New C-MAx owner - intro and a question

[blakespot]

Hey folks,

 

I just purchased a fairly maxed used 2013 C-Max for just over $9K. It is in visibly pristine condition but with 74,000 miles. The prev owner purchased at my dealer and CARMAX shows she hit every maintenance point on the Ford list and the car runs great. Black Hybrid SEL - leather seats, MyTouch, heated seats, sunroof, etc. We were a one car family for 17 years - purchased a new Fusion 2015 2 years ago and needed this car for new work commute in DC. 

 

I hear that 87 oct gas is the ideal - but if there is better performance I would pay for 91 oct. Thoughts?

 

My main Q tho is re EV+. I would like to delete prev owner's learned EV+ routes, and manual says that can be done under settings for Driver Assist. But I look there and only see the ability to turn it on or off via settings. How does one delete the old routes? I've spent 2-3 hours looking for the settings but cannot find it. Help would be appreciated.

 

Also opinions. Does 74K mile car have lots of life left? I got a 4 year 1000 point warranty with it, tho it is not a "certified vehicle," so much should be covered. I really like the mix. It's got better tech than my 2 year newer Fusion. The orig purchase price was $31,000 in 2013 apparently.

 

Thanks folks. Glad to be here. So far it's a fun vehicle.

 

 

 

bp

Edited January 7, 2018 by blakespot

[obob]

Welcome blakespot

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/4236-ev-mode/

 

I found this with this search - my experience is google is a better way to search this site compared to the search on this site

 

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=lfpQWtmBL5SvjwS4u464Cg&q=fordcmaxhybridforum.com+ev%2B&oq=fordcmaxhybridforum.com+ev%2B&gs_l=psy-ab.3...3145.3145.0.4147.3.2.0.0.0.0.210.210.2-1.2.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.1.277.6..35i39k1.277.MuQBMhQ8b70

Edited January 6, 2018 by obob

[obob]

On the 91 octane, there are people that use that and get better gas mileage.  I have used it once or twice and it does seem to get better mileage.  I am not sure about "performance" other than mileage but I assume it would have more power.  My car has plenty varroooooM for me.

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/2345-dont-waste-your-money-with-premium-gas/

 

( found with search on google with fordcmaxhybridforum.com octane )

Edited January 6, 2018 by obob

[blakespot]

Welcome blakespot

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/4236-ev-mode/

 

I found this with this search - my experience is google is a better way to search this site compared to the search on this site

 

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=lfpQWtmBL5SvjwS4u464Cg&q=fordcmaxhybridforum.com+ev%2B&oq=fordcmaxhybridforum.com+ev%2B&gs_l=psy-ab.3...3145.3145.0.4147.3.2.0.0.0.0.210.210.2-1.2.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.1.277.6..35i39k1.277.MuQBMhQ8b70

Thanks. Running through the thread I don't see any indication of how to make the system forget what it's learned (previous driver). Did I miss it? I am thinking this might not be possible, despite the manual for the 2013 model. 

[blakespot]

Any thoughts on purchasing the pretty-much-maxed (no rear camera tho sadly) 2013 SEL for ~$9,000 ($31,000 when new apparently) but with 74,000 miles? Questionable decision, or no? (As I said, user hit every Ford maintenance target as CARMAX reveals). No wrecks, looks like a dent was repaired when I went looking for it after seeing it on the CARMAX. 

 

(Interestingly Ford dealership purchase of used car form indicated chips in windshield, paint chipped on hood and on rear hatch -- yet no chips are visible whatsoever. Did they repaint it? Obv windshield was replaced. Not sure how Ford does these things.)

 

Also - I have used synthetic oil in my cars since 2003, and do in my 2015 fusion, but this car has never had it surely. Maybe going to synthetic at 74K miles would be a bad thing, given the sure presence of normal engine wear in that time. Thoughts?

 

Thanks. 

[plus 3 golfer]

Best $9000 car you can buy, IMO.  Only known costly issue could be bearing failure in the transmission.  There are recent posts on this.  There's plenty of life left in the powertrain.  Based on Ford's key life tests / modeling, the HVB has a long useful life. There's posts on this also.

 

My thoughts:

1) Unless you are "fixated" on FE vs overall economics, use 87 octane as your FE increase with 91 octane (if any) will not pay for the current price difference between 87 and 91 octane gas. 

