Prius V getting below EPA

[darrelld]

I noticed most of the major pubs including Consumer Reports referenced each other to support their view resulting in a circular reference. They picked data from this site, fuelly, and fueleconomy.gov and ignored data that contradicted the foregone conclusions.

[CNCGeek]

If this is the case (and it applied to car owners in general) then the Fuelly data would still be relevant, even if it were skewed to higher mpg drivers.

You threw in the "and it applied to car owners in general" while we clearly were discussing differences between CMAX and Prius owners...

I was referring to Fuelly users (car owners who use Fuelly). I'm not sure how that would change anything though.

Edited December 8, 2012 by CNCGeek

[CNCGeek]

I noticed most of the major pubs including Consumer Reports referenced each other to support their view resulting in a circular reference. They picked data from this site, fuelly, and fueleconomy.gov and ignored data that contradicted the foregone conclusions.

 

Thats how they make headlines. :)

 

But what is the data that contradicted the articles (serious question)?  I don't give much credibility to the CR testing until they have more miles on it and have it in different conditions, but I have not seen any other tests showing mpg close to the advertised 47mpg (aside from the EPA test itself).

 

It does look like the EPA will be double checking Ford's numbers however.

Edited December 8, 2012 by CNCGeek

[darrelld]

Thats how they make headlines. :)

 

But what is the data that contradicted the articles (serious question)?  I don't give much credibility to the CR testing until they have more miles on it and have it in different conditions, but I have not seen any other tests showing mpg close to the advertised 47mpg (aside from the EPA test itself).

 

It does look like the EPA will be double checking Ford's numbers however.

Some of the articles take the low side of the numbers posted to make the case for the article while ignoring higher scores. The impressions they are trying to make is there is no one getting EPA and that is not true.

 

I look forward to the EPA retest, they already tested the Energi with 200lbs heavier batteries and still beat the Consumer Reports findings. I think they may lower the highway rating but most hybrids I have driven inflate that number. If you understand physics there is no possible way you can carry hybrid batteries, motors, and support systems to achieve the same economy as city driving. Most highway energy is expended overcoming rolling and wind resistance, diesel is your best option for pure highway driving. A gallon of diesel starts with 10% more energy by volume/weight than gasoline and the combustion process is more complete. My Passat TDI has electric heat in the cabin because the engine is so efficient there is little waste heat left over for climate control. VW's new EA288 TDI will be even 30% more efficient than the current models but you need it to make up for the fuel costs.

Edited December 9, 2012 by darrelld

[CNCGeek]

Some of the articles take the low side of the numbers posted to make the case for the article while ignoring higher scores. The impressions they are trying to make is there is no one getting EPA and that is not true.

 

I look forward to the EPA retest, they already tested the Energi with 200lbs heavier batteries and still beat the Consumer Reports findings. I think they may lower the highway rating but most hybrids I have driven inflate that number. If you understand physics there is no possible way you can carry hybrid batteries, motors, and support systems to achieve the same economy as city driving. Most highway energy is expended overcoming rolling and wind resistance, diesel is your best option for pure highway driving. A gallon of diesel starts with 10% more energy by volume/weight than gasoline and the combustion process is more complete. My Passat TDI has electric heat in the cabin because the engine is so efficient there is little waste heat left over for climate control. VW's new EA288 TDI will be even 30% more efficient than the current models but you need it to make up for the fuel cost

I suspect that they were looking at the trend on the fuelly data, but I agree it can be cherry picked since there is no solid average yet - see below:

 

36 c-max being tracked by fuelly:

 

2 between 22-32 mpg

10 between 32-38 mpg

13 between 39-41 mpg

9 between 42-46 mpg

2 between 52-55 mpg

 

While there were 13 vehicles in the 39-41 mpg range, some owners are getting in the 50's. If they are looking at real world mpg though they should look at the 13 vehicles grouped in the middle of the chart.

 

I also hope the EPA re-tests the C-max, however I suspect they will just review the test data from Ford, and then put the report back on the shelf.

 

[C-MaxJaxon]

The C-Max cannot be compared to other vehicles until a large number of vehicles have been on the road for a full year. Cold weather hurts mileage because of warmup time and because of winter blend gas. The average will come up once a lot of cars log higher summer mileage.

[roninsd]

I agree, Jaxon.  Even in San Diego, CA, when mornings can be a little cold, it take a mile or 2 until the engine warms up enough for EV to kick in. 

[CNCGeek]

The C-Max cannot be compared to other vehicles until a large number of vehicles have been on the road for a full year. Cold weather hurts mileage because of warmup time and because of winter blend gas. The average will come up once a lot of cars log higher summer mileage.

I agree (that the average will probably come up), there needs to be more data (especially on Fuelly and the EPA site) to hopefully get a better average. I suspect that over time the fuelly data will also show improved mpg since owners will likely adjust to the car even if they do not engage in all the hypermiling methods.

 

I disagree that the c-max cannot be compared to other vehicles - Ford already did that :D I get your point though, that the Prius comparison (in the real world) is really hard to make without a good amount of real world data which we do not have yet.

Edited December 10, 2012 by CNCGeek