Ford recalls on engine fires

[AgentCMAX]

www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2012/12/01/ford-fusion-escape-recall/1738845/

 

I realize the recalls are not C-Max Hybrid related.

 

The C-Max hybrid is my first Ford and this recall doesn't make me feel too warm and fuzzy about Ford quality (especially considering some of the problems reported elsewhere in these forums).

 

I have experienced a small issue with the SYNC system already and also had two occurrences where my C-Max is not operating right during initial backing up of vehicle from park position (after starting car). So far I chalk the first occurrence to user error but the second occurrence is definitely not user error.

Edited December 4, 2012 by AgentCMAX

[valkraider]

Wow, Ford recalled 90,000 vehicles.  That's a lot.
 
Sure, it's not as many as 7.43 million Toyotas, but hey who is counting, right?

I think 90,000 is still smaller than another 2.44 million Toyotas - which is around 9.5 million Toyota's recalled in the past three months!.
 
Could 90,000 be lower than 1.7 million?  But Honda wouldn't make poor quality cars, right?
 
Should we forget the 12 to 14 million recalled Toyotas during the various 2009-2011 unintended acceleration recalls (which actually killed over 80 people?).
 
Maybe we should mention Chrysler's recent 900,000 cars recalled.
 
How about Toyota recalling 150,000 trucks this year?  Is that on the radar?

Lets see, there are a whole host of recalls for other vehicles too.  VW just recalled a bunch of 2012/2013 New Beetles.  Jaguar and Mercedes both just made recalls.

Here is a whole host of GM recalls: including 3500 Verano, Cruze, and Sonic models; 4000 Chevy Malibu models, another 4700 Sonic models and just before that a whole 44,000 sonic models, 500,000 Cruzes in June and 14,000 Cadillac XTSs.

 

But yeah, everyone just focus on Ford.

Man, I am not even a real Ford guy.  This will be my first Ford in over 20 years.  But please, can we be realistic here?  

 

Cars have hundreds of thousands of parts made by thousands of suppliers and companies build tens of thousands of vehicles PER DAY.  A recall is a GOOD THING because they have identified a problem and are fixing it.

I find it funny that people will expect auto manufacturers to have zero issues when they produce complex machines thousands of times every day - yet the same people probably make mistakes and have problems at their own jobs.  Look I work hard, but some times I have to correct mistakes and sometimes I don't do as good a job as I had hoped or would like.  I can only image the same holds true for the million people in the world building cars.

As long as they handle them well, as long as they fix the problems and treat customers well - I have no problem with a few recalls here and there.

[zhackwyatt]

I would argue that their car, especially something like a C-Max, is the most complex item most people own and we expect it to be the most reliable item we own.

Edited December 4, 2012 by zhackwyatt

[valkraider]

I would argue that their car, especially something like a C-Max, is the most complex item most people own and we expect it to be the most reliable item we own.

 

No kidding.  And think of all the complex and random variables people expect cars to work flawlessly in.

 

Heat, cold, humid, dry, snow, rain, fog, dust, dirt, bumps, hills, high elevation, low elevation, salty, fast, slow, long highway miles, hours in city stop&go traffic, rarely used, used all day every day, hauling a load, towing a trailer, ice, pollen, leaves & pine needles, bright sunlight, heavy braking, loud noise, in a crash or impact, etc etc etc etc.

 

And if the car makes one little burp, people freak out.

 

Cars are made better and tested better now than at any point in automotive history - while simultaneously being more complex, safe, luxurious, and fuel efficient.

 

I am not giving any auto maker a free pass.  We pay a lot of money for these things.  But I am also asking people to stop and think and have a little perspective...

[AgentCMAX]

Well in my view, if they are selling a boat load of cars then yes the recall size is just a reflection of that. Its just the type of recall (engine fires) sort of made me more alert about it, considering also how these Ford models were top rated until the redesign took place.

 

I didn't intend to single out Ford...it's just that this is a Ford forum and I am an owner of a Ford vehicle so I thought it to be appropriate to post the article and alert others.

