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Tuft testing a C-Max

aerodynamic aids

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69 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   frbill

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 01:21 PM

Impressive Frank, I look forward to hearing your results, Good Job! :victory:









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#22 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 02:04 PM

Well the high-speed results are in... and there is no joy to be found on the expressway side of my C-Max testing.

Attached File  MPG vs Temp Eway Base v PCM v VG 131122.jpg   16.39KB   3 downloads

 

The chart shows 3 data sets:

- Baseline is roughly Labor Day through Columbus Day

- TP_UG is a combination of the PCM Update plus tire pressures increased from 34-51 psi plus upper grill block

- VG is AirTab vortex generators mounted on the rear quarter panels.

 

The one caveat is the latter two data sets are taken over the last couple weeks - November - so there's very little overlap in temperature ranges. This data is for my expressway commute, taken in morning/evening pairs most days, mostly with ECO-cruise (didn't today). I did cull some data points from the baseline data as there could still have been some learning going on. That results in a non-zero correlation and a realistic curve fit, but...

 

Without the trend lines, this looks like one population of data with a strong temperature sensitivity. In contrast, my lower-speed commute showed real improvements from the PCM update (5%) and increased tire pressures (1-2%). One might argue there was a reduciton in temperature sensitivity, but one does so based on very little data.

 

Note that this data supports no conclusions regarding the efficacy of vortex generators. The PCM update has been widely praised for a positive result. Reduced rolling resistance from increased tire pressures can't go wrong. Given those changes show no affect, one cannot reach any conclusions regarding the slightly improved mileage seen in this data.

 

And I'm starting a new test tomorrow - snow tires. Temps are dropping, the lake effect snow machine will start up tomorrow night and we're going to Vermont for the Holiday!

 

This is one test that I don't expect to show an improvement...

 

Have fun,

Frank


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#23 OFFLINE   ScubaDadMiami

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 01:22 AM

Are you saying that you have had insufficient time to determine the answer, and that you will resume testing after the weather changes for the warmer?



#24 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 05:46 PM

No, but yes.

 

Yes, I plan to continue through the snow season into Spring. No guarantee I'll retain this configuration, but no reason not to...

 

No, the data are sufficient to reach some conclusions. The inability to detect a difference is a very common result in experiments. The conclusion is that low-speed testing for fuel consumption is a lot more sensitive to changes in C-Max configuration; PCM and tire pressures showed positive benefit driving 35-45 mph speed limit roads while no difference was seen driging expressways, 55-65mph.

 

HAve fun,

Frank



#25 OFFLINE   Recumpence

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 01:53 PM

Thanks for the information, Frank. I am always pleased with whatever data can be gleaned by ABA testing.

Matt

#26 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:26 AM

Well my highway testing continues to confound and amaze me!

 

This time, it's snow tires all around and aero wheel covers on the back. (Lost a front, but that's another post). All the prior data is still shown, but with open markers and dotted trend lines to make the new data more evident.

Attached File  MPG vs Temp Eway Base v PCM v VG v Snow 131206.jpg   16.12KB   0 downloads

 

Once again, no effect given the noise. The snow tire data falls right on top of the prior data, with the trendline nearly coinciding with the prior test! Time to get off the highway... of course, that will confound VGs with the snows, as time precluded testing VGs on back roads. In theory, rolling resistance is a greater hit at lower speeds as rolling time lengthens, so given parity at highway speeds, perhaps I'll see a difference...

 

Not complaining, mind you!!! Given what some others have reported for other brands of snow tires, this makes me very happy choosing X-Ice 3's.

 

Have fun,

Frank



#27 OFFLINE   Recumpence

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 10:22 PM

Frank,

 

Here is a picture I took of my car today. We had powder snow last night and, after driving for a while, I noticed a few aerodynamic details that were worth noting. The clearest one was this shot I took. You can see by the snow line the exact point of air detachment on the upper portion of the rear fender before the rear window.

 

I hope this information is useful to you Frank (and anyone else who is curious).

 

Matt

 

 

Attached Files


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#28 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 08:20 AM

In my trips in the C-Max bringing my parents to and from the airport, etc recently I noticed how hard it is to keep the back window clear on slushy roads. The spray from the tires seems to get sucked up onto the back window by the airflow. I find that I'm often washing the rear window to see out of it. The back up camera also becomes so dirty that it is worthless for backing up because you can't see anything with it.

 

I also have noticed that when driving in hybrid mode the exhaust gets sucked up by the air flow and I see all the white exhaust up high behind the back window. In our FFH I'll see a tiny amount of the white exhaust being lifted up beyond the level of the trunk at highway speeds but nothing like the turbulence behind the C-Max.

 

Have others noticed the same thing?



