Tire Noise

[ptjones]

I think the problem is partly alignment and partly tire. By reversing rotation you take care of tire part of the problem. :)

 

Paul

[obob]

I think the problem is partly alignment and partly tire. By reversing rotation you take care of tire part of the problem. :)

 

Paul

 

I assume that the rear tires can not be re-aligned.  Is that true ?

[ptjones]

I assume that the rear tires can not be re-aligned.  Is that true ?

I was referring to aligning the suspension which can change after awhile, 20-30Kmi.  :)

 

Paul

[ScubaDadMiami]

I only have about 19,000 miles on my C-MAX, and I am having the same noise issue. I tried rotating, and I saw no improvement. I plan to get it looked at when I get the 20,000 mile service, which should be in a few weeks.

 

From what I can see, I have plenty of tread left on my tires, and I don't want to start replacing them so often. Thanks for the great suggestion!

[ptjones]

I only have about 19,000 miles on my C-MAX, and I am having the same noise issue. I tried rotating, and I saw no improvement. I plan to get it looked at when I get the 20,000 mile service, which should be in a few weeks.

 

From what I can see, I have plenty of tread left on my tires, and I don't want to start replacing them so often. Thanks for the great suggestion!

Have them reverse the rotation of tires when you do your service and the noise will gradually get better in my experience. :)

 

Paul

[SnowStorm]

Notes from my experience:

1. Have had the "cupping" problem on both our Honda Fit and now the C-Max (but tires are at 65k+ miles).
2. Normal rotation where backs swap with fronts can help but it takes thousnads of miles after you rotate for significant improvement.
3. May sound worse initially after rotation.
4. My tire dealer says that the undriven tires are subject to cupping and tires should be rotated every 5000 miles to prevent it.  (I seriously doubt there is any "problem" with our tires.)
5. My tires are noisy enough that one passenger asked if I was running snow tires!
6. My tires are also wearing more on the inside edges - and this is where you see the cupping.
7. After my recent alignment I have decided that installing adjustable upper rear control arms are needed to reduce the camber (not adjustable now).  Tires appear to tip in too much at top (although technically within spec) which creates wear on inside edge.  Have read that Focus owners have had a similar problem.  I suspect that this excesive camber (?) is agrevating the cupping issue.
8. I can have them reverse mounted for $60 but would rather not have the problem at all.
9. (I am not a tire expert!)

Has anyone had experience installing any adjustable control arms - C-Max or Focus?  Any suggestions?

[FordService]

I only have about 19,000 miles on my C-MAX, and I am having the same noise issue. I tried rotating, and I saw no improvement. I plan to get it looked at when I get the 20,000 mile service, which should be in a few weeks.

 

From what I can see, I have plenty of tread left on my tires, and I don't want to start replacing them so often. Thanks for the great suggestion!

Let me know how your dealer trip goes, ScubaDadMiami. :)

 

Meagan

[ptjones]

Notes from my experience:

1. Have had the "cupping" problem on both our Honda Fit and now the C-Max (but tires are at 65k+ miles).
2. Normal rotation where backs swap with fronts can help but it takes thousnads of miles after you rotate for significant improvement.
3. May sound worse initially after rotation.
4. My tire dealer says that the undriven tires are subject to cupping and tires should be rotated every 5000 miles to prevent it.  (I seriously doubt there is any "problem" with our tires.)
5. My tires are noisy enough that one passenger asked if I was running snow tires!
6. My tires are also wearing more on the inside edges - and this is where you see the cupping.
7. After my recent alignment I have decided that installing adjustable upper rear control arms are needed to reduce the camber (not adjustable now).  Tires appear to tip in too much at top (although technically within spec) which creates wear on inside edge.  Have read that Focus owners have had a similar problem.  I suspect that this excesive camber (?) is agrevating the cupping issue.
8. I can have them reverse mounted for $60 but would rather not have the problem at all.
9. (I am not a tire expert!)

Has anyone had experience installing any adjustable control arms - C-Max or Focus?  Any suggestions?

65K should be the life of the tire, but if you can keep going put the rights on left side and vs, at least you don't have to remount the tires. At 64Kmi. I only had 1/64" difference from outside to inside. They do make different upper control arms for the rear, I had one changed to get the alignment right.  At this mileage I wouldn't spend the money to reverse mount the tires and instead buy new ones with that money. :)

 

Paul

[obob]

They do make different upper control arms for the rear, I had one changed to get the alignment right.   :)

 

Paul

 

Was that covered under warranty ?