2) With respect to oil, a Ford dealer will use a synthetic blend to meet the Motorcraft oil specification.  If you DIY oil changes, you can do full synthetic with filter for less than $30.  The synthetic  will likely be good for well past 10k miles (based on UOAs by owners).  Switching to synthetic will not "harm" ICE at any mileage.

3) Your car should learn new EV+ settings.  I've moved three times and have spent time in many other locations for several weeks at a time with many new EV+ settings learned. The algorithm apparently replaces older, not used ones with more recent learned ones.  

4) Dealers will repaint front bumper shroud and fix small paint chips and dents.  It's normal especially for a car with 74k miles.

[blakespot]

Best $9000 car you can buy, IMO.  Only known costly issue could be bearing failure in the transmission.  There are recent posts on this.  There's plenty of life left in the powertrain.  Based on Ford's key life tests / modeling, the HVB has a long useful life. There's posts on this also.

 

My thoughts:

1) Unless you are "fixated" on FE vs overall economics, use 87 octane as your FE increase with 91 octane (if any) will not pay for the current price difference between 87 and 91 octane gas. 

2) With respect to oil, a Ford dealer will use a synthetic blend to meet the Motorcraft oil specification.  If you DIY oil changes, you can do full synthetic with filter for less than $30.  The synthetic  will likely be good for well past 10k miles (based on UOAs by owners).  Switching to synthetic will not "harm" ICE at any mileage.

3) Your car should learn new EV+ settings.  I've moved three times and have spent time in many other locations for several weeks at a time with many new EV+ settings learned. The algorithm apparently replaces older, not used ones with more recent learned ones.  

4) Dealers will repaint front bumper shroud and fix small paint chips and dents.  It's normal especially for a car with 74k miles.

Thanks for the input. You have made me feel at ease here. I love the car! It's fun and at high speed at seems to have more pick-up than our 1.5L ecoboost turbo Fusion 2015. Frankly, I like it better than (but I've not told the wife...I don't want her to take to driving it!).

 

Glad to hear powertrain has lots of life left. How about battery life? I hear replacement is ~150,000 at $1,500. My new commute is prob 6,000 miles/year but slow (1hr each way in DC traffic -- just 6.8 miles on the road each way!). Maybe battery replacement isn't even in the future of my use of this vehicle.

 

My main concern re octane fuel is power. I would pay a little more if the engine can adjust and I can get extra power. But I want to do what is best overall for the car.

 

I purchased a 1,000 point 4-year warranty on the vehicle so transmission, etc. is fully covered. I guess that clears things for a while then, it seems.

 

The C-Max has more in-console tech than our SYNC Fusion and I love it. It feels like a advanced cockpit. Driving it is a joy. I just had been feeling I needed to take it easy or something re: 74K miles, but as I said the orig owner hit every maintenance window so prob good to treat it as I desire. 

 

Any clue what the know up top is for near sunglasses bay? It's next to the also inexplicable button left of it that looks like a painter's palette that seems to have no effect on anything. 

 

I was similarly enthused about my 2002 Neon -- somehow felt like a little fun cart. This feels the same. 

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

 

bp

[blakespot]

Here she is btw.

 

[plus 3 golfer]

Remember that the electric motor can provide virtually instantaneos torque of around 117 lbft (IIRC).  So, any increase in torque from ICE using higher octane fuel would likely not be noticed under WOT.  

 

I ran tests and recorded data using higher octane gas.  Timing does advance significantly using 91 octane.  But my seat of the pants sensors couldn't detect and performace improvements with higher octane fuel.  But it's your money.  Give higher octane fuel a try. :)

 

See below for Key Life Test of HVB.

 

 

 

[ptjones]

Here is what I know with 175K on my 2013 SEL, Premium defiantly makes a 1-2 mpg depending on Octane which can be 93 down to 90 in NM I think. I have used a ScanGaugeII to monitor this. I'm not saying it is cost effective, but I have been using Premium most of the time and the few times I didn't I was very frustrated. :sad: 

Second: I hope you have the OEM Michelin tires on the car, anything else decreases MPG's.

Third: this thread will tell you how to get the best MPG's: http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/6568-how-to-drive-a-cmax-hybridffh-to-get-great-gas-mileage/page-1

Forth: I have been using Mobil 1 with FORD oil filter and got my best BlackStone oil analysis so far with 13K ICE mi. and about 30K odometer miles. :) The ICE will out last the car. 

