Ford Motors sued over mileage efficiency of C-MAX

[ptjones]

I don't buy the 5 mpg improvement either after the car is broken in.  Maybe a few % gain but not say 5 mpg / 37 mpg or 13.5% gain.  But time will tell. 

 

What makes more sense to me with respect to reviewers / owners seeing significantly lower fuel economy than EPA relates more to the responsiveness, available power, quietness of the C-Max vs most hybrids.   If I don't set cruise, it's very easy for my speed to creep up well above the speed limit whether that's cruising where speed limits are 45 or 75 mph.  This just doesn't happen in a Prius. Give the Prius gas and you can hear the engine reving. Not as much in the C-Max. The C-Max is simply more responsive to slight variations in throttle and is significantly quieter (less road and engine noise in the cabin) at highway speeds.  IMHO, it is harder to drive the C-Max for economy than the Prius.  An eco button would make sense.

 

Probably in the Spring, I will run some mpg vs speed tests and see how the C-Max stacks up against this graph. The W11, W20, and W30 are the Prius 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation models, respectively.

 

 

 

Here's my CMAX cover vs. no-cover improvement plot. As you can see I gained 4mpg for all temps between 37-65deg.F I did 6 runs with cover off and 11 runs with the cover on. A run was 14.2mi  long with .5mi to start from my shop to fwy ECO-criuse to 70mph GPS and go 6mi to off ramp and back on ramp to return to my office. The average EV was 2.2mi and regen was .6mi with brake score of 98%. The ICE got up to temp twice as fast with cover on. At lower temps ICE never got up to temp with cover off.The graph points out dramatically the effect temps have on MPG's with a loss of 7mpg for 30deg.F drop in temps. Unfortunately your graph makes no mention of temps which could make big difference in results. As far as breakin goes I think 1-2mpg improvement is reasonable. You could get a 5mpg improvement from change in driving technique. I think there are a couple of post of MPG vs Speed in Mileage thread. BTW it was 16mi from Bell Ford  to my daughter's in Suprise.

Edited December 31, 2012 by ptjones

[plus 3 golfer]

Here's my CMAX cover vs. no-cover improvement plot.

Great graph. Wow what a difference.  If you can find a way to attach the covers without the mounts (velcro or whatever) showing with the covers off, I'd buy them.  

 

Did you have the climate control  on or off (are you heating the cabin) in the two curves?  If it's off, do you have curves with it on?  Do you have curves at other speeds? say 35ish and 55ish? or do you believe the effect would be the same at all speeds?  Very interesting project.

 

My runs in the Jetta were all done around 60 - 75 *F but with engine fully up to temperature.  I believe Bob Wilson also did his tests with the Prii up to temp.  Don't know about the others.

 

Thanks, Ken

[ptjones]

Great graph. Wow what a difference.  If you can find a way to attach the covers without the mounts (velcro or whatever) showing with the covers off, I'd buy them.  

 

Did you have the climate control  on or off (are you heating the cabin) in the two curves?  If it's off, do you have curves with it on?  Do you have curves at other speeds? say 35ish and 55ish? or do you believe the effect would be the same at all speeds?  Very interesting project.

 

My runs in the Jetta were all done around 60 - 75 *F but with engine fully up to temperature.  I believe Bob Wilson also did his tests with the Prii up to temp.  Don't know about the others.

 

Thanks, Ken

I believe I can mount covers using Velcro in only in dark areas of grill and there is no reason not to have one or the other center covers on all the time. The grill is curved so corners need to be heald down so center mounting won't work. The goal I had for the covers was that they had to be funtional, inexpensive and easy to install without damaging the car. Any other solution would negatively impacted those goals. At $50 plus S&H and it would have short payback period. All test were done with no HVAC and the only varibles were outside temps and covers on or off. There maybe only difference of 2mpg at 35mph and 3mpg at 55mph. At slower speeds the covers allow engine to warmup quicker and stay warm which saves mpg.  On testing Prius outside temps are important, 10degree could make 2mpg diffence in the results. 

Edited January 1, 2013 by ptjones

[plus 3 golfer]

So, I assume that the covers are flat and must be bowed slightly to fit the curve of the grill when installing.  Have you considered 3M Dual Lock Tabs?  I believe the tabs have a higher tensile strength than Velcro and very good sheet strength.  I've used them to do frameless sunscreens and they work exceptionally well when stretching the fabric for a sag free fit.  The tabs come in two "engaged" thicknesses. It looks like you might be able to use a combination of the tabs stacked to get the covers at or just above the grills.

 

For installation, you would simply stack the tabs to the applicable height leaving the top and bottom backing in place on the tab.  Then clean the contact surfaces of the grill and cover with alcohol.  Peel off the bottom backing and stick tabs to the black part of the grill where applicable.  Once the stacks are in place, you peel off top backing of each stack and align the cover over the grill opening and lightly attach the cover to the stacks.  If alignment looks good, firmly press the cover into the stack of tabs to get a good seal of the adhesive.  For removal, you'll want enough space so that you can grab a corner of the cover near a tab and pull outwards until the lock tabs start to release. Then, it should be easy to remove the rest of the cover. 

 

Also, I was able to find the tabs a lot cheaper than at the link I posted above.  I probably have sufficient tabs (albeit clear) to attach 2 grills.  I just need to find a thin sheet of lexan or other plastic to give it a try.   

[ptjones]

 

 

So, I assume that the covers are flat and must be bowed slightly to fit the curve of the grill when installing.  Have you considered 3M Dual Lock Tabs?  I believe the tabs have a higher tensile strength than Velcro and very good sheet strength.  I've used them to do frameless sunscreens and they work exceptionally well when stretching the fabric for a sag free fit.  The tabs come in two "engaged" thicknesses. It looks like you might be able to use a combination of the tabs stacked to get the covers at or just above the grills.

 

For installation, you would simply stack the tabs to the applicable height leaving the top and bottom backing in place on the tab.  Then clean the contact surfaces of the grill and cover with alcohol.  Peel off the bottom backing and stick tabs to the black part of the grill where applicable.  Once the stacks are in place, you peel off top backing of each stack and align the cover over the grill opening and lightly attach the cover to the stacks.  If alignment looks good, firmly press the cover into the stack of tabs to get a good seal of the adhesive.  For removal, you'll want enough space so that you can grab a corner of the cover near a tab and pull outwards until the lock tabs start to release. Then, it should be easy to remove the rest of the cover. 

 

Also, I was able to find the tabs a lot cheaper than at the link I posted above.  I probably have sufficient tabs (albeit clear) to attach 2 grills.  I just need to find a thin sheet of lexan or other plastic to give it a try.   

I had heard about other possiblities but hadn't looked into yet. Thanks, being semi transparent they might not showup as much. I have a set of prototype plexiglas covers I could send you to try out if your interested.

 

Thanks

Paul

Edited January 1, 2013 by ptjones

[C-MaxJaxon]

EPA rejects Ford mileage request

http://www.behindthewheel.com.au/2013/01/15/epa-rejects-ford-mileage-request/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=epa-rejects-ford-mileage-request

 

"Two Ford models, the C-Max and Fusion hybrids fared the worst in testing and Ford has subsequently called on the EPA to rethink the way they test hybrids."

 

"But Chris Grundler, who heads the EPA’s Office of Transportation and Air Quality, says they won’t be changing their methods."