[ptjones]

Was that covered under warranty ?

Yes it was, maybe because it not adjustable. :) 

 

Paul 

[SAMinMaine]

Wow.  I just had new tires put on my '13 cmax to replace what I thought were noisy, badly wearing snow tires. Much to my surprise the noise was as bad while diving away from the tire store, even with a reduced payload of whatever $780 might be.  

Called the dealer the next day, waited  a week for an appointment. the dealer spent 2 days on recall work and informed me I needed a wheel bearing and a front axle bearing at the end of day two.  61,510 miles.  3 days without a car, Ford customer care won't help with repair because it's technically out of warrantee. 

The cmax replaced a Ford freestyle with 208K miles that didn't need bearings. After 25 years of owning Ford vehicles, Ford loyalty, A-plan customer for life, spouse of a Ford Employee, I think I'll get rid of the cmax and '15 explorer and look for a company who'll stand behind their products.

 

The 5 company pickups are next to go.

 

[ptjones]

Wow.  I just had new tires put on my '13 cmax to replace what I thought were noisy, badly wearing snow tires. Much to my surprise the noise was as bad while diving away from the tire store, even with a reduced payload of whatever $780 might be.  

Called the dealer the next day, waited  a week for an appointment. the dealer spent 2 days on recall work and informed me I needed a wheel bearing and a front axle bearing at the end of day two.  61,510 miles.  3 days without a car, Ford customer care won't help with repair because it's technically out of warrantee. 

The cmax replaced a Ford freestyle with 208K miles that didn't need bearings. After 25 years of owning Ford vehicles, Ford loyalty, A-plan customer for life, spouse of a Ford Employee, I think I'll get rid of the cmax and '15 explorer and look for a company who'll stand behind their products.

 

The 5 company pickups are next to go.

Why didn't you have your warranty extended if you were going to keep your CMAX for more than 36K mi.? I don't know why you are getting Mad at FORD when you were 25Kmi past  the standard warranty. I have mentioned in the past several times to get an extended for as long as you have the car.  I also had a rear bearing go bad, but it was covered under the extended warranty.  

 

This is a good lessen to remember always have your CMAX covered under warranty  as long as you have the car.  These are very complicated cars and cost a lot to get things fixed. IMO  :sad:

 

Paul

[scottwood2]

Wow.  I just had new tires put on my '13 cmax to replace what I thought were noisy, badly wearing snow tires. Much to my surprise the noise was as bad while diving away from the tire store, even with a reduced payload of whatever $780 might be.  

Called the dealer the next day, waited  a week for an appointment. the dealer spent 2 days on recall work and informed me I needed a wheel bearing and a front axle bearing at the end of day two.  61,510 miles.  3 days without a car, Ford customer care won't help with repair because it's technically out of warrantee. 

The cmax replaced a Ford freestyle with 208K miles that didn't need bearings. After 25 years of owning Ford vehicles, Ford loyalty, A-plan customer for life, spouse of a Ford Employee, I think I'll get rid of the cmax and '15 explorer and look for a company who'll stand behind their products.

 

The 5 company pickups are next to go.

If you don't mind me asking, what was the cost of the repair? 

 

I had a Scion xB which is a Toyota.   I had 3 wheel bearings go in 135K miles.  It happens.  

[SAMinMaine]

530 was the dealer quote.

[obob]

530 was the dealer quote.

 

Ouch

[scottwood2]

530 was the dealer quote.

That is costly but the rear bearing on the Scion was about $400 at the dealer if I remember correctly.  The part was almost $300.   I think the repair is much easier compared to replacing 2 bearings in this quote. 

 

Bearing costs are much more now and as you said the life can be less than the older type. 

[FordService]

Wow.  I just had new tires put on my '13 cmax to replace what I thought were noisy, badly wearing snow tires. Much to my surprise the noise was as bad while diving away from the tire store, even with a reduced payload of whatever $780 might be.  

Called the dealer the next day, waited  a week for an appointment. the dealer spent 2 days on recall work and informed me I needed a wheel bearing and a front axle bearing at the end of day two.  61,510 miles.  3 days without a car, Ford customer care won't help with repair because it's technically out of warrantee. 

The cmax replaced a Ford freestyle with 208K miles that didn't need bearings. After 25 years of owning Ford vehicles, Ford loyalty, A-plan customer for life, spouse of a Ford Employee, I think I'll get rid of the cmax and '15 explorer and look for a company who'll stand behind their products.

 

The 5 company pickups are next to go.

