Best tires for the C-Max??

[HannahWCU]

So I replaced my tires at 60,332 Miles.  Still had tread left on them (but I had other reasons for replacing):

 

 

Contrary to my previous post, I went with the Michelin Premier A/S.  My wife drives this car now, and I put a lot of emphasis on hydroplaning resistance and wet weather traction.  This tire is designed to maintain those qualities throughout their life.  After 6 fill-ups, it looks like I did loose a measurable amount of MPG.  The 6 fill-up prior to replacing the tires I averaged 43.9MPG, the 6 fill-up since, only 40.3MPG (~8% less).  I must point out here that the tires were set at the factory recommend 38PSI and I usually ran the OEM's at 45-46PSI.  Also the Premier A/S is rated at a sidewall max of 44PSI vs. the 51PSI for the OEM tires.  I am now running about 41-42PSI in the Premier A/S.

 

NOTE:  The car is currently having the transmission and one half-shaft replaced which could be a source of the reduced MPG. 

Edited September 11, 2015 by HannahWCU

[fbov]

That was probably a smart thing to do. The Tire Rack ratings for the Premier line are excellent, especially the winter performance. One look at the tread pattern confirms that expectation. I hope she's happy with the "upgrade."

Frank

[stevedebi]

So I replaced my tires at 60,332 Miles.  Still had tread left on them (but I had other reasons for replacing):

 

 

Contrary to my previous post, I went with the Michelin Premier A/S.  My wife drives this car now, and I put a lot of emphasis on hydroplaning resistance and wet weather traction.  This tire is designed to maintain those qualities throughout their life.  After 6 fill-ups, it looks like I did loose a measurable amount of MPG.  The 6 fill-up prior to replacing the tires I averaged 43.9MPG, the 6 fill-up since, only 40.3MPG (~8% less).  I must point out here that the tires were set at the factory recommend 38PSI and I usually ran the OEM's at 45-46PSI.  Also the Premier A/S is rated at a sidewall max of 44PSI vs. the 51PSI for the OEM tires.  I am now running about 41-42PSI in the Premier A/S.

 

NOTE:  The car is currently having the transmission and one half-shaft replaced which could be a source of the reduced MPG. 

Part way through the life of my FEH, I had to replace the tires. I chose a Michelin that had great grip (instantly noticeable), but not LRR. I lost about 2 MPG, which is pretty significant when the vehicle only gets 30 in town. When those wore out I went back to a LRR, and the MPG went back up.

[ptjones]

Transmission  problems didn't hurt my MPG's and new Trans didn't help. ;)

 

Paul

[cmax-nynj]

If gas prices remain low as-is I am willing to sacrifice a few MPGs for the added grip. I'd like to gain some braking effectiveness through better tires.

[ptjones]

If gas prices remain low as-is I am willing to sacrifice a few MPGs for the added grip. I'd like to gain some braking effectiveness through better tires.

If you are using ReGen braking you don't need to stop fast, it is a waist of energy(MPG's). If you aren't getting 100% Brake Score every time, you need to change your driving style. LOL :lol2:  I don't need no stinking brakes.  :lol:  MPG's are KING :yahoo:  :shift:  Don't waist Money on Gas. :)

 

Paul

 

Paul

[cmax-nynj]

I do know how to maximize regen braking and I score 100% most of the time.  However, The better tires are for peace of mind and more driving confidence in foul weather. The braking performance sucks on the CMax in emergency situation.  I think a lot of it has to do with the LRR tires.

[pureenergi]

I'm going to do the original Energy Savers with the Costco deal towards the end of the month so I get the maximum out of the ones I have on there now.  They truly do have class-leading LRR characteristics and while they are not the shortest stopping distance in the wet, they aren't awful and I've had no issues.  They still seem to be the best tires for what this car is supposed to be, although I seriously considered the Pirelli P7s and the Michelin Premier A/S.

