Head scratching questions ref C-Max Hybrid

[Roger Eastman]

I have owned (2) C-Max Hybrids, a 2013 SEL and a 2014 SEL , with a combined total of over 50,000 miles between the two. According to technical data found at  www.media.ford.com the engine in the Hybrid is rated as ULEV and the Energi engine is rated as PZEV. I wonder how the Energi engine is rated better than the Hybrid. Furthermore, why does the Hybrid produce so much black deposits on the rear of the car ? I look at the end of the exhaust pipe and even wipe it with a white paper towel, and it is clean, but the rear of the car quickly accumulates all those black particles on it. Do the Energi models do that as well ?

 

Again, according to the technical data, both models have regenerative brakes, but the Energi has bigger brakes. Why ?

Also, the engine in the Energi has a standard exhaust manifold, and the Hybrid has a special exhaust manifold that runs the collant thru it to hasten the warmup of the engine.

There are several other technical differences between the two models that just make me scratch my head and wonder, because I thought that the main difference between the two models was the size of the battery and the the way that the battery was charged.

 

 

[fbov]

I'd say most of the other differences are due to the two big ones you mentioned.

 

As to ratings (PZEV), that's more marketing than engineering. I give it the same weight as the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. It does seem odd that a Honda with fuel cut off gets the same designation as a full hybrid.

 

The back of my car gets dirty, as the tuft test said it should. Can't say it's darker than normal...

The Energi is heavier, due to the bigger battery, thus the larger friction brakes.

 

I didn't know about the exhaust manifold, neat bit of engineering, and the Energi also has an independent transmission pump.

 

Have fun,

Frank

[raadsel]

I'm guessing the main reason for the different exhaust manifold in the Hybrid vs. the Energi has to do with the Climate Control system, in particular the heater. On a cold day, on the Hybrid, you will have no heat until the ICE is warm since it generates heat for the Climate Control system, whereas the Energi has an electric heater, so doesn't need the ICE to be warm (or for the ICE to ever turn on, depending on trip).

 

There is likely also some fuel economy considerations. From what I recall, the C-Max (once it starts the ICE) will keep the ICE on until it reaches normal operating temperatures. Since you may be in stop and go traffic or stopped at traffic lights during this time, they want the engine heated as quickly as possible to reduce fuel consumption. By contrast, the Energi should be in EV mode during this time running off the larger HVB. If the Energi will be taking a longer trip, over 20 miles, where it needs the engine to start then it can likely wait to heat the ICE until the driver is on a highway and out of traffic lights and traffic where there won't be a "fuel economy penalty" while the engine warms.

Edited June 10, 2015 by raadsel

[stevedebi]

I have owned (2) C-Max Hybrids, a 2013 SEL and a 2014 SEL , with a combined total of over 50,000 miles between the two. According to technical data found at  www.media.ford.com the engine in the Hybrid is rated as ULEV and the Energi engine is rated as PZEV. I wonder how the Energi engine is rated better than the Hybrid. Furthermore, why does the Hybrid produce so much black deposits on the rear of the car ? I look at the end of the exhaust pipe and even wipe it with a white paper towel, and it is clean, but the rear of the car quickly accumulates all those black particles on it. Do the Energi models do that as well ?

 

Again, according to the technical data, both models have regenerative brakes, but the Energi has bigger brakes. Why ?

Also, the engine in the Energi has a standard exhaust manifold, and the Hybrid has a special exhaust manifold that runs the collant thru it to hasten the warmup of the engine.

There are several other technical differences between the two models that just make me scratch my head and wonder, because I thought that the main difference between the two models was the size of the battery and the the way that the battery was charged.

The ULEV vs PZEV relates to the way the CARB rules work. The requirement is that the vehicle get better mileage than 90% of the vehicles in that class (or something like that), and the manufacturer also has to warranty the cars for a longer time.

 

The Hybrid and Energi engine will both run for a couple of minutes if it engages at all - this is due to EPA rules about heating up the pollution controls.

 

As for deposits, my Energi isn't showing them, but an Energi will run the engine a lot less, so maybe it takes longer. My oil change interval is 20K.

[HotPotato]

• LEV-Low-Emission VehicleThis standard was the required average for all light vehicles sold nationwide for model years 2004 and beyond.

ULEV-Ultra-Low-Emission VehicleVehicles with this designation are 50 percent cleaner than the average new model-year vehicle.

SULEV-Super Ultra-Low-Emission VehicleVehicles with this designation are 90 percent cleaner than the average new model-year vehicle.

PZEV-Partial Zero-Emission VehicleVehicles that meet SULEV tailpipe emissions standards, have a 15-year/150,000-mile warranty and zero evaporative emissions.

AT PZEV-Advanced Technology PZEVCompressed natural-gas or hybrid vehicles that meet SULEV standards for tailpipe emissions, have a 15-year/150,000-mile warranty, zero evaporative emissions, as well as include advanced technology components.

ZEV-Zero-Emissions VehicleElectric and hydrogen-fuel-cell vehicles that have zero harmful tailpipe emissions and are 98 percent cleaner than the average new model-year vehicle.

[scottwood2]

I did not realize that there were that many differences between the two models.  Good to know.  Thx

[ptjones]

The ICE only needs to get to 128*F to go into EV mode and The ICE will start the first time if you exceed 34mph to lubricate the Trans.  Another thing the ICE will never reach operating temperatures in City driving and maybe if you drive fast enough on FWY driving.  That is why Grill Covers are necessary to get great MPG's.  :)

 

Paul

[SnowStorm]

..... and The ICE will start the first time if you exceed 34mph to lubricate the Trans.

Well, well, learn something new everyday!  There have been times when I started off in EV with high SOC and after a short time the ICE started when I was SURE I hadn't topped out the blue bar.  Considering my route, it is easy to see hitting 34 mph at that point.  Thanks, Paul.