Brake light bulb type and LED bulb discussion

[notquitesane]

I am really confused as to what type of bulb I need to use in my 2015 C-MAX.  According to the manual, tail/brake is 3157K.  I ordered my LED's before I took delivery of my car so I would have them here when I picked up my car.  Unfortunately, when it came to replacing my tail lights, I found the inner ones were 1157.  I had to reorder those.  I installed the Philips Vision LED 3157 bulbs in the outer brake/tail lamp and they fit.  There is no click when inserting them, and I had to bend some metal bits in the socket so it would grip on the bulb better or it would fall out.  The result was a brake light that matched OEM brightness, but came on instantly.

 

Now here is my confusion.  Online bulb guides say 7443 for the brake light.  The Ford manual says 3157K.  The bulb I pulled out (I only just looked at them now) are W21/5W... which seem to be 7443.

 

So... the big question, is that what I should be using?  A 7443 bulb for the brake light?

 

edit: changed the title.

Edited May 19, 2015 by notquitesane

[From Speed6ing 2 C-Maxing]

I had both brake lights out at the same time on my 2013 C-Max.  Replaced with 7443 bulbs.  Also, the 2013 Manual states W21/5W for the "Tail/Brake lamp in the rear fender"

[notquitesane]

I had both brake lights out at the same time on my 2013 C-Max.  Replaced with 7443 bulbs.  Also, the 2013 Manual states W21/5W for the "Tail/Brake lamp in the rear fender"

 

That is so weird.  I went out to my car and grabbed my manual.  It matches the PDF version I downloaded from the Ford of Canada website.  

 

 

Here is what that page looks like.  It appears that it is incorrect.  I guess I'll just order 7443's as it appears that is what should be there.  Thank you for your help!

[Madmax98]

From 2013 Cmax Energi manual (US)

 

Headlamps high beam H1
Headlamps low beam H11
Park/turn lamp (front) 3457AK
Side marker (front) W5W
Fog lamps (if equipped) H11LL
Tail/brake lamp in the rear fender W21/5W
Turn lamp in the rear fender WY21W
Tail lamp in the liftgate P21/5W
Backup lamp W16W
License plate lamp W5W
Cargo area lamp W6W
High-mount brake lamp W5W
* Interior lamps LED
* To replace these lamps - see your authorized dealer.
To replace all instrument panel lights - see your authorized dealer

 

I replaced License Plate Lamp W5W above with a Sylvania 194LED which also shows part numbers 168 and 2825.

 

It fit and worked.

 

Anybody know where can we find a source for the cross referencing from the Ford Manual bulb numbers to replacement part numbers like this for all of the bulb numbers?

Edited May 11, 2015 by Madmax98

[notquitesane]

It's crazy how different the two lists are for a car that hasn't changed design.  I eventually have to pull out my head light housings to install an amber 194 side marker bulb, and maybe try some old led turn signals.  I'll check to see what high beam bulbs I have.  I think they won't match the list that was in my owners manual.

[notquitesane]

Well I removed my front headlights.  That was a massive pain... At any rate, I verified that I have H1 high beams and 3457 bulbs for the turn signals.  The list in my owners manual is pretty much wrong.  I've tried to contact customer service about it, we will see what happens.

[Madmax98]

Any corrections, additions, caveats from the demo videos these guys at carcarekiosk have?

 

http://www.carcarekiosk.com/video/2013_Ford_C-Max_Hybrid_SEL_2.0L_4_Cyl./lights/daylight_running

[notquitesane]

Any corrections, additions, caveats from the demo videos these guys at carcarekiosk have?

 

http://www.carcarekiosk.com/video/2013_Ford_C-Max_Hybrid_SEL_2.0L_4_Cyl./lights/daylight_running

 

I'll have to use their procedure the next time I remove the lights.  I scratched the paint on the front bumper removing them the first time :cry:

 

I do know, that Canadian C-MAX's use the low beam bulb for the DRL though...

[Madmax98]

In trying to decipher my bulbs as to what I need for LED replacement for  Park/turn lamp front called 3457AK in my manual.

 

My 2013 Energy has 2 bulbs (on same side) that appear to do the same thing - one smaller inside mini flame-shaped bulb and one larger outside bulb.