As for what caused me the faster tire wear, I have to emphasize that I'm a serious E-leadfoot around town, generally using the EV-only acceleration to full advantage to get around city traffic and keeping it in L for relatively fast stops while still maximizing regen.  I'm much more aggressive on the acceleration part of it than the braking - I'm always trying to anticipate and maximize regen.  Once the gas engine kicks in, I'm a hyper miler.  I also run max sidewall pressure (52psi) usually, only going back down to regular PSI after the car gets serviced and the shop sets it to the lower pressure.  I leave it that way to even out tread wear, but I'll try to do it more with this new set of tires - run the lower pressure around town and only run the tire pressure high for long trips.  From what I have read on hypermiling forums, there is still higher tread wear in the center of the tire when you're running max pressure or over inflating, so this might have something to do with my "outlier" treadwear.

So, I'll keep the pressure normal except for long trips, although I'm still going to use the e-acceleration to its fullest, and then inflate to max sidewall psi only for long trips.

[ptjones]

I'm going to do the original Energy Savers with the Costco deal towards the end of the month so I get the maximum out of the ones I have on there now.  They truly do have class-leading LRR characteristics and while they are not the shortest stopping distance in the wet, they aren't awful and I've had no issues.  They still seem to be the best tires for what this car is supposed to be, although I seriously considered the Pirelli P7s and the Michelin Premier A/S.

 

As for what caused me the faster tire wear, I have to emphasize that I'm a serious E-leadfoot around town, generally using the EV-only acceleration to full advantage to get around city traffic and keeping it in L for relatively fast stops while still maximizing regen.  I'm much more aggressive on the acceleration part of it than the braking - I'm always trying to anticipate and maximize regen.  Once the gas engine kicks in, I'm a hyper miler.  I also run max sidewall pressure (52psi) usually, only going back down to regular PSI after the car gets serviced and the shop sets it to the lower pressure.  I leave it that way to even out tread wear, but I'll try to do it more with this new set of tires - run the lower pressure around town and only run the tire pressure high for long trips.  From what I have read on hypermiling forums, there is still higher tread wear in the center of the tire when you're running max pressure or over inflating, so this might have something to do with my "outlier" treadwear.

 

So, I'll keep the pressure normal except for long trips, although I'm still going to use the e-acceleration to its fullest, and then inflate to max sidewall psi only for long trips.

I guess you missed my post about getting even wear at 50psi, 64Kmi. on first set and 42Kmi. so far on second set, think I will make 70K mi. :)

 

I do know how to maximize regen braking and I score 100% most of the time.  However, The better tires are for peace of mind and more driving confidence in foul weather. The braking performance sucks on the CMax in emergency situation.  I think a lot of it has to do with the LRR tires.

I haven't had a braking issue in 106Kmi. I think all around performance is fine. IMO :)

 

Paul

[cmax-nynj]

I drive in NYC and the nearby suburbs.  In the suburbs the drivers are mostly tame and the roads are nice.  Braking performance is never an issue and braking is more predictable.  It's an entirely different story once you are in NYC.  If I drove mostly suburbs I would find the braking performance to be adequate also.

Edited September 17, 2015 by cmax-nynj

[pureenergi]

I guess you missed my post about getting even wear at 50psi, 64Kmi. on first set and 42Kmi. so far on second set, think I will make 70K mi. :)

 

I haven't had a braking issue in 106Kmi. I think all around performance is fine. IMO :)

 

Paul

 

I don't doubt your personal experience, but the general consensus runs toward highly inflated and hyper inflated tires wearing faster at the center.  Now, some tires have a layer under the tread that flattens out the tire even at higher pressure - not sure if ours do or not.  Also, more high speed operation might be causing your tires to be flatter and less "crowned" at speed than mine are around city streets with lots of stop and go.

 

What I know for sure is your trips and driving style must be vastly different than mine.  In 2 years, 3 months I have only put 26k miles on the car, and yours has 106k.  I'm sure you do a lot more freeway driving where the car is neither accelerating or decelerating as often or with as much force as my car.  That alone probably explains the difference in tire wear.

[ptjones]

pureenergi "I don't doubt your personal experience, but the general consensus runs toward highly inflated and hyper inflated tires wearing faster at the center."

 

Personal experience is the main focus of this forum, our CMAX's are quite different than other cars so we have to compare our experiences with other members to come to consciences.  A lot of members are using more than 38psi in their Michelin tires getting good results.  I don't know of anyone complaining about center tire wear from over inflating, above 38psi, on this forum. :) 

 

Paul 

[HannahWCU]

I have to agree with Paul on tire pressure, ran mine at 46 most of their life, Got more than 60K out of the OEM's.  Regular rotation is critical though.

