2017 Kia Niro

[raadsel]

I hate when that happens.LOL

 

I'm afraid this is old news dated August 2016 and building Model E in Mexico, I'm wondering if there is going to be a 2018 CMAX, their running out of time. :headscratch:

 

Paul

 

While it is several months old, I think it is still correct. I suspect that "Ford" thinks the Model E, despite likely being more like a Focus, will be a suitable C-Max replacement. Then they can bring back the Escape Hybrid as a true crossover hybrid.

 

In terms of timing, since the 2017 C-Max is just hitting dealers, I think the C-Max will continue to be a "current" model for another year, with Ford planning for the remaining C-Max stock to last until the 2019 Escape and Model E's are released. Perhaps they'll even make the last of the C-Max cars produced 2018 models, even though they'll be identical (just produced a few months later) to the 2017 model.

[ptjones]

Sure has been quite on the news front for a while. :headscratch: Like I said I will be going to Car Show at the Atlanta Convention Center this Saturday and see if I can find someone at the FORD display that knows anything. :) These Post should be in the Model E thread.

 

Paul

Edited March 20, 2017 by ptjones

[plus 3 golfer]

I hate when that happens.LOL

 

I'm afraid this is old news dated August 2016 and building Model E in Mexico, I'm wondering if there is going to be a 2018 CMAX, their running out of time. :headscratch:

 

Paul

Yes, the old news is BT. :)  I can't find anything on when C-Max production will end.  Ford's proposed "Model E" will be available in 2020 as a full electric SUV.  Given the poor sales of the C-Max, I doubt Ford will continue its production too much longer.

 

I will seriously consider buying a used, low mileage C-Max (maybe even an Energi).  IMO, they will be "dirt cheap" when the Model E arrives. 

 

"Automotive News Europe

January 3, 2017 17:17 CET

DETROIT -- Ford Motor will cancel its $1.6 billion assembly plant in Mexico, instead investing $700 million in the U.S. to bring to market 13 electrified vehicles.

The plans include an F-150 hybrid pickup, a Mustang hybrid and a full electric SUV with a 300-mile (480 km) range. The SUV will launch in 2020 and will be sold in North America, Europe and Asia. It will be built south of Detroit in Flat Rock, Michigan.

 

Ford is expected to call the SUV the Model E. Tesla CEO Elon Musk wanted to use the Model E name for the Model 3, but he was unable to secure the naming rights from Ford, which has owned the patent for some time."

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/03/news/economy/ford-700-jobs-trump/index.html?iid=EL

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20170103/COPY/301069999/ford-will-build-electrified-vehicles-in-u.s.-after-canceling-mexico

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/17/ford-goes-forward-with-plans-to-build-plants-in-mexico-after-all/

http://www.mexico-now.com/index.php/article/1678-ford-plant-in-irapuato-construction-90-complete

[ptjones]

Yes, the old news is BT. :)  I can't find anything on when C-Max production will end.  Ford's proposed "Model E" will be available in 2020 as a full electric SUV.  Given the poor sales of the C-Max, I doubt Ford will continue its production too much longer.

 

I will seriously consider buying a used, low mileage C-Max (maybe even an Energi).  IMO, they will be "dirt cheap" when the Model E arrives. 

 

"Automotive News Europe

January 3, 2017 17:17 CET

DETROIT -- Ford Motor will cancel its $1.6 billion assembly plant in Mexico, instead investing $700 million in the U.S. to bring to market 13 electrified vehicles.

The plans include an F-150 hybrid pickup, a Mustang hybrid and a full electric SUV with a 300-mile (480 km) range. The SUV will launch in 2020 and will be sold in North America, Europe and Asia. It will be built south of Detroit in Flat Rock, Michigan.

 

Ford is expected to call the SUV the Model E. Tesla CEO Elon Musk wanted to use the Model E name for the Model 3, but he was unable to secure the naming rights from Ford, which has owned the patent for some time."