They are both amber colored glass inside the clear mirrored housing for both.

The both glow a low brightness Yellow when lights are on (2nd and 3rd positions in 4 position light switch),

and then they both glow HIGH brightness Yellow with signal.

 

I found one possible candidate thus far for what I assume is the larger one -the 3457.

I assume I want the same 2 states - Soft Yellow to Bright Yellow.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amber-Yellow-3157-15W-High-Power-LED-Bulb-Turn-Signal-Blinker-Light-3157A-3057-/281646604923?vxp=mtr&hash=item419372227b

 

No idea if this is the brightest, most dependable, or cheapest one, but primarily concerned whether 3157 is OK for what is supposed to be 3457AK per manual.

 

It appears Ford doesn't even list the smaller one, so I may not know what it is unless I take the whole housing off.

 

@notquitesane - do you have both of these bulbs , if so, what was the smaller bulb and what do you think is candidate LED replacement or would you leave incandescent one in there (OK to mix?) ?

[notquitesane]

In trying to decipher my bulbs as to what I need for LED replacement for  Park/turn lamp front called 3457AK in my manual.

 

My 2013 Energy has 2 bulbs (on same side) that appear to do the same thing - one smaller inside mini flame-shaped bulb and one larger outside bulb.

They are both amber colored glass inside the clear mirrored housing for both.

The both glow a low brightness Yellow when lights are on (2nd and 3rd positions in 4 position light switch),

and then they both glow HIGH brightness Yellow with signal.

 

I found one possible candidate thus far for what I assume is the larger one -the 3457.

I assume I want the same 2 states - Soft Yellow to Bright Yellow.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amber-Yellow-3157-15W-High-Power-LED-Bulb-Turn-Signal-Blinker-Light-3157A-3057-/281646604923?vxp=mtr&hash=item419372227b

 

No idea if this is the brightest, most dependable, or cheapest one, but primarily concerned whether 3157 is OK for what is supposed to be 3457AK per manual.

 

It appears Ford doesn't even list the smaller one, so I may not know what it is unless I take the whole housing off.

 

@notquitesane - do you have both of these bulbs , if so, what was the smaller bulb and what do you think is candidate LED replacement or would you leave incandescent one in there (OK to mix?) ?

If you are talking about the little amber bulb that lights up the triangle in the top corner of the headlight, that is your side marker.  It should come on with the rest of the park lights.  It should not blink with the turn signal.  That uses a 194 bulb.  When you remove the headlight and remove the rubber cover for the turn signals, you just pull on a little plastic handle and the bulb comes out.

 

The big amber bulb is the 3457 bulb.  That one you have to twist to remove.  It is ok to use an LED for 3157.  You must get a 3157 as that has the 2 states as you mentioned.  A dim mode for when the park lights are on and a bright mode for when the turn signal is on.  A 3156 will fit but you won't get the dim mode.  It will stay dark when you park lights are on. 

 

I ordered Diode Dynamics XP80 Amber bulbs.  They are expensive, $90 US for a pair, but from a video I saw online, it should be bright.  The ones I currently have in there are very dim.  In direct sun they are almost invisible.  This is why I am willing to spend a bit of extra cash for well designed brighter bulbs.

 

I'm not sure if it's ok to mix and match the two, but I think so.  I replaced them both at the same time so I don't know. 

 

When you install those LED's, remember to test them before you put the headlight back in.  Sometimes you have to flip them 180° if they don't light up.

[Madmax98]

Good call on the test polarity before putting assembly's back in.

When you say 'the ones you currently have in there are very dim' - do you mean a different seller's replacement LED's? or do you mean the current incandescents that came with the car?  If you mean a different seller's LED's can you share any specs - i.e. watts, lumens, or link to help us understand how to better predict brightness based on specs? 

I know the Diode Dynamics guys warn how they measure more accurately somehow, so I'm sure they will be good, but I'm curious how to tell how much worse less expensive options will be and how to find the brightest options....

 

And no, I'm not referring to the side marker bulb in the top corner which will take a 194.

 

I do strangely have a second turn signal bulb which does blink with the turn signal (apparently Ford also forgot it was there ;). 