[obob]

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=1

 

It mentions that underinflation could reduce treadwear by 25%

 

No mention of reduced treadwear with overinflation.

[stevedebi]

Back on the topic, after my experience with my Escape hybrid, I will always be using LRR tires on my C-Max. When I switched tires part way through my ownership (severe tire damage to one of the tires), the grip was exceptional, but it lost around 6% of its MPG. When the OEMs on the rear wore out, I simply replaced them all, and immediately noticed a change. The extra performance wasn't worth the MPG hit IMO.

 

Everyone has their own preferrence, of course. This was just my experience.

[fbov]

I don't doubt your personal experience, but the general consensus runs toward highly inflated and hyper inflated tires wearing faster at the center.  Now, some tires have a layer under the tread that flattens out the tire even at higher pressure - not sure if ours do or not....

This is what happens when technology advances... the old rules of thumb become old wives tales, which spoil into snake oil very quickly.

 

ALL our tires have " a layer under the tread that flattens out the tire even at higher pressure." That wasn't always true...

 

Once upon a time, all tires were "bias ply" tires. the tire carcass was constructed around a pair of skewed sheets of rubber bonded to fabric. The sheets were oriented so the fabric weave crossed at a specific angle to give both strength for pressure containment and flexibility. This is still a common method of making heavy-duty tires, such as agriculture and aviation. Major drawbacks are poor cornering traction and poor tread life. These are very sensitive to inflation pressure, since they are just a balloon.

 

In my youth, this began to change. There was an odd French company with a roly-poly mascot named Bibendum that made their tires differently, and always included a circumferential ply or "belt." Other tire makes studied Michelin's approach, shying away from the radical radial construction, but picking up on their tread belts.

 

The result was the bias-belted tire, a bias ply carcass with several steel or fabric belts under the tread area of the tire. These belts stiffened the tread area, making it harder to pull up the edge of the tread, as bias ply did, but this came at a cost. When pushed hard, that entire belted tread area would come up, and traction would disappear. These were hard tires to drive at the limit. At the same time, the belt stabilized the tread when rolling in a straight line, and the tread life improvement resulted in quick adoption of belted tire technology. But belts were not a cure, rather a bandage to stop the bleeding. It took some Arabs shutting off our oil to start the next revolution.

 

You see, Michelin had it right. By orienting the carcass plys in the same direction, not skewed, and perpendicular to the tread, Michelin had developed a radial tire that liked to bend. By stiffening the tread with belts, they created a tread area that was decoupled from the sidewalls, allowing a single tire to be soft in the sidewalls, for smooth ride, but stiff in the tread, for performance. They cost more to make, required different manufacturing equipment, and they were harsh on the road, when installed on cars optimized for bias ply. However, their rolling resistance, and so fuel consumption was much lower than even belted bias ply, and CAFE had just come along...

 

As a result, VERY FEW OF YOU have ever owned a car with bias ply tires. I had them on my first car, a 1970 Maverick, moving up to belted bias ply when the first one dies at 20K miles. My second car, and all since, have radials. In contrast, NASCAR is still transitioning from bias ply to radial tires, for some very good reasons.

 

Anyone remember the Firestone 500 debacle? Per the web site linked above, it was a result of making radials on the cheap, using bias-ply equipment.

 

So, no, inflating a tire above the door placard will not hurt tire life, but it remains foolish to inflate above the sidewall rating for any period of time, regardless.

 

HAve fun,

Frank

[ptjones]

My first car,68 Mustang CS/GT w/390ci V8, 4sp had Biasply tires, they didn't last long,LOL, so I bought I think Firestone Radials and the first time I drove the car on the FWY(SoCal) it scared me to death.  I could hardly keep the car in my lane and took some time to get use to the spongy sidewall. But they did corner good, I could keep up with Corvettes on the Cloverleafs off ramps. What Fun! LOL :yahoo: 

 

Paul 

[raadsel]

This is what happens when technology advances... the old rules of thumb become old wives tales, which spoil into snake oil very quickly.

 

ALL our tires have " a layer under the tread that flattens out the tire even at higher pressure." That wasn't always true...