 

Hi SAMinMaine,

 

Did you already have the repair completed? 

 

Meagan

[ScubaDadMiami]

I have an update on this thread. Originally, I chimed in to report that I was having the same snow tire type of noise as others had reported here. This had been increasing over time, and I had reported it to the dealer on a number of occasions. I had been diligent about rotations and balance, doing so between every 5-6,000 miles, and I am a pretty mellow driver, so I could not understand that this could happen to a new car that had been cared for properly.

 

After my original post, I scheduled my 20,000 mile service and an inspection of everything. At the dealer, I discussed alternatives, including those stated in our forum, with my Service Advisor. After inspection, he informed me that I had two tires that had not worn evenly. I elected to perform a new alignment, dismount and reversal of the tires on their rims, and rotation and balance of the tires. My SA told me that, if this didn't work, he would contact Ford.

 

This definitely improved the situation. I went from always hearing the noise to the problem occurring mostly on the smoothest surfaced roads. However, the problem persisted at highway speeds and on certain surfaces more than others.

 

By this time, Meagan and I connected and discussed things. She had reached the Regional Service Manager for my area, and he now contacted me about the situation. Next, the RSM, after conferring with my SA, confirmed that I have two tires that are out of round due to uneven wear. I was offered, and I accepted, to pay a total of $100 out of pocket for two new tires installed. I feel that this is fair, and I hope that this will bring a final end to this issue. My vehicle now has about 21,000 miles on it, and other than a hiccup every once in a great while, my C-MAX has been a reliable vehicle with a Lifetime of 48+ MPG.

 

One more thing to add: After having the first bit of work done, I drove from Miami to the mountains in the western part of North Carolina and back, about 2,000 miles round trip from Miami Beach. (I did four days of hiking in Pisgah.) As far as the road report goes, we were with A/C set to 74-76F, and we spent a lot of driving right around the 70MPH mark, but never above. As I had just changed from 0W20 oil to the regular Ford semi-synthetic (20,000 mile service) while they did the work on the tire, I think that the regular oil definitely dropped my MPG.  I am way behind on my paperwork still, and I have yet to input into Fuelly the information from the four tanks that the C-MAX consumed on the trip, but I would estimate that I probably only got between 40 and maybe 43 miles per gallon, overall. On previous similar trips, I probably got more like 43 to 45. Could just be anecdotal, but that is my impression.

 

Concerning the tire noise, it was not too bad on the trip, but it was certainly there for all of the 2,000 miles that I drove--although my passenger (who loved my C-MAX) never commented on the issue. I had hoped that the drive would level things back out a bit, reducing the noise even more than all of the previous measures had done, but I don't think that it made a difference at all. I am going to schedule the new tire installation, and I hope not to have another thought about this again during the life of my car. I am going to get an alignment, rotation and balance frequently, even more frequently than I do now.

 

Time to get ready for my next trip! Thanks, Meagan!

Edited July 14, 2015 by ScubaDadMiami

[FordService]

I have an update on this thread. Originally, I chimed in to report that I was having the same snow tire type of noise as others had reported here. This had been increasing over time, and I had reported it to the dealer on a number of occasions. I had been diligent about rotations and balance, doing so between every 5-6,000 miles, and I am a pretty mellow driver, so I could not understand that this could happen to a new car that had been cared for properly.

 

After my original post, I scheduled my 20,000 mile service and an inspection of everything. At the dealer, I discussed alternatives, including those stated in our forum, with my Service Advisor. After inspection, he informed me that I had two tires that had not worn evenly. I elected to perform a new alignment, dismount and reversal of the tires on their rims, and rotation and balance of the tires. My SA told me that, if this didn't work, he would contact Ford.

 

This definitely improved the situation. I went from always hearing the noise to the problem occurring mostly on the smoothest surfaced roads. However, the problem persisted at highway speeds and on certain surfaces more than others.

 

By this time, Meagan and I connected and discussed things. She had reached the Regional Service Manager for my area, and he now contacted me about the situation. Next, the RSM, after conferring with my SA, confirmed that I have two tires that are out of round due to uneven wear. I was offered, and I accepted, to pay a total of $100 out of pocket for two new tires installed. I feel that this is fair, and I hope that this will bring a final end to this issue. My vehicle now has about 21,000 miles on it, and other than a hiccup every once in a great while, my C-MAX has been a reliable vehicle with a Lifetime of 48+ MPG.