I assume they don't have it in the 2015 and you have just the one.

 

I guess I'll have to pull it out unless some other lurker out there could help me out ;) = Thanks!!

[notquitesane]

Good call on the test polarity before putting assembly's back in.

When you say 'the ones you currently have in there are very dim' - do you mean a different seller's replacement LED's? or do you mean the current incandescents that came with the car?  If you mean a different seller's LED's can you share any specs - i.e. watts, lumens, or link to help us understand how to better predict brightness based on specs? 

I know the Diode Dynamics guys warn how they measure more accurately somehow, so I'm sure they will be good, but I'm curious how to tell how much worse less expensive options will be and how to find the brightest options....

 

And no, I'm not referring to the side marker bulb in the top corner which will take a 194.

 

I do strangely have a second turn signal bulb which does blink with the turn signal (apparently Ford also forgot it was there ;). 

I assume they don't have it in the 2015 and you have just the one.

 

I guess I'll have to pull it out unless some other lurker out there could help me out ;) = Thanks!!

According to the Philips bulb guide, the outer turn signal light is a 12396NA.  Beats me what that matches up to. lol

Sylvania bulb guide calls it a 2827.  (although that MIGHT refer to the signal in the mirrors... I'm tired... lol)

 

The 2015's don't have that!

 

As for what I currently have installed.  I have no idea.  I bought them for my Ford Fusion 4 years ago off of ebay because my VLEDs switchbacks were too dim.  They are the style that has 4 leds shooting out each side and 1 under a projector lens out the front.  It's OK for most conditions, but in direct sunlight they are pretty hard to see. 

Edited May 14, 2015 by notquitesane

[notquitesane]

According to this

 

https://www.superbrightleds.com/car-bulb-cross-reference/

 

use a 194 bulb.

[notquitesane]

This is what my LED signal light looks llike.

 

 

The light is bright where the LEDs are, but it doesn't fill the reflector at all.  So when you look at it when it's blinking, you see little bright dots.  Of course this is over 4 years old and cost me like $20.

 

After looking at my headlight this morning, are you sure you aren't seeing a reflection of the main signal light? 

[Madmax98]

You're totally right, doh, it was a pure optical illusion of the mirror shape... explains the flame shape and no owner's manual entry, nevermind ;), so sorry.

 

 

btw

local Walmart stocks

 

1156 white and

1156A (A?) Amber

1157,

1157A (Amber)

3157 (A?) Amber

 

but they want $15/pr, and I don't recall wattages, lumen ratings published on packaging.

 

Assume can find cheaper on ebay...quality unknown.

 

2 questions - do you think the 3157 Amber at Walmart is 'dual' brightness, i.e. dim Amber, then bright Amber with turn signal?

 

I will have ask the seller if they know what the two settings - lumens, colors are for the ebay item

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281646604923?item=281646604923&viewitem=&vxp=mtr

Edited May 14, 2015 by Madmax98

[notquitesane]

You're totally right, doh, it was a pure optical illusion of the mirror shape... explains the flame shape and no owner's manual entry, nevermind ;), so sorry.

 

 

btw

local Walmart stocks

 

1156 white and

1156A (A?) Amber

1157,

1157A (Amber)

3157 (A?) Amber

 

but they want $15/pr, and I don't recall wattages, lumen ratings published on packaging.

 

Assume can find cheaper on ebay...quality unknown.

 

2 questions - do you think the 3157 Amber at Walmart is 'dual' brightness, i.e. dim Amber, then bright Amber with turn signal?

 

I will have ask the seller if they know what the two settings - lumens, colors are for the ebay item

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281646604923?item=281646604923&viewitem=&vxp=mtr

 

:) I'm glad we solved that mystery!

 

A 3157 should be dual brightness.  A 3156 is single brightness.  A 3157 is used when the turn signal or brake light bulb is also used a parking lights.  A 3156 is used with the bulb is only used as a turn signal or brake.

 

To be sure, if you can see the base of the bulb, a 3157 will have 4 wires coming out the bottom and will be dual brightness.  A 3156 will only have 2 wires.

 

Edit: Oh, I will have my Diode Dynamics lights by next week.  When I install them, I will do a comparison with the ones I currently have and with the old incandescent bulbs. 

