Need Help with the Gremlin in my 2014 CMax

[yarbie2]

I have a 2014 C-Max Hybrid I bought new in 2014. It's currently sitting at Ford for the 3rd time for the same issue & they want to send it back today again un-repaired claiming the can not find an issue. The last TWO times they did this is failed again as soon as we got it home & in the immediate days following it & the dealership has been VERY unresponsive to our calls to the shop manager despite opening a case with FORD. It is driven almost every day of the week & currently has approximately 64,000 miles on it. The problem initially began about 3 months ago when in randomly began starting on engine in always first thing in the morning when I got in & showed the battery was empty (nothing was left turned on or plugged in).  This was random & happened about 50% of the time, always in the am. After the 3rd time of doing this we took it in. They ran diagnostics & charged us for a battery they said was not covered under the warranty stating they could not preform diagnostics if this was not replaced -- $300 bucks down the drain-. They then claim diagnostics showed the car was 100% in working order, updated software & sent us on our way. We were not happy with this but were assured there was nothing was wrong with the car. We got it home, turned it off, turned it back on & it started on engine. Drove it right back to the dealership & they said all the mechanics had gone for the day & we would need to call the shop manager for an appointment. Took 1 month & the case from Ford for them to return our calls. In the mean time the car continued to start randomly on battery now not only in the morning but randomly during the day now about 85% of the time. Car went back a 2nd time, they ran diagnostics, checked the battery & said nothing was wrong, another call to Ford - Ford said to tell them they could consult with their technicians?? Car came back with nothing done to it. Now we are back a 3rd time & about to repeat the 2nd visit. I am at my whits end & don't know what to do or where to go. I DID love this car but am ready to trade it in for a Prius & I have been a LOYAL Ford gal for 25 years :-( Hoping SOMONE has seen this issue before.

[plus 3 golfer]

Are you saying the HVB (high voltage battery) display symbol shows very low charge each time ICE (internal combustion engine starts) when you start the car in the AM?   It is normal for ICE to start, if the HVB is too low.  This has nothing to do with the 12 V battery.   When you shut the car off in the evening what does the battery symbol show.  

 

Do you use EV+?  Using EV+ can drain the HVB such that ICE will start when you restart the car in the morning.

 

Do you have an SE or SEL?

[kostby]

What are your climate control (Temperature) settings when this event happens?

 

On the C-MAX Hybrid SE and Hybrid SEL, the internal combustion engine is the only source of heat to the climate control system.

Sometimes the engine runs only to provide heat, regardless of the how much charge is indicated in the hybrid battery symbol.

 

This can occur even in mild temperatures, and even when there is only a few degrees difference between outdoor air temperature and climate control temperature.

 

Our 2013 C-MAX Hybrid SE will start the engine any time the climate control temperature is set to a warmer temperature than the ambient outdoor air temperature.

Example: If the air temperature in the garage is 62 degrees and we have the climate control turned on and the temperature set to 68 degrees, the internal combustion engine will start when we start the car, in order to provide HEAT to the climate control system, so it can raise the cabin air temperature to 68 degrees.

 

You can test this:

After starting the car, and driving a mile, if you're still hearing the internal combustion engine run, switch the climate control system to OFF using the Power button.

 

If the internal combustion engine shuts down within a few seconds, you've found ONE reason why the engine may run, regardless of what the battery indicator might show. 

 

Related climate control issues:

 

If the climate control is accidentally set to (or left on from the last time) DEFROST, it can cause the internal combustion engine to run.

 

If the climate control is accidentally set to RECIRCULATE without AC or Defrost turned ON, it can cause the windows to fog. Then turning on the Defrost setting can cause the internal combustion engine to run to provide heat to help defog the windows.

Edited September 1, 2017 by kostby

[obob]

Welcome Yarbie.

 

I am going to expand on Plus 3 Golfer's response.

 

When a car is first turned on, the gasoline engine alias internal combustion engine alias ICE, may or may not go on.  If it is cold out it may turn on to warm up the engine so it will be more efficient.  If the battery that propels the car, alias the High Voltage Battery, alias HVB, needs to be charged it will start to charge the battery with the side effect of warming up the engine so knocking out two targets with one stone.  When I start out I often tap on the gas petal which start the gasoline engine to warm up the engine while in park and wait until the engine stops for I think that helps my efficiency.

 

I am sorry about you having to pay $300 dollars for a 12V battery.  My suspicion is that it was probably unnecessary and overly costly, assuming your car is still under warranty.  On the plus side you don't have to worry about a new 12V battery for awhile.

Edited September 3, 2017 by obob

[markd]

My car goes in to EV+ on my way home every day and leaves the battery close to empty. Is that what's going on with your car?

[yarbie2]

I have an SE. I turn the air/heat off when I turn the car off, nothing is left turned on or plugged in so when this happens, the air/heat/radio/windshield wipers whatever are not turned on. No settings to report they are off. Even if the car is turned off wider my battery showing full it will still randomly start on engine, don't see how it would matter if the car had been in EV or not if the battery was showing full turned off. Ford was once more no help. Going tomorrow to look at a Prius. Soo very unhappy.

[plus 3 golfer]

Here's the issue. HVB virtually never shows full when one shut car off. Could you take a pic of the HVB symbol when you turn car off and in the am when the issue happens and post.

 

Is ICE on or off the last mile or so? Also, temperature affects SOC. Higher temp yields higher SOC. Colder am temps lowers SOC

[raadsel]

I'm sorry, I don't understand your complaint. What is the hybrid battery level when you turn the car off? As others have stated, the car is basically designed to do this -- to leave the hybrid battery empty when you arrive home, as it goes into EV+ mode to drain the battery for the last half mile or so before you arrive home. I think you'll also find the Prius, while maybe not being exactly the same, will also start a lot of the time in the morning when you start it. At least part of the reason for this is, when the engine does start in the morning, it stays on to warm the engine -- Ford is intentionally leaving the charge at a lower level when it sits overnight (better for the hybrid battery), particularly since it helps get the ICE up to operating temperature before you need the power.

 

Further, it doesn't matter if you turn most of those things you mentioned off, or not, and the only one of those that even runs off the hybrid battery is the Air conditioner, the rest all draw their power from the 12V battery.

 

Again, I funny understand why the dealership says the car is operating normally -- that seems to be true, at least as you've described the issue. You'll also likely face similar "issues" with most hybrids you buy -- while some don't "drain" the battery as you go home, like the C-Max does, they all are designed to turn on relatively soon when you start in the morning particularly if it is cool out (and you turn the heater on). If you aren't wanting the ICE to turn on, then I would suggest that you needed to buy a C-Max Energi instead of the hybrid, so you could plug it in and charge the hybrid battery.

[ptjones]

In your case it might be better to turn the EV+ off and see what happens. Also I would have taken it to a different Dealer after the second time to get some help, preferably one specializes in Hybrids. I have never heard of this problem before. :headscratch: 

 

Paul