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/03/news/economy/ford-700-jobs-trump/index.html?iid=EL

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20170103/COPY/301069999/ford-will-build-electrified-vehicles-in-u.s.-after-canceling-mexico

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/17/ford-goes-forward-with-plans-to-build-plants-in-mexico-after-all/

http://www.mexico-now.com/index.php/article/1678-ford-plant-in-irapuato-construction-90-complete

There is getting to be a lot of low mileage CMAX's becoming available at very reasonable prices. :) An Energi would come in handy these days. At this time I don't know where I would put an extra car. :shrug:

 

 

Paul

[SnowStorm]

 

.... and a full electric SUV with a 300-mile (480 km) range.

Now that's a car Snowstorm could get excited about.  :) Just keep it all sensible - not over-the-top like the Tesla Model X.  By 2020 The Enterprise should be near the 250k mile goal I have for it.  Of course charging had better be reasonably priced or it won't beat the near 4 cents/mile it costs now to run a C-Max!  Gas at about $2/gal and 50 MPG will be hard for an EV to beat.  But I really do want all electric - enough oil changes for one lifetime!  Which reminds me, another one is due! :gaah:

[MaxHeadroom]

Now that's a car Snowstorm could get excited about.  :) Just keep it all sensible - not over-the-top like the Tesla Model X.  By 2020 The Enterprise should be near the 250k mile goal I have for it.  Of course charging had better be reasonably priced or it won't beat the near 4 cents/mile it costs now to run a C-Max!  Gas at about $2/gal and 50 MPG will be hard for an EV to beat.  But I really do want all electric - enough oil changes for one lifetime!  Which reminds me, another one is due! :gaah:

I currently get 4 miles per kWH on my '16 Ford Focus Electric (made where my '15 CMax is made).

 

 At about 12 cents per kWH, that's 3 cents/mile, very similar to the CMax's 4cents/mile we get now.

 Of course, the bigger future Ford Electric SUV will not get 4 miles/KWH like my current Focus Electric does, so you can expect the future Ford SUV all-electric to be about 4cents/mile just like our current CMax !!!!!

[ptjones]

Now that's a car Snowstorm could get excited about.  :) Just keep it all sensible - not over-the-top like the Tesla Model X.  By 2020 The Enterprise should be near the 250k mile goal I have for it.  Of course charging had better be reasonably priced or it won't beat the near 4 cents/mile it costs now to run a C-Max!  Gas at about $2/gal and 50 MPG will be hard for an EV to beat.  But I really do want all electric - enough oil changes for one lifetime!  Which reminds me, another one is due! :gaah:

How many ICE miles are you going on a oil change? I went 14K miles on my last one and got my best oil Lab Report. :)

 

When to The Atlanta Car Show and the FORD People couldn't tell me anything about next year's CMAX situation. :headscratch:  They only had CMAX Hybrid, Both New Fusions and no Electric Focus. :sad:

 

Paul 

[Telerisk]

My take on the Unknown...whats to happen with the Ford C-max....surely no one believes Ford doesn't know the future Plans for the car....but to announce it would surely negatively impact sales of the Current year 2017 C-Max.   It's about marketing........

 

It must be me, I had a Chevy model, 2 years after purchase, it was discontinued, I had a 1999 Plymouth MiniVan; 2 years after purchase...Plymouth went away, and Now, I have a 2016 C-Max.....  I cannot say I was "Hurt" on Trade-in Values......

[SnowStorm]

How many ICE miles are you going on a oil change? I went 14K miles on my last one and got my best oil Lab Report. :)

 

When to The Atlanta Car Show and the FORD People couldn't tell me anything about next year's CMAX situation. :headscratch:  They only had CMAX Hybrid, Both New Fusions and no Electric Focus. :sad:

 

Paul 

I'm not very consistent, usually about 15k odometer miles at least.  So at 40%+ EV thats around 9k miles on ICE.  I wish the oil minder said how many miles over you are (our Fit does that).  At last change I put in the 0W-20 Mobil1.  At 122k+ miles there is still essentially no oil consumption.  Things sure have changed from 50 years ago!

