hybridbear

That’s really helpful, but that info kinda looks like a gas C-Max from Europe...I looked under the hood at my parents’ C-Max & I think the engine in the diagram might be a 2.0L 4 cyl engine from a European gas C-Max. That was the challenge I had in searching that prompted me to come here, every result I found online was about gas C-Maxes from Europe.

Has anyone had fault code P0171 before? My parents' 2013 C-Max Energi just ran out of warranty 3 weeks ago. They had bought a 7 year Ford extended warranty for it. And now basically every time the engine comes on it throws this fault code. It would be nice to have some idea of what is failing versus having to spend a lot of money to have Ford diagnose & repair it. Thanks!

The changing color thermometer on the dash was removed in the software update that increased the max EV speed to 85 MPH. This software update also changed the operation of the ICE when the coolant is at colder temps which would have necessitated a change in the programming of the blue thermometer. My parents' C-Max Energi started showing the wrench icon recently. The wrench icon would only appear when they turned on the heat while driving in EV mode & used the electric coolant heater. I checked for codes with FORScan and didn't find anything really telling. They took their C-Max to the dealer & the dealer determined that the block heater was leaking. It was replaced under warranty and they have not had the wrench light since. I have not had the chance to see if they have confirmed that the new EBH works, though.

I highly doubt that you got 30 MPG in your Vibe in the winter under these exact same driving conditions. All the suggestions above are excellent. As has been often reported, hybrids are very sensitive to driving style, temperature & other factors for fuel economy. Since the ICE doesn't run all the time, any factors that make it run more (like cold weather, high heat settings, etc) will have a big impact on MPG compared to the effect of cold weather or using the heat in a car where the ICE runs all the time.

Correct, all braking activity. But, I don't think coasting without touching any pedal is counted.

