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Braking best techniques

Braking techniques fuel economy

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66 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 08:37 AM

I looked at my rotors too and they are the same. The manual says regen is disabled when ABS is working, but by the looks of the rotors the computer figures in regen braking into the 70% front brakes and the rear brakes do more braking than the fronts. Maybe the front brakes only work in ABS Mode.  IMO :)

 

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#42 OFFLINE   Plus 3 Golfer

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 09:57 AM

Here's what the manual says below.  Regenerative braking is always active during normal braking including when friction brakes are used except when the battery is full and the anti-lock braking feature is activated (working) - to me means when ABS is preventing wheel lockup or other adverse condition.  I think it's simply a matter of semantics.  I always refer to the braking control systems as ABS to distinguish ABS equipped cars from cars that don't have ABS not whether the feature is being activated.  Normal operation of modern braking systems can proportion braking to front wheels and rear wheels.

 

 When the accelerator pedal is released or the brake pedal is applied, the

brake controller automatically detects the amount of deceleration
requested and optimizes how much of the deceleration will be produced
by regenerative braking. The remaining portion is generated by standard
friction braking. When the battery is almost fully charged, the amount of
regenerative braking is limited to avoid overcharging, and the requested
deceleration is produced by standard friction braking alone.
Regenerative braking does not take the place of the standard friction
brakes; it only assists them. Regenerative braking has also been designed
to interact with the anti-lock brake system. Regenerative braking is
disabled when the anti-lock brake system is activated or the battery is
fully charged.

 

 
 


#43 OFFLINE   kostby

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 11:41 AM

@Zathrus

 

Lifetime Summary automatically displays after the ignition is turned off, but you have to be patient.

First the most recent trip statistics are shown.

Then, after a couple of moments, the lifetime stats appear for a few seconds, then the displays turn off.

 

Attached File  Screen Shot 2014-05-06 at 12.37.15 PM.png   173.19KB   5 downloads

 

Page 108 in the 2013 C-MAX Hybrid manual, 3rd printing

 

I have the SE, so I just turn off the key.

I'm not sure how it works in the pushbutton SEL.


Edited by kostby, 06 May 2014 - 11:44 AM.

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#44 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 12:54 PM

@Zathrus

 

Lifetime Summary automatically displays after the ignition is turned off, but you have to be patient.

First the most recent trip statistics are shown.

Then, after a couple of moments, the lifetime stats appear for a few seconds, then the displays turn off.

 

attachicon.gifScreen Shot 2014-05-06 at 12.37.15 PM.png

 

Page 108 in the 2013 C-MAX Hybrid manual, 3rd printing

 

I have the SE, so I just turn off the key.

I'm not sure how it works in the pushbutton SEL.

It works the same. :)

 

Paul



#45 OFFLINE   ScubaDadMiami

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 01:25 PM

I believe that I heard that there was a change where newer versions do not show the lifetime numbers. Maybe someone can verify this. My C-MAX does show this, but it is a year old.



#46 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 01:31 PM

I believe that I heard that there was a change where newer versions do not show the lifetime numbers. Maybe someone can verify this. My C-MAX does show this, but it is a year old.

I believe the 2014 don't show this and people are disappoint because of it. I would be. ;)

 

Paul



#47 OFFLINE   Zathrus

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 04:40 PM

@kostby...Thanks for info on Lifetime Summary. It appears ptjones and ScubaDadMiami are correct. I confirmed my later build (Aug 2013 SE) does not display Lifetime Summary (only Trip Summary). I now recall another thread awhile back indicating this feature was removed (not sure why). I guess I'll just keep using my Trip 2 Summary to keep track of lifetime stats.


Edited by Zathrus, 06 May 2014 - 04:43 PM.

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#48 OFFLINE   bemyax

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 01:36 PM

My 22 July 2013 SE does not have Lifetime Summary available, either. Thanks for the info on this.



#49 OFFLINE   salsaguy

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 03:15 AM

Yes this really sucks. I just downloaded the 2014 manual and did a search for the word  lifetime and came  up with nothing :(

They probably removed it as many didn't know how to reset it and early driving miles by the owner learning how to drive  Hybrid led to early poor mpg numbers and then people complaining about it getting less than advertised mpg and then  posting bad reviews on the net and suing Ford.

 

 

I believe the 2014 don't show this and people are disappoint because of it. I would be. ;)

 

Paul



#50 OFFLINE   MtnMarty

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 07:18 AM

What ever happened to Melinda?

#51 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 07:26 PM

Yes this really sucks. I just downloaded the 2014 manual and did a search for the word  lifetime and came  up with nothing :(

They probably removed it as many didn't know how to reset it and early driving miles by the owner learning how to drive  Hybrid led to early poor mpg numbers and then people complaining about it getting less than advertised mpg and then  posting bad reviews on the net and suing Ford.

Horrors!  So lifetime EV, Regen and Breaking Score are gone too?  :rant2: We love seeing that we've gone over 12,000 miles with the engine OFF!  Its our favorite way to "brag" on the car!



#52 OFFLINE   salsaguy

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 02:56 AM

Not sure what else is gone since I didn't read the entire manual just looked up that 1 page from the Ford downloads site.



#53 OFFLINE   jestevens

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 07:13 PM

Don't just tap the brakes - learn to look at the traffic flow ahead of your car - see if there are any red lights coming up, and what the other drivers in front of you are doing..if someone is making a turn back off the throttle slightly or if you will have to stop apply a slow steady pressure to the brakes in order to brake the car so that it slows down gently behind the car in front of you.  The longer you can brake (within reason), the more regen is going into the battery. 

