gnc Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 On Mon we'll drive a demo car from 2 dealer consolidation; was told the car was forgotten on the merged lot. VIN shows 2/13 build so 8 months into year 1 :sad: , but only has a few hundred miles of demo driving and never licensed so sold new w/ full warranty :) . It's SE + MFT (no nav). I'd be keeping it for a decade+. If the sale is go I'd request 1) fresh fluids, 2) update MFT firmware, 3) new 12V battery. Anything else I should be concerned about on such an "old" car sitting in sun, so lightly driven? He's asking $18.9K+fees+tax, so high enough to haggle but thousands less than the increasingly rare new 2014 SEs (most w/o MFT) let alone identical 2015. I don't want SEL (unclear if failed battery is more frequent in SE or simply smaller # stats for SEL) heated leather seats or fog-lamps. What do experts here estimate is a fair settling price for this configuration? Kelly seems to indicate $17K, but I might well be mis-interpreting it. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmax-nynj Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) The Hybrid's HV battery requires conditioning (cannot be left low) for long term storage. Even the 12V battery is already 2 yrs old and it didn't get regular charge cycles. For me I wouldn't buy this car if it was forgotten. Tires flat spot and rubber age with time and weather. Fuel also becomes stale on top of other fluids. However, there is 8 yr battery warranty so mention this to the dealer and see what they say. Edited March 22, 2015 by cmax-nynj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelleytoons Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Yeah, the HV battery would be worrisome, although it's true its under warranty for 8 years. However, I'd be worried about actual FE if the battery is "bad" (and how much "proof" you'd have to provide -- let's say you got 10-20% worse gas mileage as a result. How in heck are you ever going to convince the dealership it's the battery and not your own driving?). Having MFT does *seem* to help with the 12V battery issues, so there's that. My gut tells me this is exactly the kind of car you ought to offer many thousands lower than what they are offering and then walk away (and I mean walk away -- I once did this at a dealership and they not only chased me down before I got off the lot, they gave me an even better deal than what *I* offered). So if it were me, I'd say $16K is my bottom line based on the lack of battery maintenance and then turn tail and not worry about it (as long as they have your number and contact info they can always get a hold of you if nothing better comes along -- and they are not likely to find another buyer soon, if ever). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmax-nynj Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I had to throw away several Li-Ion batteries (camera / laptop) since I left them in storage for too long without enough charging. Same should be true for the car's battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 AFAIK, you have no way of knowing the frequency of starting ICE to maintain the HVB charge level at a proper storage level. Mileage is an indication of how much ICE may have run but not the frequency as ICE could have been started every month or so without driving the car (or just driving around the lot) to maintain the SOC of the HVB and the 12 V battery. The HVB will lose storage capacity over time depending on conditions (temperature and level of charge). The best case would be that the HVB SOC during storage was between about 40-50% and ambient temperatures were below about 75 F (batteryuniversity.com). I wouldn't worry about a few % point loss of permanent capacity after a year of so of storage under those conditions.. This should be one of the reasons for the lower asking price. Also, remember that the HVB normally operates between about a 40-55% SOC range with a minimum of around 30% SOC and maximum of about 70% SOC. In my monitoring of SOC I rarely see above 60% SOC and below higher 30% SOC. So, I would think that the hybrid algorithms (and FE) would not be affected until the battery storage capacity fell to the upper limits of operations. Based on Ford's key life tests (see graph below), I doubt you would have any issues with the HVB. The dealer should be able to measure various parameters to estimate any permanent HVB loss as Ford has to be able to determine capacity loss for warranty purposes. I'd require the dealer to provide such data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I do like the 2013, because Smart Gauge has more info than later model years plus the Life Time info too. I'm assuming the battery wasn't dead when they started it for you. That would be a good sign. I personally like the SEL better, but It sounds like you aren't interested in the extra features. :) Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obob Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) you can get a feel for what c-max's are selling for from cars.comThis does not seem like a good price to me. http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/626006802/overview/ ( granted this dealer charges a big service fee but its a 2015 ) If I were to get a 2013, I would get the longest and furthest and lowest deductible service contract included. You might be surprised at the hit in resell value. ( I was with mine.) Edited March 22, 2015 by obob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 If you are going to keep it for 10+ years resale value isn't much of a consideration. I would get the extended Warranty for as many years as possible and mileage too. Have them include the Warranty with the price of the car. I am assuming this is a reputable FORD Dealer. :) Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnc Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Wow, I really appreciate all this good, timely advice! I'll report what I learn tomorrow. I'm quite familiar with battery physics but new to the peculiarities of hybrid cycles. I'm commited to c-max, amazing car, but in no hurry to buy. I'd normally go used to let someone else take the apparently precipitous depreciation because of Ford PR botches. But the worisome (unresolved?) battery draining electrical short makes me wary of 2013 model lemons. So I've decided only 2014 used or perhaps the last one new as dealers get desparate. Shoppers around here seem to be on autopilot especially Prius buyers (especially those who stick Apple logo on bumper). So our local dealers are pretty lazy w/ such sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottwood2 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Having MFT does *seem* to help with the 12V battery issues, so there's that. I did not find this when I researched the issue. I ended up purchasing a 2014 SE with the MFT (202A) partly because of this battery issue. There is not a lot of data on this breakdown of models/year, at least that I found. This poll here states it could make a difference. http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/1294-for-those-who-have-had-12v-battery-problems/?mode=show I kind of decided that the 2014 had more time to work out the bugs so I decided to go with that. It has been great so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottwood2 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 I did not find this when I researched the issue. I ended up purchasing a 2014 SE with the MFT (202A) partly because of this battery issue. There is not a lot of data on this breakdown of models/year, at least that I found. This poll here states it could make a difference. http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/1294-for-those-who-have-had-12v-battery-problems/?mode=show I kind of decided that the 2014 had more time to work out the bugs so I decided to go with that. It has been great so far. Oops, I just noticed that I misread that. I thought you said "doesn't seem to help". Sorry about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedebi Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Wow, I really appreciate all this good, timely advice! I'll report what I learn tomorrow. I'm quite familiar with battery physics but new to the peculiarities of hybrid cycles. I'm commited to c-max, amazing car, but in no hurry to buy. I'd normally go used to let someone else take the apparently precipitous depreciation because of Ford PR botches. But the worisome (unresolved?) battery draining electrical short makes me wary of 2013 model lemons. So I've decided only 2014 used or perhaps the last one new as dealers get desparate. Shoppers around here seem to be on autopilot especially Prius buyers (especially those who stick Apple logo on bumper). So our local dealers are pretty lazy w/ such sheep.With several hundred demo miles on it I should the the main battery is likely OK. I would have them add a zero deductible, 8 year, 125K PremiumCare ESP warranty - from Ford - for 18K, and have them include the first day rental (usually $90 extra). That would cover you for any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.