From the Workshop Manual: Brake Modes Because much of the brake torque required to stop the vehicle can be achieved through regenerative braking, it is not always necessary for the conventional friction brakes to be applied. The brake pedal uses a pedal feel simulator that acts against a curved bracket to give the driver a simulated pedal resistance as the brake pedal is applied. The ABS module uses the driver input on the brake pedal, wheel speed sensor input and the lateral deceleration messages from the RCM to determine the amount of deceleration the driver is requesting and which brake mode is necessary. Regenerative Braking Mode The ABS module determines the amount of braking torque necessary and sends that info to the PCM along with the current threshold for ABS intervention. The PCM determines how much braking torque the electric motor can provide based on High Voltage Traction Battery (HVTB) state-of-charge and sends this information back to the ABS module. At the same time, the electric motor is switched to a generator which supplies the determined amount of braking torque. Based on the amount of braking torque the PCM can deliver, the ABS module determines whether it is necessary to apply the friction brakes or if the brake torque from the electric motor is sufficient to safely stop the vehicle. Friction Braking Mode Under some circumstances, the brake torque generated by the electric motor is insufficient to bring the vehicle to a safe, controlled stop and requires the assistance of the conventional friction brakes. Additionally, the state-of-charge in the High Voltage Traction Battery (HVTB) may not allow for regenerative braking to take place or the vehicle may be experiencing an ABS , stability control event. In these instances, the ABS module activates a mechanical relay which supplies power to a solid state relay that activates a vacuum pump. At the same time, the ABS module sends a PWM voltage to a solenoid mounted on the brake booster. The solenoid allows vacuum from the vacuum pump to enter the brake booster which moves the booster push rod and applies the conventional brakes. During certain braking events, the friction brakes can be applied directly by the driver. The brake booster push rod is equipped with an adjustable stop, once the brake pedal travels far enough to engage the stop, the brake booster push rod is forced into the master cylinder and the conventional friction brakes are applied. Supplemental Braking Assist In addition to preventing wheel lock up during braking events, the ABS module also provides supplemental hydraulic brake assist through the use of the hydraulic pump motor and the HCU . The ABS module continually monitors the vacuum in the brake booster through the use of a vacuum sensor. When the vacuum sensor indicates vacuum is below a predetermined level during a braking event or if the driver attempts to stop the vehicle with a low vacuum condition in the brake booster, the ABS module activates the hydraulic pump motor in the HCU to assist with vehicle braking. Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBD) On initial application of the brake pedal, full pressure is applied to the rear brakes. The ABS module then uses wheel speed sensor inputs to evaluate rear wheel slip. Once the rear wheel slip exceeds a predetermined threshold, the ABS module commands the HCU to close the appropriate isolation valves to hold the rear brake pressure constant while allowing the front brake pressure to build. This creates a balanced braking condition between the front and rear wheels. If the rear wheel slip continues and exceeds a second predetermined threshold, the ABS module commands the HCU to open the dump valves to decrease the rear brake pressure and allow the rear wheels to recover. A slight bump sensation may be felt in the brake pedal when EBD is active. If the ABS is disabled due to a DTC being present in the ABS module, EBD continues to function unless the DTC is for wheel speed sensors or the HCU . When EBD is disabled, the ABS warning indicator, the red brake warning indicator and sliding car icon illuminate. From another section about the IPC: Brake Coach Gauge The brake coach gauge is a virtual gauge that appears after the vehicle has come to a complete stop. It coaches the driver to brake in a manner which maximizes the amount of energy returned through the regenerative braking system. The percent displayed is an indication of the regenerative braking efficiency with 100% representing the maximum amount of energy recovery. The brake coach gauge can be enabled or disabled through the message center settings. The IPC uses 3 messaged inputs to display the brake coach gauge. The first is the regenerative braking status, the second is the request to display the braking event feedback and the third is the amount of energy recaptured. The IPC receives the regenerative braking active and brake event data messages from the GWM over the High Speed Controller Area Network 3 (HS3-CAN). The GWM receives the regenerative braking active and brake event data messages from the PCM over the High Speed Controller Area Network 1 (HS1-CAN). Energy Coach Message Center Display The IPC provides a message center display to provide energy coaching information to the driver related to the specific driving performance of vehicle acceleration, braking, and vehicle cruising speed. The display uses 2 unique color appearances to indicate good performance or of improvement potential. Blue indicates good and orange indicates areas for improvement. The IPC receives the energy coaching data from the GWM over the High Speed Controller Area Network 3 (HS3-CAN). The GWM receives the energy coaching data from the SOBDMC over the High Speed Controller Area Network 1 (HS1-CAN). Anytime you brake, the data is counted for the Trip Summary Brake Score. The Brake Score that appears on the dash is as described above, it's only for braking events where you come to a complete stop. You can do an experiment to understand. Turn your car on & accelerate. Now brake hard, but don't come to a complete stop. Now accelerate again & brake gently so that you get a 100% Brake Score showing when you stop. Now turn off your car & check out your Trip Summary Brake Score. It will not be 100%. I've had many trips where every time I come to a complete stop I see 100% Brake Score, but at the end of the trip my Trip Summary Brake Score is 99%. This means that somewhere I braked hard enough to engage the friction brakes early, but it wasn't a complete stop so I didn't see the percentage displayed. It's also been previously discussed that all 100% Brake Scores are not created equally. 100% just means you got the most energy possible based on how your braked. But, larryh has shown with his experiments that braking efficiency varies based on motor RPM (dependent on wheel speed) and motor power (how many kW are being generated). 100% just means you didn't engage the friction brakes any more than absolutely necessary. The car will also engage the friction brakes instead of regen if you're braking & turning at the same time. When you're turning & the wheel speed varies, the car needs to brake each wheel with different amounts of force. Since regen braking occurs at the axle, it can't put differing levels of torque on each wheel.

No, that's the problem. We have an Energi now & we only use the ICE on long trips. We've never started our Energi cold with a depleted HVB & it's been a couple years since we had the FFH now.

Issue # 1 Ford's definition of "electrified" includes 48V stop start systems. They have indicated that the majority of their 13 new EVs by 2020 will just be those vehicles. See this article. Issue #2 Ford is not improving the EV range of the 2017+ Energi powertrain. See this article.

This is for emissions purposes only & actually results in increased fuel consumption. Check out the Warm Up Stages thread for more info - http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/7408-ffh-warm-up-stages/

There is no pedestrian warning sound on the 2013. Does your Owner's Manual reference that this feature was added in later years? I had never heard about this being added.

What are the additional steps to import a car to the US? How do you go about changing out the speedometer?