 

As a matter of fact, those Toyota recalls for unattended acceleration was one reason why I decided on going with the Ford C-Max. In terms of complexity, the more complex the system is, I would expect a manufacturer to put even more effort into ensuring high quality. Complexity shouldn't be an excuse for poor quality.

[joe]

I always considered recalls a good thing.  Especially when initiated by the manufacturer - because they are willing to accept responsibility and to correct the problem.  The issue is how long did it take for the manufacturer to take responsibility.

[zhackwyatt]

Well in my view, if they are selling a boat load of cars then yes the recall size is just a reflection of that. Its just the type of recall (engine fires) sort of made me more alert about it, considering also how these Ford models were top rated until the redesign took place.

 

I didn't intend to single out Ford...it's just that this is a Ford forum and I am an owner of a Ford vehicle so I thought it to be appropriate to post the article and alert others.

 

As a matter of fact, those Toyota recalls for unattended acceleration was one reason why I decided on going with the Ford C-Max. In terms of complexity, the more complex the system is, I would expect a manufacturer to put even more effort into ensuring high quality. Complexity shouldn't be an excuse for poor quality.

I think it was this sentence that set him off:

 

The C-Max hybrid is my first Ford and this recall doesn't make me feel too warm and fuzzy about Ford quality (especially considering some of the problems reported elsewhere in these forums).

[valkraider]

In terms of complexity, the more complex the system is, I would expect a manufacturer to put even more effort into ensuring high quality. Complexity shouldn't be an excuse for poor quality.

 

At the same time people complain that it takes too long to bring a car to market, or that cars are too expensive, or that cars don't have the exact feature set people want.

 

Heck, every single option or configuration can increase the failure potential exponentially.  Even seemingly unrelated things can cause unforeseen problems.

 

For example some versions of a car may be equipped with a fancy infotainment system, and some may not.  A person connecting a USB device to the infotainment system could cause a millisecond power drain on the bus which causes a sensor somewhere to report a false value right at the same time that the transmission is adjusting for increased load due to a hill and it causes the engine to go into limp mode.

 

If that happens it is the result of a 1 in 20billion chance of those _exact_ variables occurring but if it does that particular customer may be very upset.

 

A car company has to try and foresee and test for all of these possible scenarios, and more:  what happens to this scenario if the headlights are on, or off, or if the heater is on high or off, or if there is high humidity of low humidity, or if the heated seats are on or off, or if the wipers are on or off, or the turn signal is on or off,  or the 12v battery is cold or weakened - or ANY combination of these things. 

[darrelld]

At the same time people complain that it takes too long to bring a car to market, or that cars are too expensive, or that cars don't have the exact feature set people want.

 

Heck, every single option or configuration can increase the failure potential exponentially.  Even seemingly unrelated things can cause unforeseen problems.

 

For example some versions of a car may be equipped with a fancy infotainment system, and some may not.  A person connecting a USB device to the infotainment system could cause a millisecond power drain on the bus which causes a sensor somewhere to report a false value right at the same time that the transmission is adjusting for increased load due to a hill and it causes the engine to go into limp mode.

 

If that happens it is the result of a 1 in 20billion chance of those _exact_ variables occurring but if it does that particular customer may be very upset.

 

A car company has to try and foresee and test for all of these possible scenarios, and more:  what happens to this scenario if the headlights are on, or off, or if the heater is on high or off, or if there is high humidity of low humidity, or if the heated seats are on or off, or if the wipers are on or off, or the turn signal is on or off,  or the 12v battery is cold or weakened - or ANY combination of these things. 

 

Elon Musk said its harder to build electric cars than rockets.

 

http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=28096

[valkraider]

Elon Musk said its harder to build electric cars than rockets.

 

http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=28096

 

Rockets are operated under controlled parameters by qualified individuals.

 

Any yahoo with a key in any location imaginable can and will operate a car.

[darrelld]

Rockets are operated under controlled parameters by qualified individuals.

 

Any yahoo with a key in any location imaginable can and will operate a car.

 

I observe this truth everyday on my way to and from work.

[AgentCMAX]

I always considered recalls a good thing.  Especially when initiated by the manufacturer - because they are willing to accept responsibility and to correct the problem.  The issue is how long did it take for the manufacturer to take responsibility.

I agree.