ptjones Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 I have a solution for poor MPG on CMAX Hybrid that would increase City MPG by 3-10MPG's and 2-3 MPG's Hwy for about a hundred dollars approx. in parts,but Ford doesn't allow you to modify their CMAX without the possiblity of voiding the warranty. Not using their air filter could void your waranty. So you can't solve the problem yourself and they will take your idea if you don't have a patient. No quick cheap solutions here. What can you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoutsNC Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 Well, you have peaked my interest... I have to assume you have been playing around with something new again ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 Not using their air filter could void your waranty. That is not true, they explicitly by law have to allow you to use aftermarket products. If a failure does happen the manufacturer has to prove it was the aftermarket product which actually caused a failure. They can require that things like filters and whatnot meet certain specifications - but they cannot require you to buy Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted December 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 I agree with you on that but how many people are going to take a chance on voiding their waranty. No part of my plan requires drilling holes or any noticeable changes that can't be undone. I wish we had spell check. One part is electrical so I need to make sure I do it right. See if i can find an expert. Do you have your ENERGI yet and are you going to put it on Fuelly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 It is on the rails, I am tracking it daily. :) Yes, I will put it on Fuelly, but I am a bit nervous about that because most of our driving will be electric so I am hesitant to skew the numbers unless they create a separate Energi model to track. I will be putting probably 25 miles a day on pure electric with a few longer runs on the weekend. It is going to take me forever to need a fuel fill up (except at first where we are so excited to play with the car we will be driving all over just because we are so glad we are not driving the truck anymore). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelld Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 It is on the rails, I am tracking it daily. :) Yes, I will put it on Fuelly, but I am a bit nervous about that because most of our driving will be electric so I am hesitant to skew the numbers unless they create a separate Energi model to track. I will be putting probably 25 miles a day on pure electric with a few longer runs on the weekend. It is going to take me forever to need a fuel fill up (except at first where we are so excited to play with the car we will be driving all over just because we are so glad we are not driving the truck anymore). You have a charger at work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted December 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 That's great and go ahead and skew the numbers, there are people out there that are either driving to the store 2mi and back or driving 80mph on the fwy to get 31-33mpg average. What a diffence truck to CMAX. WOW! Both ends of MPG spectrium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 Yes, I have a charger at work and also at most places we shop, so we will be looking to keep in the EV miles. ;)Well, the truck is temporary. We sold a Jetta TDI and a Camaro and the truck is filling the gap until our Energi comes in. I am really tired of driving and parking a truck with a camper in the city... ugh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelld Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) Yes, I have a charger at work and also at most places we shop, so we will be looking to keep in the EV miles. ;) Well, the truck is temporary. We sold a Jetta TDI and a Camaro and the truck is filling the gap until our Energi comes in. I am really tired of driving and parking a truck with a camper in the city... ugh! You some great options there for filling up your electron tank. We had a Jetta TDI that we traded for the C-Max. We also had 2001 Z28 Camaro purchased new. We seriously debated the Energi but wanted to wait and see how the early adopters faired in 110+ degree climates. I have a post on here for thermal properties and temperature relationships. Edited December 11, 2012 by darrelld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 I'm guessing the battery will be better at temperature extremes than the Leaf but not as good as the Volt. The Leaf has passive temp management, the Energi has active air temp management and the Volt has active fluid temperature management. If I am comfortable in the cabin, the battery should do OK as well. However I am very worried about someone packing the back with gear and blocking the air vents... I will probably be an annoying control freak about keeping those vents clear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelld Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 I'm guessing the battery will be better at temperature extremes than the Leaf but not as good as the Volt. The Leaf has passive temp management, the Energi has active air temp management and the Volt has active fluid temperature management. If I am comfortable in the cabin, the battery should do OK as well. However I am very worried about someone packing the back with gear and blocking the air vents... I will probably be an annoying control freak about keeping those vents clear... The