2016 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid

[salsaguy]

How about the new 2016 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid

 

Offers larger CUV style cabin, lots of updated new high tech safety features not offered on the CMAX, AWD, long Toyota history with hybrid technology.

 

Negatives are No real leather seats option even in best LIMITED package, more expensive (about $4k) than the CMAX if equipped equally (XLE and Limited packaged vs SEL CMax), and only in the 30s for MPG (34 city/31 hwy) instead of 40-50 MPG with the CMAX if driven correctly.

 

But for someone who doesnt want the bigger Highlander Hybrid and doesnt like the look of the CMAX this is now a viable option.

Some articles even said the new RAV4 Hybrid would be a Camry Hynrid killer and is going to sell like hotcakes.

 

Here are a few articles:

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-toyota-rav4-hybrid-first-drive-review/

 

http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/rav4-hybrid/2016/suv/review/#leaderboard-reviews-2-anchor

 

Obviouslyt the CMAx would have a nicer european interior and fit/finish a little better.

 

 

Anyone test drive one of these yet?

 

My wife and I will have to check it out and see if its a viable alternative for our CMAX as 1st choice for her next car, a hyrbid

Edited January 24, 2016 by salsaguy

[ptjones]

Well I just got back from driving a RAV4 Hybrid, what a disappointment!  The only thing that is better than CMAX is ground clearance, AWD, wider and maybe reliability.  Visablity wasn't as good, one analog gauge for ICE/Hybrid/Charging functions which is borderline unless, it wouldn't let you figure out how to get better MPG's.  EV is gutless, only used to maintain slow speeds. Total HP is 194 compared to CMAX's lighter 188HP. It is an illusion that it is a bigger vehicle, hit my head getting in the backseat, there seamed to be a little more leg room back there.  Looking from the back there doesn't seam to be anymore space behind the rear seats other than the few inches of with, there was a skinny spare tire under the cover. With the seats down it didn't look like there was anymore lenght just wider. I got a brochure, the XLE didn't have electric seats and I doubt if many CMAX drivers if any would like driving this Mini SUV as opposed to the CMAX.  It's like maybe the first Prius technology or before.  Now that I think about it, it's like driving an ICE SUV rated at 34CTY/31HWY.  :drop:   :sad:  I thought TOYOTA would do better than this.

 

Paul 

[C-MaxSea]

........................, more expensive (about $4k) than the CMAX if equipped equally (XLE and Limited packaged vs SEL CMax), and only in the 30s for MPG (34 city/31 hwy) instead of 40-50 MPG with the CMAX if driven correctly.  .............Obviouslyt the CMAx would have a nicer european interior and fit/finish a little better.

 

 

You said it right there Salsa; not to mention ride, handling ..............................

 

What, 'not like the look of the C-Max', c'mon now, it's beautiful !   :wub2:

 

Nick

Edited January 27, 2016 by C-MaxSea

[salsaguy]

thanks for checking out the Rav4 Hybrid ptjones. I cant go to a dealer anytime soon due to a medical issue Im dealing with now. Glad to hear you were able to find out the scoop on it. I was worried about that. Actually not really since I know nothing can compare to the CMax but in my wifes eyes nothing beats a Toyota. Im not the one who thinks the CMax doesnt look cool.

 

Also can we verify the new Rav4 Hybrid is using the OLD technology Hybrid battery design and not the new LiOn tech in the new Prius desins. Toyota was using the old batteries forever and just recently updated their techg where as Ford was using the new tech for many years now,

 

If that is the case no use paying for outdated tech in a brand new car.

 

Yeah its amazing they rip you off with no real leather not even in the top of the line trim level and force you to get the Limited to get power seats. Come on. everyone has power seats these days even in cars that only cost $20-25k. never mind a $30-35k CUV

 

I do like all the advance safety features that are in the Rav4 Hybrid that the CMax doesnt, but should have, like:

Lane Departure Warning,

Street Pedestrian radar detection and brake stopping

Forward Collision brake assist

360 panoramic camera view to help with parking

 

Rav4 also offers a real moonroof you can open / tile up. the cmax only has a closed system or a $3k expensice pano roof option you cant crack open to let the hot air out or keep the car cooler on hot days

 

of course the CMax has many things the Rav4 doesnt have like

- Kick to open liftgate (rav4 only has button push to open/close)

- Self parking feature in the 303a SEL package (which is what we would get when the time comes to get the CMax)

