Oil Quality and Change Interval

[fbov]

For the record...

first link: "www.fram.com/oil-filters/fram-ultra-synthetic-oil-filter/" 

second link: "mobiloil.com/en/oil-filters/performance-oil-filters"

 

Marketing pieces and installation instructions are not data. Send me a link to data if you can, back off on your claims if you can't. 

 

Simple. 

 

Frank

Edited April 9, 2017 by fbov

[MaxHeadroom]

For the record...

first link: "www.fram.com/oil-filters/fram-ultra-synthetic-oil-filter/" 

second link: "mobiloil.com/en/oil-filters/performance-oil-filters"

 

Marketing pieces and installation instructions are not data. Send me a link to data if you can, back off on your claims if yo

Simple. ((You keep harping and whining about "installation instructions", very strange behavior.  Who cares.))

The 4548-12 statements are on those web pages.  Sorry if you can't find it.  Try the footnotes maybe.  Heard of that?   Is it that you don't believe multipass performance statements?  Tin-foil hat for you then, since those claims are checked by competitors quite easily and very often, by engineers I've met.

[markd]

Please keep it civil, we lost Dr. Dashboard for agressive posting.

[fbov]

... Tin-foil hat ...

... for the guy who can't post a simple link.

 

This is what a link to data looks like. 

https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/hev/batteryCMax2158.pdf

Select it and you will learn about performance capabilities of your car's HVB.

 

I'd give you a different link if you asked about other data. This is how adults respond to reasonable questions. Proof of claims is always a reasonable question. 

 

If you have nothing of value to post, please abstain. 

 

I'd also be careful; you've riled up the foil hat guys. Time to check the Korbomite shielding in your apartment before the counter-attack. 

 

Have fun,

Frank

[fbov]

Bov Oil data 170627.pdf

 

Latest update. This change is the first requested at 12 months instead of 10K miles, so mileage is 1500 miles low... but ICE miles is within 200 of prior data, so I'm pretty much expecting similar data, with a higher residual level of TBN. And that's what I get, once you account for oil content (Mb and Mg are oil additives).  

 

There's also a mini-experiment going, comparing 5W20 and 0W20 for impact on oil dilution by fuel, and associated reduced flash point. I had seen an average of 0.9% fuel using 5W20 Ford blend, and 2.65% using 0W20 full synth. This change was a repeat of AFE 0W20 oil, but with a difference. My daughter had the car in Vermont, and I drove it home just before the change, including a good 3 hours at ~70 MPH on the last leg. This is exactly what's needed to get oil hot, not just the engine. 

 

This time, with a heating step before the change, there's only trace fuel, and flash-point is back at 400F like it was 30K miles ago. 

 

That leaves run mode as the most likely cause of the fuel contamination. And it's likely a subtle process, as I've included one of Paul's oil analyses, which shows no fuel even with a lot higher ICE miles on the oil. But he's on the highway regularly, with cross-country trips while I was just driving back roads to work...

 

Have fun,

Frank 

[ptjones]

My latest oil change. Everything still looks good at 207k mi. :)

 

81418 oil change.pdf

 

Paul

[fbov]

Looks like you used a different oil last time...

Bov Oil Data 180822.pdf

 

Starting at the top... and noting your car's first sample occurred at 2x my highest mileage. 

- I see 2x the wear products (Al, Fe) in my car's first 50K than you did in your car's 3rd and 4th
(your data runs ~100-200K odo mileage, right?)

- Mb is the first sign of different oil; your latest matches mine with Ford and Generic oil, while it used to match Mobil1. 

- Are you using oil or fuel additives containing Mn? Your oil has 15x my levels!!

- Ca and Mg clearly show a different oil with a different additive package. 

- Odd that Ba popped... up to my early levels. We had both seen 0 several times, even as this level remains low. 

 

And really odd that your oil viscosity is very consistent... at a higher level than my oil. Of course you've put 2.5x more miles on the oil, just comparing ICE mileage.  I again wish you had consistently measure TBN; oil pH matters! Your oil's chemical age is unmeasured. 

 

No engine failure modes evident, but no conclusions can be reached on oil life either.