[ptjones]

I guess the bottom line is there is no rush to get the oil changed, oil minder is 10k miles. :)

 

Paul

[Telerisk]

2016 Ford C-Max.  Is there a Menu display that will show you the % of Oil Life?  

 

My Honda has that Menu and it simply displays oil ....60% Oil Life left.  I do intend with my driving to change Oil & Filter annually as by yearly mileage is Approx 5,000...and short trips....but I would be interested to see what the Oil Life display shows on my C-Max before I change the Oil\Filter.

[plus 3 golfer]

2016 Ford C-Max.  Is there a Menu display that will show you the % of Oil Life?  

 

My Honda has that Menu and it simply displays oil ....60% Oil Life left.  I do intend with my driving to change Oil & Filter annually as by yearly mileage is Approx 5,000...and short trips....but I would be interested to see what the Oil Life display shows on my C-Max before I change the Oil\Filter.

Your 2016 owner's manual should tell you.  In MY 2013, there are only messages displayed like oil changed required now (no %).  The owner's manual has a page dedicated to the algorithm for oil life determination. The max. OCI on the table (normal duty) is 10 k miles.  So, it appears that since we have a hybrid (ICE not running continually, most will get the change oil message at 10 k miles, I do.  You'd probably have to tow a trailer continually to get less than 10 k miles. :)

 

I do know that with ForScan you can get the data (can't recall if miles or %) but the data is rather worthless since the OLM algorithm caps the OCI at 10 k miles. You'll always get the message at no more than 10 k miles.   I'm doing my oil changes between about 12k and 14 k miles.  

[ptjones]

We are getting off topic here, should be in this thread:  http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/3498-oil-quality-and-change-interval/ Where there is a lot of info. :)

 

Paul

[raadsel]

Not sure what to think of this -- and I'm putting this here because the Ioniq shares the powertrain and chassis with the Niro, just is a more traditional hatchback -- though still about the same cargo capacity. In any case, saw this review on the Hyundai Ioniq and the reviewer got 87.1 mpg on his test drive in the mid-level Ioniq with the Technology package (Smart Cruise, Autonomous braking, etc). Granted, he only did about 10 miles on his review but still pretty impressive:

 

Edited April 2, 2017 by raadsel

[mtta]

Got a 2013 C-Max in 2016, so I'm thinking about getting a 2018 Niro in 2021

[ptjones]

Interesting that it had 15" and 17" wheels compared to 16" and 18" wheels for the KIA NIRO.    Hyundai Ioniq is really a Prius competitor, not Prius V, CMAX or NIRO.  More aerodynamic, wonder what kind of handling with those small tires. :headscratch: 10 miles is shorter than any of the test I did on NIRO, I don't think it's very accurate.

 

Paul

 

 

[plus 3 golfer]

Interesting that it had 15" and 17" wheels compared to 16" and 18" wheels for the KIA NIRO.    Hyundai Ioniq is really a Prius competitor, not Prius V, CMAX or NIRO.  More aerodynamic, wonder what kind of handling with those small tires. :headscratch: 10 miles is shorter than any of the test I did on NIRO, I don't think it's very accurate.

 

Paul

IMO, the EPA unadjusted FE tests are as accurate as one is going to get using a dynamometer (assuming inputs are accurate) for comparing FE of similar vehicles.  Below is a comparison from the 2017 EPA data base.  We know that we can get higher and lower fuel economy numbers than even these unadjusted numbers as actual FE depends on conditions and driving style.  I've demonstrated this years ago with the following screenshot of the C-Max for a round trip.  

 

 

 

 

IMO, we are beating a "dead horse" on comparing the Niro, Ioniq, and C-Max FE.  Given the EPA numbers below and my beating the C-Max unadjusted numbers by about 10 mpg, the 84 mpg, 10 mile trip of the Ioniq is achievable, IMO.