- real leather seats

 

But from the early Fuelly reports the Rav4 seems to be struggling just to meet the MPG ratings whereas many here can meet and easily beat the MPG ratings, esp if the gages help you have fun while  playing the MPG wars game :)

 

we shall see

 

[ptjones]

Here's a TOYOTA News Link: http://toyotanews.pressroom.toyota.com/releases/toyota+2016+rav4+hybrid+debut.htm  that talks about the battery. ;)  This News Release doesn't correspond to reality IMO, I tried to get the RAV4 Hybrid to accelerate in EV, but it would jump to ICE Mode with any presser on the accelerator.  Unfortunately I wasn't able to figure out how well the HVB was charged. ;)  

 

Paul

[stevedebi]

Just a note here, the newest Prius still uses NiMh batteries on the base model. The higher trim models have gone to LiIon.

 

I took a look at several reviews, and I don't think I would want this.

 

1. They have a "Sway" warning. Toyota vehicles have a soft ride, at the expense of feeling "tippy". I love the way the C-Max holds in a turn.

2. I just don't think I can live with that mileage. It is at least 10 MPG less than the C-Max.

3. Max 25 MPH for EV mode? Basically good for a half mile or so. I'd rather let the car go into EV at higher speeds when it can.

4. It is as expensive as the C-Max Energi, but has no rebates.

5. Really, no real leather on a 36K car? Not even as an option?

[cmax-nynj]

All of you forgot to mention resale value of a RAV4 vs. a CMax.  Having AWD with the designation of "SUV" will attract buyers without any effort.  Toyota buyers typically do not care about the performance of their vehicles.  I wish Ford had named the USDM C-Max Hybrid as Escape or Focus Hybrid back in 2013 so that at least people would take a look at it.

Edited January 27, 2016 by cmax-nynj

[stevedebi]

All of you forgot to mention resale value of a RAV4 vs. a CMax.  Having AWD with the designation of "SUV" will attract buyers without any effort.  Toyota buyers typically do not care about the performance of their vehicles.  I wish Ford had named the USDM C-Max Hybrid as Escape or Focus Hybrid back in 2013 so that at least people would take a look at it.

The hybrid option adds less than 800 bucks to the car, so I think resale will probably follow the ICE models.

[cmax-nynj]

$800 premium is good if you factored in reduced brake wear; lack of engine drive belts on top of higher MPG%.  Best of all it is AWD and comes with a spare tire

Edited January 28, 2016 by cmax-nynj

[stevedebi]

$800 premium is good if you factored in reduced brake wear; lack of engine drive belts on top of higher MPG%.  Best of all it is AWD and comes with a spare tire

The articles I read indicate that Chrysler expects the hybrid to be a big seller. They don't offer it below XLE trim. So if you are wanting XLE or higher, the small difference is going to be worth the better MPG. I think they are right, it will sell well.

[scottwood2]

The hybrid option adds less than 800 bucks to the car, so I think resale will probably follow the ICE models.

Just curious where that number comes from?  I would have guessed that the cost would be way higher. 

[BIG ROCCO]

 

Well I just got back from driving a RAV4 Hybrid, what a disappointment!  The only thing that is better than CMAX is ground clearance, AWD, wider and maybe reliability.  Visablity wasn't as good, one analog gauge for ICE/Hybrid/Charging functions which is borderline unless, it wouldn't let you figure out how to get better MPG's.  EV is gutless, only used to maintain slow speeds. Total HP is 194 compared to CMAX's lighter 188HP. It is an illusion that it is a bigger vehicle, hit my head getting in the backseat, there seamed to be a little more leg room back there.  Looking from the back there doesn't seam to be anymore space behind the rear seats other than the few inches of with, there was a skinny spare tire under the cover. With the seats down it didn't look like there was anymore lenght just wider. I got a brochure, the XLE didn't have electric seats and I doubt if many CMAX drivers if any would like driving this Mini SUV as opposed to the CMAX.  It's like maybe the first Prius technology or before.  Now that I think about it, it's like driving an ICE SUV rated at 34CTY/31HWY.  :drop:   :sad:  I thought TOYOTA would do better than this.

 

Paul 

 

 

Nice review - thanks Paul!  When I read about the RAV4 Hybrid, it really sounded better than the CM in a lot of ways...now it doesn't sound so hot.