Edited May 14, 2015 by notquitesane

[Madmax98]

yes, thanks for your help!

 

Would love to see if you can take some controlled pictures before and after to see how brightness changes, i.e.

same time at night, same distance from car, same angle, gotta wonder how to get consistent exposure with an iphone camera.....

 

I'm should be getting some stuff trickling in next week too.  Will try to do same.

 

What kind of LED bulbs, color needed for the turn signals in the side view mirrors?  Don't see those listed in manual either.

[notquitesane]

yes, thanks for your help!

 

Would love to see if you can take some controlled pictures before and after to see how brightness changes, i.e.

same time at night, same distance from car, same angle, gotta wonder how to get consistent exposure with an iphone camera.....

 

I'm should be getting some stuff trickling in next week too.  Will try to do same.

 

What kind of LED bulbs, color needed for the turn signals in the side view mirrors?  Don't see those listed in manual either.

 

I will attempt to take pictures with my digital SLR camera. I can set it to manual mode so the aperture and shutter speed don't change.  Should show the difference.

 

The mirrors use 194 bulbs and you need to use amber as the lens in the mirror is clear.  If you have puddle lights in your mirrors, they also use 194 and use white.

[Madmax98]

Are the side marker bulbs also Amber? Ie should be yellow led replacement like in mirror? Same 194's?

[notquitesane]

Are the side marker bulbs also Amber? Ie should be yellow led replacement like in mirror? Same 194's?

Yes, they are amber 194 bulbs, just like the mirror.

[Madmax98]

For Front Amber Park/Turn Bulb

Mentioned above that 3157 is appropriate.

Also that current incandescent 3157 is a screw type bulb, rather than push in.

 

This item on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231547826868?item=231547826868&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:X:RTQ:MOTORS:1123&vxp=mtr

or this one which might not be same brightness,notsure

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281646604923?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

described as 3157, but looks like a push in type.

 

 

Will all these push-in 3157 LED bulbs work in 2013 Cmax Energi for Front Turn/Park dual brightness bulb?

 

Secondly - this bulb

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271819672881?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

describes the need for a 'Standard' socket as opposed to a CK socket.

Picture at bottom of this URL shows Standard as having grounds on opposite sides of wedge, where 'CK' socket has grounds on same side of wedge.

 

How can we tell what the current bulb/ socket type is?  (Voltmeter I presume worst case?)

 

Does Ford Cmax have 'Standard' socket or 'CK'?

 

Thanks

[notquitesane]

The C-MAX uses CK sockets, not the standard type.

 

The 3157 bulb is a wedge bulb (push in type), not a screw type bulb.  The ones you listed above will fit.

Here is a picture of the bulb I pulled out of my front park/turn signal.

 

 

Edited to correct my incorrect information.

Edited June 11, 2015 by notquitesane

[Madmax98]

Ahh, OK, thanks again!

[Madmax98]

What is maximum length of Amber side mirror turn signal replacement bulb?

Likewise for Amber Side Marker bulb?

 

Looks like might be limited to the 1" length of existing incandescents?

 

 

Also, prying the mirror off to change bulbs is high risk of breaking mirror by bending plastic housing for mirror while prying off.

 

Even these pros are filming on a unit that already has broken mirror, looks like you've got to be very careful not to pry/bend too much.

 

http://www.carcarekiosk.com/video/2013_Ford_C-Max_Hybrid_SEL_2.0L_4_Cyl./lights/turn_signal_front

Edited May 19, 2015 by Madmax98

[notquitesane]

I would go for a 194 LED bulb that is about the same length as the stock bulb.  Anything longer might not fit.  I used Diode Dynamics 194 HP5 bulbs here, and they fit.  Doesn't look like too much room was left over.  In the picture below you can see the little bit of yellow from the base of the LED bulb.  The bulb sits at an angle in the mirror.  I was careful and was able to pop the glass off, and with LEDs in there, I shouldn't have to do it again.  I have read you can try to get the bulb out with long needle nose pliers.  Angle the glass so you can go through the top corner of the mirror that is furthest from the car. 

 

I'm not sure about the maximum length of the sidemarker light, but I used the same LED in there with no problems.