 

One more thing to add: After having the first bit of work done, I drove from Miami to the mountains in the western part of North Carolina and back, about 2,000 miles round trip from Miami Beach. (I did four days of hiking in Pisgah.) As far as the road report goes, we were with A/C set to 74-76F, and we spent a lot of driving right around the 70MPH mark, but never above. As I had just changed from 0W20 oil to the regular Ford semi-synthetic (20,000 mile service) while they did the work on the tire, I think that the regular oil definitely dropped my MPG.  I am way behind on my paperwork still, and I have yet to input into Fuelly the information from the four tanks that the C-MAX consumed on the trip, but I would estimate that I probably only got between 40 and maybe 43 miles per gallon, overall. On previous similar trips, I probably got more like 43 to 45. Could just be anecdotal, but that is my impression.

 

Concerning the tire noise, it was not too bad on the trip, but it was certainly there for all of the 2,000 miles that I drove--although my passenger (who loved my C-MAX) never commented on the issue. I had hoped that the drive would level things back out a bit, reducing the noise even more than all of the previous measures had done, but I don't think that it made a difference at all. I am going to schedule the new tire installation, and I hope not to have another thought about this again during the life of my car. I am going to get an alignment, rotation and balance frequently, even more frequently than I do now.

 

Time to get ready for my next trip! Thanks, Meagan!

 

I know the feeling of hearing or seeing something out of place that no one else notices, like your passenger on the trip, and never being able to ignore it's presence. I'm happy to hear that things are going well so far. Please feel free to reach out in the future; I'll be happy to see if there's anything I can do. :)

 

Meagan

[MyMax4242]

Here's the deal. To elimiminate tire/ driveline noise reverse all your tires on the rims. My CMax sounded like it had terrible driveline noise. It was the tires; the inside of the rear tires are prone to cupping. The Michelin Energy Saver A/S tires are NOT directional and can be reversed. It fixed my problem completely.

[ptjones]

Here's the deal. To elimiminate tire/ driveline noise reverse all your tires on the rims. My CMax sounded like it had terrible driveline noise. It was the tires; the inside of the rear tires are prone to cupping. The Michelin Energy Saver A/S tires are NOT directional and can be reversed. It fixed my problem completely.

In my case I just put the tires/wheels on the opposite side of car which reverses the direction of rotation without removing tires off of rims. No expense involved that way. :)

 

Paul

[SnowStorm]

Moving the wheels to the opposite side of the car may help but they will continue to wear on the same edge.  I think the only real solution is to get the rear tires sitting up more nearly straight (less camber) so they stop wearing on the inside.  See this post.  Then keep rotating them - my Michelin dealer says every 5k miles.

[ptjones]

Using my process at 64Kmi. there was only 1/64" difference between the inside and outside of tire and I used 50psi.  That was with using Factory alignment settings, I replaced tires at 64Kmi. :) 

 

Paul 

[RobMax]

To keep this useful thread alive, I just bought my 2013 with 42k miles on it and had severe humming from the right rear, and a bit less so, but still very noticeable, from the left rear. My car tracks straight and rides well, just has a LOT more road noise than my wife's 2014 with 18k on it. She even commented on it, which for a non-car person like her to do highlights just how bad it is.

 

Anyway, increasing G-loads on either side while driving, and spinning each wheel/tire jacked up didn't indicate any odd wheel bearing noises, so I thought it safe to say the tires were the problem. All 4 corners have the same michelin energy saver green a/s tires, all now with 40psi per my personal preference, with relatively the same treadwear remaining in the centers tread blocks, so I'm guessing all 4 are originals that just weren't properly rotated. Both rears are more worn far more on the inside due to the increased rear camber, and both fronts are worn much more even, and of course are much quieter. 

 

Since I just put on 1k miles over the last couple of weeks and it's actually gotten a bit noisier, I figured I'd rotate them criss-crossed (LF to RR, RF to LR) and see if it improves it any. Not exactly what the manual says to do, but figured it can't hurt and would help me localize the noise. Turns out both rears now being on the front has moved all the road noise to the front, so it's definitely the tires. They should quiet down as they wear more even, but I'm sure it'll take awhile. 

 

The manual says we should rotate the tires every 10k miles. No idea when mine were last rotated, but it's definitely something I recommend doing regularly!

Edited March 31, 2016 by RobMax

[Kelleytoons]

Every 10k?  Is this something my dealer would do under routine maintenaince or do I have to request it?

 

I had the 5k thing done and at 13k I haven't done anything else, but I bought the "complete" package of care (so the dealer pays for all stuff for three years) and if this is something I should have done I'll take it to them soonest.