Fifth: Hopefully you won't have trans problems, but if you do want to have them before the warranty runs out at 8yrs/100k mi.

 

The way things are going on my car it could go to +500K mi. :)

 

Paul 

 

Paul  

[raadsel]

Thanks for the input. You have made me feel at ease here. I love the car! It's fun and at high speed at seems to have more pick-up than our 1.5L ecoboost turbo Fusion 2015. Frankly, I like it better than (but I've not told the wife...I don't want her to take to driving it!).

 

Glad to hear powertrain has lots of life left. How about battery life? I hear replacement is ~150,000 at $1,500. My new commute is prob 6,000 miles/year but slow (1hr each way in DC traffic -- just 6.8 miles on the road each way!). Maybe battery replacement isn't even in the future of my use of this vehicle.

 

My main concern re octane fuel is power. I would pay a little more if the engine can adjust and I can get extra power. But I want to do what is best overall for the car.

 

I purchased a 1,000 point 4-year warranty on the vehicle so transmission, etc. is fully covered. I guess that clears things for a while then, it seems.

 

The C-Max has more in-console tech than our SYNC Fusion and I love it. It feels like a advanced cockpit. Driving it is a joy. I just had been feeling I needed to take it easy or something re: 74K miles, but as I said the orig owner hit every maintenance window so prob good to treat it as I desire. 

 

Any clue what the know up top is for near sunglasses bay? It's next to the also inexplicable button left of it that looks like a painter's palette that seems to have no effect on anything. 

 

I was similarly enthused about my 2002 Neon -- somehow felt like a little fun cart. This feels the same. 

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

 

bp

 

it sounds like for the battery life, you are confusing the C-Max, which uses Lithium Polymer (LiPo) batteries, with the Prius, which uses nickel–metal hydride (NiMH). The NiMH batteries do tend to die between 100,000 and 150,000 miles. LiPo batteries should last considerably longer; Ford says in their testing merely that the batteries should last the "life of the car." While it is unclear exactly what that means, Hyundai's testing for their hybrids indicated their LiPo hybrid battery should last 300,000 miles. While it is unclear what the real world longevity of what a LiPo battery might be in our C-Max's, early indications make it appear it should last beyond 150,000 miles.

 

OTOH, if the battery does need replacing it is unclear how cheaply it will be able to be done for. You can get a Prius battery done for $1500 (or possibly less) partly because there are so many older Prius that need to have batteries replaced. Part of the cheap price is that, when a "battery" fails many shops don't replace the entire battery, or replace it with a reconditioned battery pack they used from a previous battery replacement. They instead find the bad cells and replace them, then recondition the older cells so that they will last longer. They aren't fully replacing the battery; those cost $2500 for a new pack (with the labor extra). Since C-Max batteries are not yet failing (at least that I've heard of), it is unclear how expensive battery replacement may be.

[fbov]

Hey folks,

 

I just purchased a fairly maxed used 2013 C-Max ...

 

I hear that 87 oct gas is the ideal - ...

 

My main Q tho is re EV+. I would like to delete prev owner's learned EV+ routes, ...

Welcome!

 Here's an interesting site. Enter your VIN and you'll get a list of your options, and any outstanding recalls. 

http://www.etis.ford.com/

Enter your VIN under the "Vehicle" tab. 

 

Fuel: if you're careful and learn how to integrate the car and the terrain, you can get very high mileage. In these cases, octane and ethanol content will make a difference. At no point will you break even on the added cost, even if it's only a couple bucks. Paul Jones is one of the best at attaining high mileage, so he sees a benefit. I saw a similar benefit on in my rural commute. 

 

BUT there was no benefit otherwise; most folks are better off using 87 octane 10% ethanol. I never saw a difference in highway driving, or on strange roads where I couldn't use the terrain around the corner to my advantage. 

 

EV+ will take care of itself. It can remember multiple spots if you hit them regularly. I used to drive past the dealership, and major services and upgrades would register their location as deserving of EV+. It never hurt my real destinations. Turn on and off multiple times (10x?) to register a location. 

 

Only concern with longevity of this car is the transmission on our early 2013's. Lots of threads here. 

 

... I love the car! It's fun ...seems to have more pick-up... 

 

How about battery life? ...

 

My main concern re octane fuel is power. I would pay a little more if the engine can adjust and I can get extra power. But I want to do what is best overall for the car....