 

Edited April 2, 2017 by Plus 3 Golfer

[raadsel]

Forgive me for posting another video but this is a former Prius owner who, after his first month and tank, got 64.5 mpg in his Niro LX over 600 miles of driving -- he says the tank wasn't quite completely full when he got it. The main point, though, is that he seems to debunk the claim that the Niro won't go into EV mode above 40 mph -- he talks about having it in EV mode at 70 mph, he shows on camera being in EV on a level freeway at 60 mph, and he states he can easily get it in EV mode at freeway speeds by just letting off the throttle.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2qSjLybL3g

[ptjones]

I watched video and he wasn't maintaining speed, You could see the speedometer going down slowly, don't know if he was going down hill or not. All I know is when I drove the NIRO's they wouldn't maintain speed above 40mph without the ICE coming on. :shrug: Just for a comparison this is what I have done and I averaged 33.2 mph. :)

 

Paul

Edited April 3, 2017 by ptjones

[ptjones]

I have a problem with EPA testing in that it doesn't take into account the way the CMAX was designed to be driven, 2 Bar acceleration technique.  I don't know if this is FORD's fault for not informing EPA how CMAX was designed to be driven or EPA's program can't be changed to accommodate different Hybrid Manufactures driving techniques. :headscratch:  It seems to me the 2 Bar acceleration technique is worth up to 4 mpg. :) IMO

 

Paul
 

[Telerisk]

Would someone provide details as to the 2 Bar acceleration technique....both text and pictures would be great.  I did a search using the string and nothing was found.  

 

​I love my 2016 C-Max; just wish I could get to the bottom of why on some hands off from EV to ICE at lower speeds I hear a click sounding noise from the right rear cargo area.  What is perplexing, it doesn't make this sound every time....its like an intermittent issue....more difficult to pinpoint and fix.  

[obob]

Would someone provide details as to the 2 Bar acceleration technique....both text and pictures would be great.  I did a search using the string and nothing was found.  

 

​I love my 2016 C-Max; just wish I could get to the bottom of why on some hands off from EV to ICE at lower speeds I hear a click sounding noise from the right rear cargo area.  What is perplexing, it doesn't make this sound every time....its like an intermittent issue....more difficult to pinpoint and fix.  

 

This might be useful:

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/2599-my-2c-ev-driving/

 

There is a picture with the second bar outlined in red.

 

The basic idea is to use the electric motor to get up to 10 to 20 mph because the electric motor is more efficient in starting things up from 0, and then use the gas motor to accelerate from there but do not go above the second bar on the Empower screen for a lot of the time that is a very efficient use of the gas motor.

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/2599-my-2c-ev-driving/?p=26845

Edited April 4, 2017 by obob

[ptjones]

 This is what accelerating at 2 Bars looks like.

I have a three part video called How to Drive a CMAX Hybrid/FFH to get Great Gas Mileage,  CMAX Mods to improve efficiency and aerodynamics,  and Hypermiling the CMAX Hybrid/FFH to improve MPG's. I'm hoping to have it on YouTube by this weekend. :)

 

Paul

Edited April 4, 2017 by ptjones

[SnowStorm]

An easy way to get 2 bar acceleration is to set Eco Cruise mode and then set the cruise speed at about 50 mph or higher.  Then after a stop, you accelerate "manually" to just over 20 mph (minimum cruise control speed is 20), tap Resume and the car will accelerate automatically at about 2 bars all the way back to the set speed.  Lower set speeds on the cruise control will give a bit less than 2 bars, higher speeds maybe a bit more.  I do this all the time - super easy and you don't have to think or watch anything.

[C-MaxSea]

.......... and we just drive judiciously in a mild climate .............. :play: :play: :play: .........

 

our dashboard 'Lifetime' MPG has tanked this winter down to 48.0 (46 at the pump). - now to be saved by spring weather !

 

Forever driving cautiously &/or spritely as the case dictates,

 

Nick

 

(making the case for attitude, as opposed to just aptitude - Ommmmmmmm  ;))

Edited April 6, 2017 by C-MaxSea