thermal load when charging is what I will observe. There is no battery life monitor like the Leaf but owners would notice reduced range as an early warning sign. May trade up in a couple of years if the reports look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 Ford is watching all that, as all the usage data gets uploaded to the cloud. I wonder if this sort of thing will show up in the vehicle health diagnostic reports? But they are logging all the data about the electrical system. Much like Nissan is with the Leaf and Chevy is with the Volt. Can you imagine how much faster automobile technology would have developed if manufacturers could log usage and performance characteristics of their ICE vehicles when the technology was young? A couple years of pattern analysis and performance logs can make each generation that much better. More efficient, more reliable, and more cost effective to build and maintain. Just look at how much GM has learned about the Volt usage patterns! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelld Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 Helpful to the engineers no doubt, I am sure you have seen Who Killed the Electic Car part I and II? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 However I am very worried about someone packing the back with gear and blocking the air vents... I will probably be an annoying control freak about keeping those vents clear... valk, the vents are at the level of the top of the seats, there are ducts along the side of the cargo area. You'd have to be pretty fully packed for anything to cover them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNCGeek Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) That's great and go ahead and skew the numbers, there are people out there that are either driving to the store 2mi and back or driving 80mph on the fwy to get 31-33mpg average. What a diffence truck to CMAX. WOW! Both ends of MPG spectrium.Maybe contact fuelly to request that they will an Energi category. If Energi's are mixed with hybrids in the fuelly data, that will be a something that could be pointed out to explain higher numbers which may be legit hypermilers using the hybrid. EDIT - I just emailed the to suggest splitting the C-max category into a c-max hybrid and c-max energi category. Edited December 11, 2012 by CNCGeek Adair 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted December 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 I already talked to them and they said ENERGI is an option not a separate car line. Fuelly is up to 40.6mpg and by the end of the month 47mpg. I have my ScanGuage installed so I can monitor water temp.,air intake temp, instantaneous mpg and RPM's. This will help fine tune my ideas. Stay tuned for further updates. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) test Edited December 11, 2012 by Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted December 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 I'm getting frustrated trying to make something happen with my idea. So here it is. It has four parts 1. FORD should have supplied DVD to show how to setup the instrumentation and driving techniques required to get the EPA gas mileage. This would have mitigated some customer issues and raised the overall fuel mileage by a couple of MPG's anyway at least on Fuelly.com. 2. Ford should sell an oil pan heater so at least when you start in the morning the engine is half way warmed up. It's 45 degress today at lunch time I drove 10mi. with 3 stops and the coolant never got above 145 degress. That included having my front center grill cover on. Then I made my standard run down the fwy at 62mph on ECO cruise and back to see how high it would go and how long it would take. It took 6.5mi to get to 195 degress at my turn around point. It was EV mode for turn around, temps climbed 206 degress, but as soon as ICE was on it droped to 195-200 degress. It looks like the thermosat opens around 195 degress. The results for that trip are 45degress outside temp.,14.2mi, 12mi Hwy. at 62mph ECO cruise., 5.7EV, .6 Regen, 42.1MPG, .3 gal.,BRK S 98%. 3. FORD should sell a small Lithium battery charger so you could charge your car up at home or work. This could double your City MPG's and help your Hwy if you weren't going to far. You do have 2mi range in EV. 4. My testing has shown that my center grill cover improves MPG at least 2MPG, I got 4-5MPG at 70mph. Maybe future CMAX's could have a smooth grill with decal of grill on it. :) The First three would easily get the CityMPG over 47MPG. #4 would probably make 47MPG at 65mph and 70 degress, maybe 45mpg at 70mph and 80 degress. BTW th ScanGuage is really great. You can watch the MPG's go up in ICE as the battery charges going up hill! It started at 25mpg and ended up at 29mpg before going to EV. I probably should have started new thead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdefny Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 The DVD/training is a great idea and would have been worth every penny they paid for it. Especially since they are targeting "optimizers" and "early adopters", which describes just about everybody on this site. If this group can't consistantly make the MPGs, then no one can. The oil pan heater should also be built in, especially on the Energi, which is already plugged in. Again a no-brainer. The option to use a charger is brilliant in that it blurs the line between a hybrid and a plugin and provides a small, but meaningful benefit that I have long wished for in my Prius. It is all the more meaningful in the C-Max, with its larger battery and more powerful motor. I am not sure about the grill cover. It is a good idea, but the C-Max already has automatic shutters that do the job. What more would the cover do and could it be carried too far, to the point that the engine cooling is impared? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted December 11, 2012 Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 Ford already did number 3. It comes with the Energi model and includes a larger battery. ;) All kidding aside, the extra cost may not be worth it just for 2 miles. Heck, I don't even consider the thousand dollars extra for the 8 miles in the plug-in Prius to be a good value... ptjones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted December 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 The DVD/training is a great idea and would have been worth every penny they paid for it. Especially since they are targeting "optimizers" and "early adopters", which describes just about everybody on this site. If this group can't consistantly make the MPGs, then no one can. The oil pan heater should also be built in, especially on the Energi, which is already plugged in. Again a no-brainer. The option to use a charger is brilliant in that it blurs the line between a hybrid and a plugin and provides a small, but meaningful benefit that I have long wished for in my Prius. It is all the more meaningful in the C-Max, with its larger battery and more powerful motor. I am not sure about the grill cover. It is a good idea, but the C-Max already has automatic shutters that do the job. What more would the cover do and could it be carried too far, to the point that the engine cooling is impared?First there are three inlets on a CMAX. Top one lets air in engine compartment and air intake for ICE. Center and bottom ones go to radiator. Closing the center one improves aerodynamics and helps to warmup ICE sooner and wasting less gas. Radiator has an electric fan for when it gets hot. When it gets in the 80's it would be a good idea to have a notch in the cover for the hole in grill. Your MPG's go up with outside temps. Don't forget to get on Fuelly.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted December 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Ford already did number 3. It comes with the Energi model and includes a larger battery. ;) All kidding aside, the extra cost may not be worth it just for 2 miles. Heck, I don't even consider the thousand dollars extra for the 8 miles in the plug-in Prius to be a good value...You could make one for $10 in material, a few fillups would do it, although in your case it might take awhile. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoutsNC Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Great ideas there! I have thought about the block heater or something like that as well. As temps drop here, I might tinker around with a couple of options and see how they work out. I have also thought about a battery charger. I understand that they would love to sell the Energi's, but I think a charger accessory option for the standard C-Max would be great. With the EV+ coming into work and home now, my battery is extremely low when I turn the car off. With a charge, it would at least save me a bit of fuel. I would be highly interested in your temp differences with and without your grill cover. With the ScanGuage, you can see realtime intake temps. I think it would be a great test to see what they are with and without the cover. Of course, the car would have to be up to temp already for the testing with a fairly stable temp outside. I would really like to have an indicator for the position on the louvers for the grill. I have yet to play around down there, but I probably will before too long. If there is a switch (which I am sure there is) I am thinking of connecting an LED to show me the current position while I am driving. I would think that they should be closed at all times until the car's engine reaches 170-180 in temp. There are also some holes in the top grill area that I noticed. I am sure during very cold weather these would make a diffence as well. I do not see where they close off with the louvers though. Keep up the great ideas. It might be really interesting what some small changes could do to MPG. If you get any crazy ideas, you better file for a provisional patent before talking too much ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhackwyatt Posted December 12, 2012 Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 First there are three inlets on a CMAX. Top one lets air in engine compartment and air intake for ICE. Center and bottom ones go to radiator. Closing the center one improves aerodynamics and helps to warmup ICE sooner and wasting less gas. Radiator has an electric fan for when it gets hot. When it gets in the 80's it would be a good idea to have a notch in the cover for the hole in grill. Your MPG's go up with outside temps. Don't forget to get on Fuelly.comI live in Phoenix and when it's 115 out, there is no way I'm going to interfere w/ any cooling mechanism in this car :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted December 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I live in Phoenix and when it's 115 out, there is no way I'm going to interfere w/ any cooling mechanism in this car :)The notch in the cover is lined up with the hole in the center grill so as not to impede cooling at any temperature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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