 

Any clue what the (knob) up top is for near sunglasses bay? It's next to the also inexplicable button left of it that looks like a painter's palette that seems to have no effect on anything. 

There are real advantages to pairing an electric motor with a small gasoline engine. The latter is dead at zero RPM, while the other's power is limited only by the available current at zero when stopped. You'll spin the tires on occasion.  

 

The key life test result tells me battery life is nothing to worry about. Ford did a very good job protecting the battery... you only use the middle 40% of the 1.5KWh capacity. Dash indicator limits are about 30% and 70%, and that's a very good thing for battery life. 

 

Driving a hybrid is not about power, it's about efficiency. This is an Atkinson-cycle engine after all; revving quickly to high RPMs is its greatest weakness. Turning the engine at less than 2000 RPM and accelerating, while still charging the battery, will get you up to speed with a full battery, ready to coast on EV. 60MPG is achievable on a round trip course (one-way trips can't be trusted).

 

Half-throttle rabbit-starts will put you on par with Consumer Reports' test drivers. 

 

The knob and buttons are "ambient lighting." You can change the color of the accent lights in the foot wells and door latch (palette) as well as the intensity (knob). If equipped... mine was. Try turning it on (knob) then pressing the switch, in the dark. 

 

BTW, the owners' manual is available online; I just searched for "palette."

 

Have fun,

Frank

[blakespot]

Welcome!

 Here's an interesting site. Enter your VIN and you'll get a list of your options, and any outstanding recalls. 

http://www.etis.ford.com/

Enter your VIN under the "Vehicle" tab.

...

 

Have fun,

Frank

Thanks for the info, Frank. I have purchased a 1,000-point 4 year warranty for the vehicle that would cover the transmission. I suppose that's likely to fail here soon then?

 

Also, odd on the website (see image attached). Information I've been given at the dealer calls this a 2013 C-Max Hybrid SEL. But the VIN tracker on Ford's site is calling it a 2014, and using both the term Energi (all electric??) and Hybrid.

 

[plus 3 golfer]

ETIS is not applicable for the US market.  IIRC, it's for the EU.  Thus, data may not always be correct. The warranty extension of 5 years from in-service date for the SYNC / MFT is applicable.

[markd]

I expiramented with higher octane fuel and found better mpg's, not enough to justify the cost imo, but no increase in porformance, if that helps. There's no reason to think that you can't get ten years out of this vehicle.

[markd]

The knob and button are for changing the interior lighting, play with it after dark.

[blakespot]

...

2) With respect to oil, a Ford dealer will use a synthetic blend to meet the Motorcraft oil specification.  If you DIY oil changes, you can do full synthetic with filter for less than $30.  The synthetic  will likely be good for well past 10k miles (based on UOAs by owners).  Switching to synthetic will not "harm" ICE at any mileage.

...

Is it likely that the blend was used vs. pure Motorcraft oil? It's quite cold here -- 10F today. I will go full synthetic at next change, maybe even a little early. 

 

Thanks.

 

bp

[plus 3 golfer]

Is it likely that the blend was used vs. pure Motorcraft oil? It's quite cold here -- 10F today. I will go full synthetic at next change, maybe even a little early. 

 

Thanks.

 

bp

It's not about blend vs full synthetic.  It's about the viscosity ratings.  0W20 vs 5W20 as dealers "might" use either.  0W20 will have a better viscosity index for cold temperatures vs 5W20.  If customer doesn't specify, dealer will likely use the cheaper oil blend on their oil change specials. Dealer will charge signifcantly more if customer wants full synthetics. 

 

See this older post on oil viscosity as Ford changed the spec on oil for the 2014 MY C-Max to 0W20.  I would hope dealers are using 0W20 on MY 2013s. 

[ptjones]

Interestingly BlackStone Labs suggested I could go to 15K ICE mi. with last Oil Report results which would be about 35k odometer miles. :)

 

Paul

[blakespot]

It's not about blend vs full synthetic.  It's about the viscosity ratings.  0W20 vs 5W20 as dealers "might" use either.  0W20 will have a better viscosity index for cold temperatures vs 5W20.  If customer doesn't specify, dealer will likely use the cheaper oil blend on their oil change specials. Dealer will charge signifcantly more if customer wants full synthetics. 

 

See this older post on oil viscosity as Ford changed the spec on oil for the 2014 MY C-Max to 0W20.  I would hope dealers are using 0W20 on MY 2013s. 