 

Once upon a time, all tires were "bias ply" tires. the tire carcass was constructed around a pair of skewed sheets of rubber bonded to fabric. The sheets were oriented so the fabric weave crossed at a specific angle to give both strength for pressure containment and flexibility. This is still a common method of making heavy-duty tires, such as agriculture and aviation. Major drawbacks are poor cornering traction and poor tread life. These are very sensitive to inflation pressure, since they are just a balloon.

 

In my youth, this began to change. There was an odd French company with a roly-poly mascot named Bibendum that made their tires differently, and always included a circumferential ply or "belt." Other tire makes studied Michelin's approach, shying away from the radical radial construction, but picking up on their tread belts.

 

The result was the bias-belted tire, a bias ply carcass with several steel or fabric belts under the tread area of the tire. These belts stiffened the tread area, making it harder to pull up the edge of the tread, as bias ply did, but this came at a cost. When pushed hard, that entire belted tread area would come up, and traction would disappear. These were hard tires to drive at the limit. At the same time, the belt stabilized the tread when rolling in a straight line, and the tread life improvement resulted in quick adoption of belted tire technology. But belts were not a cure, rather a bandage to stop the bleeding. It took some Arabs shutting off our oil to start the next revolution.

 

You see, Michelin had it right. By orienting the carcass plys in the same direction, not skewed, and perpendicular to the tread, Michelin had developed a radial tire that liked to bend. By stiffening the tread with belts, they created a tread area that was decoupled from the sidewalls, allowing a single tire to be soft in the sidewalls, for smooth ride, but stiff in the tread, for performance. They cost more to make, required different manufacturing equipment, and they were harsh on the road, when installed on cars optimized for bias ply. However, their rolling resistance, and so fuel consumption was much lower than even belted bias ply, and CAFE had just come along...

 

As a result, VERY FEW OF YOU have ever owned a car with bias ply tires. I had them on my first car, a 1970 Maverick, moving up to belted bias ply when the first one dies at 20K miles. My second car, and all since, have radials. In contrast, NASCAR is still transitioning from bias ply to radial tires, for some very good reasons.

 

Anyone remember the Firestone 500 debacle? Per the web site linked above, it was a result of making radials on the cheap, using bias-ply equipment.

 

So, no, inflating a tire above the door placard will not hurt tire life, but it remains foolish to inflate above the sidewall rating for any period of time, regardless.

 

HAve fun,

Frank

 

I don't think anyone here was recommending pressure above what the sidewall is rated. The tires that seem to come with all of our C-Maxes are rated at 52 psi on the sidewall, and it seems like most here don't recommend about 50 psi. Of course, that is far higher than what Ford recommends on the door panel, which is 38 psi -- likely a primary reason for this is to give the C-Max a softer ride. It could also be for safety reasons, in case they had supply issues, and swapped out with the other Michelin Energy Savers that only recommend 44 (as I recall) on the sidewall.

 

Of course, inflating over the maximum on the sidewall is dangerous, as well as over loading the tire's load rating (which is factored into the car's load capacities). Driving faster than the speed rating of the tire is also bad, but likely isn't an issue with the C-Max).

 

I suspect, with the stock Michelin tire's (ensuring it is rated to 52psi on the sidewall) that we are safe inflating between 38-50 psi -- wherever the ride and mpg is where the owner is happy with it -- and then check the tire pressure frequently.

[pureenergi]

OK, seems like high inflation pressures (at least to the max sidewall) don't have an effect here.  I'm at 48 right now out of respect for the tire plug (looks like they took the tire off the rim so I hope it's a mushroom plug from the inside) and taking a ~500 mile round trip road trip this weekend.

 

I ended up rotating the tires myself in the driveway to put the 4/32s rear tires up front and the 2-3/32nds front tires in back.  This should allow me to get to the next time Costco has the Michelin deal (in 2 months) and when it starts to get rainy here in NorCal and I will really want new tires.  Had a fun time doing it, and made myself a nice wooden jack puck to fit around the pinch weld.  To avoid crossposting here's the link:

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/493-tire-rotation/?p=59891

[MacGyver]

I have 58k on the OEMS and it's time, wear indicators are level with the tread.

