miles on my car and I have nothing left to prove. I love my car, but the honeymoon is over and I am in it for the long haul now.

 

Matt

 

Hey Matt, long time no post mate. Trust everything is going well for you since your crash (and mine too). Its been insane here lately Matt, the temps are up and just my daily drive to work, golf course and back is back to the ridiculous ole days. For a while I was struggling just to even get to the 60, now its been like 64 since my new tank - go figure. One strategy though, since I live up on the foothill, I now take a more direct route up the hill and versus trying to take a longer way to ramp up the MPG counter. My theory is that, I have to "pay back" for my trips down and along the valley, so I kept it short & sweet on the journey home. As well, by running a longer extended route that, even though it has less slope, it still has more traffic and lights - not condusive to a smooth run. And if I saved anything like going from the 47MPG (say on the up hill) and I may better that with a 55MPG run on the longer route - I still lose because I had burnt more gas to get my 55, when I could easily, easily MAX this gas more for the morning run...

 

Funny enough, I hated this short route cause I thought it burnt too much but in hindsight after exploring the many routes, this one route was :airquote: thoughtfully optimal :airquote:  with ideal traffic conditions (no pressure, can still build EV for my EV+ final run up to my garage)....the kind of stuff that takes us "journeymen" hypermilers time to learn "the trade".

 

Also right now, I am only running the centre grill cover and the gas pods. I think the current configuration with the lower grill that I made, its actually bad aerodynamically since I see it like running with a big open bucket that traps the air and causing more resistence - so I prefer to just let it flow and not have the lower grill cover. I think what you did with your custom configuration is much, much better aerodynamically. Plus my last 2 long hauls with the full grill covers scared me with the engine overheat blipping on (I am sure you read those posts).

 

Anyway, let me know how your car is going. I still enjoy the high MPGs of Maxine though, she's JUS A CHAMP. I am seeing more CMaxs on the road now (as much as the poor sale threads here seems to indicate our cars are going out of fashion), I so much want to wave to these owners and tell them what a great car they drive. Funny, that my Service Associate Frank@Galpin, his wife owns a CMax too and he swears she cannot get more than 36 MPG and here I am rocking up in my 60+ MPG Avg....lol. Hey, at $4.11 a gas at the moment here in Los Angeles (Costco), I am laughing at the huge MPGs I am getting...and Ford, you should be sued for short selling the City MPG ;)

 

I heard you have a AWD Ti Fusion,no?

Edited June 1, 2014 by Jus-A-CMax

[Recumpence]

Since the accident, I have had the nose of the car totally stock. So far, my mpg is pretty much the same. My current talk is at 57.7mpg so far. That is my best tank yet. So I am confused about the aerodynamic mods at this point.

 

I loved my car, though. It is perfect for me.

 

We just bought a Fusion AWD turbo (Titanium edition). Phenominal car.

 

Matt

Edited June 1, 2014 by Recumpence

[Jus-A-CMax]

Matt, sounds like the aero mods don't add that much BUT where it comes in handy is in the cold to reduce the warm up cycle time. Hey did you gas pod yours as well, can't remember - getting old. Still doing all that city and luggin all that gear? I even took my shag bag of golf balls out to get up my MPG. Its hanging around the 62 mark for the present...Im telling you, this is a summer hybrid car. S*cks in the cold and freeways (as compared to what it can do city).

 

Fusion turbo AWD is nice but I thought you might invest in a GTR ;)  (ps go check out the Bar thread for the Gymkana, around mid way of the video, there is a very interesting race of all the top stock super cars...and guess who wins....the CMax :victory: )

[Jus-A-CMax]

I had a freaky day today - got a PB on my drive to work, and then I got a PB for the days total. 76.5 miles of valley city driving. Never seen these numbers till now....did I jus score a hole in one? :love_shower:

[ptjones]

I had a freaky day today - got a PB on my drive to work, and then I got a PB for the days total. 76.5 miles of valley city driving. Never seen these numbers till now....did I jus score a hole in one? :love_shower:

So what is your tank looking like? How many miles so far? :)

 

Paul

[Smiling Jack]

What is the physics of these things?

[fbov]

The idea behind vortex generators (VG) is that a little tab sticking up into an attached (aka "laminar") flow region will cause the flow to twist, forming a downstream vortex. In aircraft, an array of these vortices has a positive effect on the overall airflow, keeping it attached to the wing, and so producing lift, as angle of attack increases.

 

If you fly, you know about stall, a sudden loss of lift as angle of attack increases. The plane falls out of the air. Not good. Adding little VGs along the wing keeps the airflow attached, pushing stall off to even hihger angels of attack.

 

In vehicles, these vortices will bridge a gap, as between the tractor and trailer of an 18-wheeler. This the target application of AirTabs, Their product is based on a NASA design from the 1970s, when Langley did experiments on vehicular drag. I can't find the blurb on their "STI Spinoff" page that describes the history, but the idea is that an array of VGs that help wing lift will also reduce drag.

 

Think of a spiraling line coming off each VG.  An array of them on the flanks of a vehicle separates the laminar flow off the sides from the turbulent flow in the rear, reducing drag on the vehicle. Sorry I haven't found all the pretty pictures, but last Fall, it was all there (NASA links now broken).

 

HAve fun,

Frank

 

PS link to NASA Spinoff report.

Edited June 24, 2014 by fbov

[salsaguy]

The latest article about a Prius using gas pods and getting +11% MPG is located here:

http://www.gaspods.com/toyota_prius_better_fuel_economy/

Edited July 15, 2014 by salsaguy

[Smiling Jack]

The idea behind vortex generators (VG) is that a little tab sticking up into an attached (aka "laminar") flow region will cause the flow to twist, forming a downstream vortex. In aircraft, an array of these vortices has a positive effect on the overall airflow, keeping it attached to the wing, and so producing lift, as angle of attack increases.

 

If you fly, you know about stall, a sudden loss of lift as angle of attack increases. The plane falls out of the air. Not good. Adding little VGs along the wing keeps the airflow attached, pushing stall off to even hihger angels of attack.

 

In vehicles, these vortices will bridge a gap, as between the tractor and trailer of an 18-wheeler. This the target application of AirTabs, Their product is based on a NASA design from the 1970s, when Langley did experiments on vehicular drag. I can't find the blurb on their "STI Spinoff" page that describes the history, but the idea is that an array of VGs that help wing lift will also reduce drag.

 

Think of a spiraling line coming off each VG.  An array of them on the flanks of a vehicle separates the laminar flow off the sides from the turbulent flow in the rear, reducing drag on the vehicle. Sorry I haven't found all the pretty pictures, but last Fall, it was all there (NASA links now broken).

 

HAve fun,

Frank

 

PS link to NASA Spinoff report.

 

Got it, thank you.

 

Now, I'm supposing that this would not do very much good at lower street speeds.  Right?

[fbov]

That depends... our own Jus-A-C-max saw a real difference, statistically speaking, in urban driving.

 

At the same time, the difference observed are consistent with the variation I see in day-to-day commuting. I remain sceptical, even as I leave mine on!

 

Frank