I got the dealer to give me the report of what was done after the car was sold to them a few months ago and I see that X0-5W20-QSP was used - synthetic blend but 5W20. Would it be wise to switch out for 0W20 esp given the unusually cold weather here in DC, now? I could take the $ hit if it's extending the car's life to a degree.

 

 

 

bp

[plus 3 golfer]

I got the dealer to give me the report of what was done after the car was sold to them a few months ago and I see that X0-5W20-QSP was used - synthetic blend but 5W20. Would it be wise to switch out for 0W20 esp given the unusually cold weather here in DC, now? I could take the $ hit if it's extending the car's life to a degree.

 

 

 

bp

I doubt using blends, full synthetic or different viscosity oils will have any significant effect on engine life.  The general benefit of using lower viscosity oil in cold weather is the engine will "turn" easier and thus there should be a FE benefit when the engine is cold.  The general benefit of using synthetic oil is that one can go longer between oil changes. 

 

I would use 0W20 full synthetic.  If you really want to get into a debate on oil go to BOB IS THE OIL GUY website.

[fbov]

I got the dealer to give me the report of what was done after the car was sold to them a few months ago and I see that X0-5W20-QSP was used - synthetic blend but 5W20. Would it be wise to switch out for 0W20 esp given the unusually cold weather here in DC, now? ...

I don't see an opportunity for life extension; your "unusually cold" is my normal, and I've been doing oil analyses all along. February 2015 was record cold and there's nothing odd resulting. 

Bov Oil data 170627.pdf

 

From this data, I would suggest against 0W20 oil. Look at the "flashpoint" and "fuel%" and it appears 0W20 lets more fuel into the oil. Conversely, for the last change, I had a 3+ hr. highway run immediately preceding, which would have driven any fuel from the oil. I'll let you know about the 5W20 EP late this year. 

 

Note that I also list the base oil contents at right, for comparison. Many of the additives vary with the oil, not the service. 

 

I doubt using blends, full synthetic or different viscosity oils will have any significant effect on engine life.  The general benefit of using lower viscosity oil in cold weather is the engine will "turn" easier and thus there should be a FE benefit when the engine is cold.  The general benefit of using synthetic oil is that one can go longer between oil changes. 

 

I would use 0W20 full synthetic.  If you really want to get into a debate on oil go to BOB IS THE OIL GUY website.

+1 to Bob

 

Based on my car's data, I'm hypothesizing that in hybrids running primarily "city" mode, where the engine is off much of the time and oil never gets to operating temperature, 5W20 may have greater resistance to oil infiltration. Note that my car's only winter oil change was 2014, also the only winter I stayed warm taking the highway nearly every day. It's the lowest flashpoint with 5W20. I await the next oil change result to see if there's a consistent pattern. No reason to expect one; most 5W20 synthetics are real close to 0W20 viscosity specs. 

 

When the oil life alarm next sounds, I may just test, not change, and see if my oil ages as well as Paul's has... with TBN, too. 

 

Have fun,

Frank 

Edited January 9, 2018 by fbov

[blakespot]

Plus 3 Golfer vs fbov -- what to do.

 

I was all set to go have the oil changed to full synth 0W20 tomorrow... Hmmm.

 

Typically it's not much colder than 25F around here in winter. Summers 100-102 tops. #DC 

 

 

 

bp

[ptjones]

The only reason to go to 0W20 Full synthetic is FE from what I can see and that is why I use it.  I checked my last oil change and FORD put in their standard 5W20 instead of 0W20 that the new CMAX's use, but my MPG's went up which has nothing to do with oil used. Driving conditions have everything to do with MPG's. :)

 

Paul

[blakespot]

The only reason to go to 0W20 Full synthetic is FE from what I can see and that is why I use it.  I checked my last oil change and FORD put in their standard 5W20 instead of 0W20 that the new CMAX's use, but my MPG's went up which has nothing to do with oil used. Driving conditions have everything to do with MPG's. :)

 

Paul

My primary concern is getting the most out of this used vehicle with 74K miles on it. I will go full synthetic next oil change, but still can't decide if 0W20 or 5W20 is the way to go -- or if I should do it soon in order to reduce start-up wear in the cold here. There are arguments for staying with 5W and changing to 0W both here, I see. Did Ford change the rec oil for the C-Max at a certain model onward, or thru the whole line at the same time? Thanks.

 

 

bp