#29 OFFLINE   Recumpence

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 10:49 AM

Yup, I noticed the same thing/s.

 

I am building a diffuser soon as well as a Kammback. I am hopeful a cleaner tail end of the car will be a welcome side benefit.

 

Matt



#30 OFFLINE   Recumpence

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 02:33 PM

I figured I would chime in and let you guys know I have been doing much "Snow-rodynamic" testing since we have had so much powder snow lately and my snow paterns on my car definately agree with the tuft testing. The air flow is clean off the roof, yet it is very turbulent off the sides of the car and sides of the rear window. The air detaches right at the side edges of the rear window continuing down the side of the car to the rear portion of the rear wheelwell.

 

I plan on making my Kammback design based on these findings.

 

Matt


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#31 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 08:00 PM

I figured I would chime in and let you guys know I have been doing much "Snow-rodynamic" testing since we have had so much powder snow lately and my snow paterns on my car definately agree with the tuft testing. The air flow is clean off the roof, yet it is very turbulent off the sides of the car and sides of the rear window. The air detaches right at the side edges of the rear window continuing down the side of the car to the rear portion of the rear wheelwell.

 

I plan on making my Kammback design based on these findings.

 

Matt

I inadvertently got similar results when a piece of magnetic tape came off between the hatch and turn signal light and ended up on bumper instead of blowing away. :) 

 

Paul 



#32 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 08:12 AM

What causes the dust/snow/etc to all stick to the back of the car? The C-Max back hatch gets extremely dirty, so does the back hatch of my wife's Prius. The FFH isn't as bad, but the trunk area also gets extremely dirty. What part of the aerodynamics causes this? Is it the turbulence at the back?

 

Another FFH owner recently noticed this:

 

To give some balance to the weather on this forum, it's warm and dry here in SoCal.  We're in a dad-gummed drought while half of you are freezing to death.

I've owned this FFH for over a year and after spending 30 years in a big city fire department I learned to keep my tools clean, so I wash it a lot.

Looks better too.

 

The back of the car always seemed to have a lot of dust buildup from the aerodynamic shape of the car creating a small vacuum in the back of the car (I don't have the trunk spoiler).

I'd like to discuss the OEM quality splash guards and the difference they seem to make with the dust buildup on the back of the car.

A few months ago I purchased and installed the OEM Splash Guards, front and rear.  They really do work well keeping the wheel splash debris off the sides of the car.

I got used to the funky look real fast too, now I like it.

But the unusual after affect of installing them is the back of the car stays a lot cleaner from road dust buildup.

I wonder if the guards create a turbulence under and around the bottom of the car or wheels that disrupts the normal vacuum at the back.

 

I notice this because every time the trunk opens I used to put a dusty fingerprint on the paint, not so much now.

With the under-body streamlining I think the splash guards now work to defeat this rear dusting effect, it's a positive thing for me.

Thoughts?

http://fordfusionhyb...ather-and-dust/

 

How would the mudflaps be changing the air flow to result in less dirt adhering itself to the trunk lid? I might look at getting some if they'll help keep the trunk cleaner. Perhaps they'd also have that impact on the C-Max. I wish I had a better understanding of aerodynamics to know, but I'm glad that there are C-Max owners who do since I don't. Thanks!!



#33 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 09:51 AM

I'm working on it, but I haven't figured out which camcorder to buy. :)

 

Paul



#34 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:09 PM

From what I can gather, a dirty tailgate is the penalty for good aerodynamics. Let's review some of what we know.

- Bernouilli's law can be paraphrased to say that air pressure on a surface is inversely related to the speed of that air across the surface. Areas of high speed air flow will generate a vacuum.

- When dealing with tailgate, any vacuum resulting from the air flow will  be felt as drag.

- Dust particles borne on the wind will land and stay put only in areas of low air flow. Otherwise, they'd be knocked off.

 

The logical conclusion is that a car designed to minimize air flow-related drag on the back of the car will likely get very dirty.

 

Looking at the tuft test stills, you see a very sharp change in air flow at the edge of the rear window. Air flow on the C-pillar is attached, but that on the window is both low speed and only slightly turbulent, and it's at right-angles to the C-pillar flow - a clean break. The rear window air flow is consistent with weak trailing vortices coming off the C-pillar- the right air flow direction with not a lot of speed - so dirt builds up. 

 

I've got some pic to show these effects, but need a cable...

 

HAVe fun,

Frank


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#35 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 05:32 PM

From what I can gather, a dirty tailgate is the penalty for good aerodynamics. Let's review some of what we know.

- Bernouilli's law can be paraphrased to say that air pressure on a surface is inversely related to the speed of that air across the surface. Areas of high speed air flow will generate a vacuum.