 

My 2 cents re the V rating/ie; 100 MPH+; coming back from Vegas I had to get my wife to Firestone to pick up her car before like 4-5 o'clock, and so I probably AVERAGED a hundred miles an hour over the course of 4 to 5 hours, with speeds maxing out at 120-140mph... I have done the math and the extra couple hundred dollars a year I would spend to drive the car in a fun way is worth it to me...

 

It's really funny to me to be able to blow by those "Regulators" who try and force people to go 65mph, you know the type- they'll Cruise along in the fast lane at 65mph right to the left of someone in the right lane and try and prevent you from passing them, so I would slowly creep up until I was within Striking Distance (nothing to worry about here, just a wimpy little HYBRID, <heh> the regulator THINKS; obviously he can block that feeble hybrid if they try and pass, and then, dun dun DUN...) and then floor it and the cmax would just pile up the revs and ZOOM by them, NO possibility of them catching/©blocking you, whether they were a BMW, rice racer, or whatever supposedly "high performance car"...

 

I try and use my powers responsibly and not make people feel bad about their cars, (my wife has a 2016 base model Mustang that I want to race just to find out who's faster, but I don't want to make her feel bad so...) but I have little Mercy for BMW drivers/aholes. They deserve what they get by and large.

 

So for me I definitely need the V rating, as 100mph+ DOES happen occasionally... not often, but I do relish driving at 66-67 miles an hour, just dawdling along like the old man I am until someone's driving is so poor or impolite that I feel they need to be taught a lesson (or if letting them pass me means I will have to wait 20 minutes before I can get past them and go the speed that I want to go again) and then I'll just bust out with it, pass them like they are standing still, and go right back over into the right lane and peg the cruise control at 65.1 miles an hour, then look at them like "you're acting like a dickhead, how about sharing the road so I don't have to spank you again, there's a good lad" as they pass...

Edited November 10, 2016 by MacGyver

[MacGyver]

Oh and for what it's worth on my wife's previous car a 2004 Honda Accord Costco tires absolutely sucked out loud.

 

One time we got a quarter inch thick (shaft) bolt that punctured her Tire, big ole half inch wide hexagon bolt head sticking out of her Tire. That's some pretty weak rubber.

 

Sure, they give you a road warranty and will repair them as you either sit there and wait for 2 to 3 hours or more likely go in and shop and make them more money... we had so many punctures with Costco tires I lost count at least like 5 or 6 it got ridiculous so we swore off of them, Costco batteries are weak too and they won't install them for you so I had to do it myself which on a 2004 Honda is a ridiculous process: you have to remove the left front headlight in order to get the battery in there, takes like at least 30-45 minutes once I got it down but it has taken up to an hour because it's such a stupid jigsaw space saving puzzle.

 

And the quote unquote warranty on the battery was no warranty at all in that when I took it back they have charged me one time because the price on the battery went up.

 

I asked why are you charging me more since I have the warranty? They replied that well the price went up on it so we have to charge you the difference.

 

I replied well then that's not a warranty that's you selling me 5 years of battery use on a subscription if you're charging me every time I have to bring your weak-ass battery back and put it in myself which takes about 45 minutes to an hour.

 

They got me out of there very quickly before anyone else could wander by and hear what the problems were with Costco Tires and Batteries...

Edited November 10, 2016 by MacGyver

[MacGyver]

Oh and I was quite surprised and happy to see that I still got 30 miles per gallon average for that crazy fast return from Vegas trip.

 

So yeah I'm okay with going really fast and still getting "only" 30 miles per gallon

[MacGyver]

haha I just thought of another tip if you get pulled over you might want to reset your average miles per gallon display, mine's about 37 right now despite the fact that if I really put my mind to it I can get 40 to 45 which if you get pulled over a cop might look at that and come to one of two conclusions; either you're really really crappy at driving a hybrid, or that you sometimes drive like a maniac

Edited November 10, 2016 by MacGyver

[fbov]

... mine's about 37 right now ...a cop might look at that and come to one of two conclusions; ...

Only if he owns a hybrid... I think you're safe in Nevada. 

[Chodatus]

Alright it's 2017, still rolling in my 2013 Cmax.

Any new recommendations for tires?

I find the OEM's too loud, especially compared to my x-ice 3's. I think I'd rather a quieter tire, or is it that the OEM's are at the end of its life...