 

My oil hit 12 months in June, but I'm holding out on a sample until close to 5K miles. I plan to change it at 10K miles, regardless the calendar, unless the 5K report indicates otherwise. This will also fill out the matrix on my flash-point/fuel-in-oil issue. I've got 5W20 in now, and will see if there' less fuel in the oil with a (minutely) heavier base oil than 0W20, when driving short trips. I already showed that extended high-speed runs in Summer will drive out the fuel. Prior data used short trips, so I need a short-trips-with-5W20 data point. 

 

HAve fun,

Frank

[ptjones]

Looks like you used a different oil last time... Yes, 5W-20 Ford semi synthetic 

Bov Oil Data 180822.pdf

 

Starting at the top... and noting your car's first sample occurred at 2x my highest mileage. 

- I see 2x the wear products (Al, Fe) in my car's first 50K than you did in your car's 3rd and 4th

(your data runs ~100-200K odo mileage, right?)Yes

- Mb is the first sign of different oil; your latest matches mine with Ford and Generic oil, while it used to match Mobil1. 

- Are you using oil or fuel additives containing Mn? Your oil has 15x my levels!!  I have used injector cleaner and octane booster

- Ca and Mg clearly show a different oil with a different additive package. 

- Odd that Ba popped... up to my early levels. We had both seen 0 several times, even as this level remains low. 

 

And really odd that your oil viscosity is very consistent... at a higher level than my oil. Of course you've put 2.5x more miles on the oil, just comparing ICE mileage.  I again wish you had consistently measure TBN; oil pH matters! Your oil's chemical age is unmeasured. My WT is probably higher, 190-233*F which might have something to do with it.

 

No engine failure modes evident, but no conclusions can be reached on oil life either.

 

My oil hit 12 months in June, but I'm holding out on a sample until close to 5K miles. I plan to change it at 10K miles, regardless the calendar, unless the 5K report indicates otherwise. This will also fill out the matrix on my flash-point/fuel-in-oil issue. I've got 5W20 in now, and will see if there' less fuel in the oil with a (minutely) heavier base oil than 0W20, when driving short trips. I already showed that extended high-speed runs in Summer will drive out the fuel. Prior data used short trips, so I need a short-trips-with-5W20 data point. 

 

HAve fun,

Frank

At this point it looks like the ICE will last longer than the car. :)

 

Paul

[fbov]

Why, is something else wearing out? I've had Volvos dissolve around a good drive train... but you're not in the rust belt. Sky's the limit, perhaps?

[ptjones]

I think what I'm saying is the ICE isn't wearing out. With 207k mi., I only have 100k mi. on  the ICE so at 500K mi. I will only have 225k miles on the ICE. :)

 

Paul

[fbov]

PORTER-181019.pdf

Latest oil quality report, and a summary of all my data. It's all good. 

Bov Oil Data 181019.pdf

 

Blackstone's comments focus on the flash-point depression due to fuel in the oil. The previous oil change occurred immediately after a 200 mile run on the NYS Thruway. This change occurred after a period of increasingly shorter trips now that I'm retired. I didn't make 5K miles last year, so I'm leaving the oil in (TBN looks good). I'll sent another sample when I get a chance to do a bunch of highway miles, as well as at 10K.

 

This was my last data point in a test of oil weight effects. 0W20 seemed to allow more fuel in the oil than 5W20. There is no effect seen here. The high level here negates the possibility of any difference between 5W20 and 0W20. Next, I'll be testing the hypothesis that a long high-speed drive is the cure for fuel in the oil. 

 

As to wear...

Al, Cr, Iron and Mn are flat (constant wear rate) when miles on the oil are considered.

Cu and K are dropping strongly, as if their supply was running out

Mb and B vary widely, but they are primarily additives, dependent on the brand of oil installed. Same with Ca, Mg, Ph and Zn. 

 

Si is of special interest, as a measure of air filter efficiency. I have not changed the engine air filter, and I don't intend to do so. As the filter clogs, it should become more efficient in filtering particles. This data does nothing to contradict that hypothesis. We'll see what happens to Si level in the next 5K miles. 

 

Have fun,

Frank