- When dealing with tailgate, any vacuum resulting from the air flow will  be felt as drag.

- Dust particles borne on the wind will land and stay put only in areas of low air flow. Otherwise, they'd be knocked off.

 

The logical conclusion is that a car designed to minimize air flow-related drag on the back of the car will likely get very dirty.

 

Looking at the tuft test stills, you see a very sharp change in air flow at the edge of the rear window. Air flow on the C-pillar is attached, but that on the window is both low speed and only slightly turbulent, and it's at right-angles to the C-pillar flow - a clean break. The rear window air flow is consistent with weak trailing vortices coming off the C-pillar- the right air flow direction with not a lot of speed - so dirt builds up. 

 

I've got some pic to show these effects, but need a cable...

 

HAVe fun,

Frank

Frank - this makes sense. This explains why the Prius (a car designed to be very aerodynamic) is even worse than our FFH at having dirt adhere to the tail of the car. So basically, the FFH owner who added mudflaps changed the way the air flows around the wheels and the tail of the car and thus created more turbulence/drag?



#36 OFFLINE   C-MaxSea

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 06:05 PM

Speaking of tuft testing, laminar flow …………………….

 

Is this where we are heading, a redesigned rear quarter panel some day for the C-Max?

 

 

Before & After Priiiii;  & then there is the bug eyed Leaf 'solution':

Attached Files


Edited by C-MaxSea, 25 January 2014 - 01:46 AM.

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#37 OFFLINE   mtb9153

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 03:49 PM

I can see them going to the 3rd picture someday



#38 OFFLINE   mtb9153

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 04:52 PM

I'm working on it, but I haven't figured out which camcorder to buy. :)

 

Paul

Paul if I was going to buy another camera...which I'm not.  I'd get the Canon VIXIA HF G30 Full HD Camcorder from B&H Video & Photo in Brooklyn NY.  I think the Canon optics is superior to any one else, even Sony. I've always liked the lens much better on my 4 year old Canon XHA1 than my one month old Sony.  Carl Zeiss optics is just a name and not worth the $$$$.  I think you'd have to look REAL hard to find better prices and service from anywhere else but B&H.  The only thing which bugs me about B&H is they are a Jewish business and it always seems that when I want to order something they are closed for one of their many observances.  I'm not slamming the Jewish faith, just a beef I need to live with so no Hate mail everyone please.  I'm equal opportunity religious believer.  :camera: :thumbsup:


Edited by mtb9153, 25 January 2014 - 04:52 PM.

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#39 OFFLINE   mtb9153

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 04:58 PM

From what I can gather, a dirty tailgate is the penalty for good aerodynamics. Let's review some of what we know.

- Bernouilli's law can be paraphrased to say that air pressure on a surface is inversely related to the speed of that air across the surface. Areas of high speed air flow will generate a vacuum.

- When dealing with tailgate, any vacuum resulting from the air flow will  be felt as drag.

- Dust particles borne on the wind will land and stay put only in areas of low air flow. Otherwise, they'd be knocked off.

 

The logical conclusion is that a car designed to minimize air flow-related drag on the back of the car will likely get very dirty.

 

Looking at the tuft test stills, you see a very sharp change in air flow at the edge of the rear window. Air flow on the C-pillar is attached, but that on the window is both low speed and only slightly turbulent, and it's at right-angles to the C-pillar flow - a clean break. The rear window air flow is consistent with weak trailing vortices coming off the C-pillar- the right air flow direction with not a lot of speed - so dirt builds up. 

 

I've got some pic to show these effects, but need a cable...

 

HAVe fun,

Frank

Frank need a cable?  Go to Radio Shack, there must be one near you in NY.  For that matter go to B&H Superstore in Brooklyn if it is anywhere close to your town.  They are a city block long, massive store from what I've seen on their website.



#40 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 06:11 PM

Paul if I was going to buy another camera...which I'm not.  I'd get the Canon VIXIA HF G30 Full HD Camcorder from B&H Video & Photo in Brooklyn NY.  I think the Canon optics is superior to any one else, even Sony. I've always liked the lens much better on my 4 year old Canon XHA1 than my one month old Sony.  Carl Zeiss optics is just a name and not worth the $$$$.  I think you'd have to look REAL hard to find better prices and service from anywhere else but B&H.  The only thing which bugs me about B&H is they are a Jewish business and it always seems that when I want to order something they are closed for one of their many observances.  I'm not slamming the Jewish faith, just a beef I need to live with so no Hate mail everyone please.  I'm equal opportunity religious believer.  :camera: :thumbsup:

Like camcorder's spec. but i won't be able to justify it. I will probably stay in the $400 range. O well :)  Check your PM

 

Paul








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