Edited January 28, 2016 by BIG ROCCO

[BIG ROCCO]

Hey Paul - I know the CM is available in "real" leather, but it is not very luxurious, in my opinion; real or not, does the leather in the CM seem any better than the SofTex seat material in the RAV4?

[stevedebi]

Just curious where that number comes from?  I would have guessed that the cost would be way higher. 

It was in several articles. It is less than 800, but I don't remember the exact amount. The same engine, battery, and drivetrain are used on the Camry hybrid, so they were able to maximize production.

 

Found it, they are claiming $700

 

http://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/2016-toyota-rav4-hybrid-first-drive

[ptjones]

Hey Paul - I know the CM is available in "real" leather, but it is not very luxurious, in my opinion; real or not, does the leather in the CM seem any better than the SofTex seat material in the RAV4?

I don't know, the I drove was a XLE with cloth seats. I didn't look at non Hybrid Limited or SE ones with SofTex. If I'm in the area I will check again. :)  The XLE is a cheaper interior than the CMAX SEL. ;)

 

It was in several articles. It is less than 800, but I don't remember the exact amount. The same engine, battery, and drivetrain are used on the Camry hybrid, so they were able to maximize production.

 

Found it, they are claiming $700

 

http://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/2016-toyota-rav4-hybrid-first-drive

Having the Camry Hybrid drive train explains alot on EV performance. :)

 

Paul

[salsaguy]

Yeah Steve

I agree on all points

really surprising

Sure they made this car to beat the Honda CRV and similar competitors and it probably will, but compared to a CMax which is a different kind of car/clas but still some of us out there are on the fence of an "inbetween" car and a mix between a car and a SUV/CUV and like the benefits of both and need to merge the best of both worlds of high mileage and some extra space and higher up sitting cabin

not an easy task but Im glad they have this option for some.

Really hope they can improve it even more in a few years and get better mpg to make it an easier sell and add real leather as that is just a sin.

 

Just a note here, the newest Prius still uses NiMh batteries on the base model. The higher trim models have gone to LiIon.

 

I took a look at several reviews, and I don't think I would want this.

 

1. They have a "Sway" warning. Toyota vehicles have a soft ride, at the expense of feeling "tippy". I love the way the C-Max holds in a turn.

2. I just don't think I can live with that mileage. It is at least 10 MPG less than the C-Max.

3. Max 25 MPH for EV mode? Basically good for a half mile or so. I'd rather let the car go into EV at higher speeds when it can.

4. It is as expensive as the C-Max Energi, but has no rebates.

5. Really, no real leather on a 36K car? Not even as an option?

[salsaguy]

This is the article that says it will be a Toyota Camry killer:

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-toyota-rav4-hybrid-first-drive-review/?sm_id=social_aumomotortrendhub_MotorTrend_20151208_56105536&adbid=674260173037309952&adbpl=tw&adbpr=25383000

 

 

The articles I read indicate that Chrysler expects the hybrid to be a big seller. They don't offer it below XLE trim. So if you are wanting XLE or higher, the small difference is going to be worth the better MPG. I think they are right, it will sell well.

[salsaguy]

I read the Rav4 Hybrid was based off the Lesus 300 NX Hybrid platform

 

 

 

Having the Camry Hybrid drive train explains alot on EV performance. :)

 

Paul

[stevedebi]

I read the Rav4 Hybrid was based off the Lesus 300 NX Hybrid platform

Yes, but all three share the same basic system, Camry, Rav4, and NX. They took the exact engineering from the NX, but the system is the same. It is different from the Prius.

 

FWIW, they took the AWD from the Highlander Hybrid...

[Louder North]

Another review of the RAV4 hybrid (from the Canadian viewpoint).

[ptjones]

They agreed with me that the Hybrid has very little EV power which is similar to Prius which has a little more EV power.  Last weekend I drove up and back in my Daughter's 2011 Prius, it has been three years since last time I have driven it. WOW I didn't remember how big of a difference there is, the ICE runs almost all the time. It is very hard to run in EV Mode on the HWY and it is a little annoying the high RPMs ICE noise anytime you needed to speed up.  I was getting leg/foot cramps from not being able to move the seat up for my long legs.  I would think Prius drivers would be amazed by the difference compared to CMAX.  She made the mistake of putting some cheap Cooper LRR tires on her Prius and lost about 3mpg, OUCH! I did put a bottle of NOS Octane Booster in and seemed to help about a mpg. ;) 

 

Paul