Ford has made no improvements to the hybrid system since 2012 (when the MY2013 C-Max was released). Other automakers have greatly improved their hybrid efficiency. The Fusion is now one of the worst midsize hybrids in terms of MPG. The main area where Ford has dropped the ball is failing to increase the EV range of the Energi models. The Sonata PHEV & Volt now exceed it. Honda has promised that their next Accord PHEV will exceed it. Ford's plan for "electrified" vehicles largely is based on mild hybrid 48 V systems that offer minimal fuel economy improvements. They do not appear to have any plans to offer competitive BEVs or compelling PHEVs. This is very disappointing because I think the engineering & thoughtful design that went into certain features of the Focus Electric & the Fusion/C-Max Energi are way better than what Chevy offers with the Volt or Nissan with the Leaf. I just wish I could have the EV range of the Volt inside the Fusion body. Or a BEV Fusion with 125-150 miles EPA range. I am glad that you are getting your money back for your C-Max. I'm sorry you had such a difficult experience. Enjoy your Subaru that you purchased around the same time.

That sounds like he really got ripped off. :sad: :cry: The Taurus is older than the C-Max & has a ton more miles. The original price can't have been that much higher than his C-Max. Plus the Taurus will likely cost him more to insure & will probably cost him twice as much for gas.

We have a Fusion Energi which has the same powertrain & my parents have a C-Max Energi. I quite like the powertrain & the packaging of the C-Max. In 2013 it was one of the best available options. We almost bought a C-Max instead of a Fusion, but ultimately chose the Fusion because my wife says the C-Max looks like an old person car. However, it's now 2016 & Ford has done nothing to improve these cars. They just released the 2017 Fusion & admitted that they have not made improvements to the EV range. Thus they now lag behind their competitors & I no longer recommend them. Back in 2013-2014 I recommended these cars to everyone I could.

I'm glad you're finally pursuing a lemon law claim. Forget the C-Max and buy a PHEV like the Volt. It's a far better car.

This was my first thought as well. Did he ever try a different dealer? That would have been my first step when the dealer said "no problem found". My current dealer will pre-order parts for me & they don't even try to duplicate the problems. They just go off of my word & do the procedures described in the TSB or SSM that I bring them from online. Regarding your Energi, it sounds like you're experiencing a normal amount of capacity loss. How many Lifetime EV miles does your car show of your total odometer miles? How many times per day do you charge? Do you charge immediately or do you delay charging using a Value Charge profile?

It's a fantastic car. I wish Ford made a BEV Fusion. The Focus is just too small a car for our needs, so we'll be looking for something bigger when its lease ends in a few months. Sadly there are few BEV options that are larger.

I was hoping it would be possible to get enough oil just off the dipstick. But I guess not. We go years between oil changes in our Energi. I should've asked the dealer to save some oil when they did the first oil change last summer. I don't expect to do another oil change in it until 2017.

Is there any easy way to get a sample between oil changes? How much oil does Blackstone need?

That sounds about right for MPG at those speeds. The C-Max is much less aerodynamic than your 2010 FFH. You're right in line with the EPA highway estimate for your C-Max.

Did you only report ICE miles to them as your interval, not odometer miles? You might want to clarify that with them. They reference comparing your results to other Fords with this ICE, if they think you did a lot less odometer miles than you actually did, you may lead them to false conclusions.

The Energi also only appears to use outside air when charging, never while driving. Since this is the hybrid forum I didn't bother adding the Energi info. Thanks for sharing it for Energi owners that may read this thread.

Hybrid - ICE heat only Energi - ICE heat or electric heater, no heat pump The Ford hybrids will not automatically start the ICE like the Prius. Check out the warm up stages thread for more info. The battery is heated or cooled with fans that use cabin air. It isn't super effective. The HVB heats up the most by charging & discharging it by driving the car.

The Kia Soul EV & Mercedes B Class Electric Drive also have this feature. Doesn't the new Volt offer something like this too?

This is likely because you have the HVAC turned on. Turning on the heater will force the ICE to run more to provide cabin heat. When the HVAC system is requesting heat, the car keeps the coolant temp above 100 C. This is not easy to do in the winter since the ICE turns off so much. The higher you set the HVAC temp, the more the ICE must run. Grille blocking with foam pipe insulation helps. Leaving the HVAC on when shutting down the car may cause the ICE to start as soon as you turn on the car as well. Turning off the HVAC before turning off the car can help with that.