 

This is of course subject to safety.  I also look in the rear view to see just how much hypermiling is going to frustrate the other drivers and try to adjust my driving style accordingly.  If I know that they are ALSO going to have to stop with me I take that into account and sometimes will gently slow down several MPH to try to meet the other cars' acceleration curve as they are pulling away at a stop light.

 

I usually get a very good brake score, unless I am caught off guard by a traffic light or a "merging" motorist.  It's the acceleration score I have a hard time with, I just love the extra torque and I hate the idea of a bunch of people sitting behind my car while I slowly throttle up to speed seems tedious.  I prefer briskly accelerating to crusing speed and then trying to "cruise" as much as possible around town.



#54 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 11:56 PM

I agree with "briskly accelerating" but that's a relative term.  Here's a suggestion for establishing an acceleration rate we can all compare to:

  1. Set cruise control to Eco mode
  2. Go to 55 mph and "set" the speed
  3. Slow to just above 20 mph (minimum speed for cruise to work)
  4. Tap Resume and keep foot off accelerator

The car will accelerate smoothly at about "2 bars" all the way back up.  Call this rate "Eco Acceleration" which I would call "moderate".  Some would call it "slow", others may call it "brisk" - suit yourself.  At least its a point we can all replicate for comparison purposes.

 

I feel that "Eco Acceleration" is a good rate for normal driving - one that shouldn't annoy any reasonable driver behind you.  It should still be quite efficient - it is "Eco" after all!  One variant though is to accelerate harder when you have a low SOC in order to keep the HVB from charging (up arrow) while accelerating.  I'll just "step on it" until the up arrow is gone - but no more.  The inverse process with a high SOC, however, is rather out of the question.  That is, slowing your acceleration to prevent discharge is not practical - the rate will be too slow.  So, my summary would be:

  • Accelerate with Eco Cruise if practical
  • Accelerate harder if necessary to prevent up arrow
  • Don't use EV for acceleration (as many have said before)
  • Don't accelerate past 3000 rpm (if watching the Tach) as that is likely beyond the peak efficiency point.

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#55 OFFLINE   scottwood2

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 07:27 AM

 

I agree with "briskly accelerating" but that's a relative term.  Here's a suggestion for establishing an acceleration rate we can all compare to:

  1. Set cruise control to Eco mode
  2. Go to 55 mph and "set" the speed
  3. Slow to just above 20 mph (minimum speed for cruise to work)
  4. Tap Resume and keep foot off accelerator

The car will accelerate smoothly at about "2 bars" all the way back up.  Call this rate "Eco Acceleration" which I would call "moderate".  Some would call it "slow", others may call it "brisk" - suit yourself.  At least its a point we can all replicate for comparison purposes.

 

I feel that "Eco Acceleration" is a good rate for normal driving - one that shouldn't annoy any reasonable driver behind you.  It should still be quite efficient - it is "Eco" after all!  One variant though is to accelerate harder when you have a low SOC in order to keep the HVB from charging (up arrow) while accelerating.  I'll just "step on it" until the up arrow is gone - but no more.  The inverse process with a high SOC, however, is rather out of the question.  That is, slowing your acceleration to prevent discharge is not practical - the rate will be too slow.  So, my summary would be:

  • Accelerate with Eco Cruise if practical
  • Accelerate harder if necessary to prevent up arrow
  • Don't use EV for acceleration (as many have said before)
  • Don't accelerate past 3000 rpm (if watching the Tach) as that is likely beyond the peak efficiency point.

 

I don't understand why you would want to keep the battery from being recharged while accelerating if the SOC is low?  That is when I try to accelerate slower if I can so I can charge and get up to speed at the same time. 



#56 OFFLINE   raadsel

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 08:55 AM

I don't understand why you would want to keep the battery from being recharged while accelerating if the SOC is low?  That is when I try to accelerate slower if I can so I can charge and get up to speed at the same time. 

 

Because you don't necessarily want the battery charged. Remember that charging the battery is using extra gasoline. The idea behind a hybrid is to recapture lost energy (regenerative braking) and, to a lesser degree, to run the ICE as efficiently as possible. So, for example, when running at a steady rate of speed on the highway, Ford knows what RPMs the engine runs most efficiently -- for example, bumping the engine speed from 2000 to 2200 RPMs might use little, to no, additional gas (this is merely a demonstration, I don't know the efficient points of the engine); so it it is more efficient to run the engine at 2200 RPM and use that slight increase in power to charge the battery.

 

By contrast, when you are accelerating, you are above the RPMs where the engine is its most efficient. Slowing down, so you can charge the battery, tends to make your acceleration even more inefficient; any charge you are adding to your battery is costing you MPG because of how hard the engine is working. Instead, the idea is that accelerating faster, so the battery does not charge, runs the engine harder for a shorter length of time and, while you are using more energy, short term, to get to speed, you are saving energy because the engine runs efficiently for longer. 

 

At least one argument made by hypermilers is: since all battery charge is created by use of gasoline, and you are losing some energy by converting the power to electricity and then charging your battery, you want to charge the battery as little as possible. It can be debated how true that is, but it is worth remembering that you want the best fuel efficiency, which isn't always the same as running in EV mode as much as possible.


Edited by raadsel, 28 April 2015 - 08:57 AM.

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#57 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 11:30 AM

To me it seems like the computer wants to accelerate at two bars which ends up in the range of 2k-3k rpm . For maximum mpg you need to have the minimum ICE (28% for me on best mpg's).

Paul
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#58 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 05:26 PM

I don't understand why you would want to keep the battery from being recharged while accelerating if the SOC is low?  That is when I try to accelerate slower if I can so I can charge and get up to speed at the same time. 

That comment is in the context of maximizing "fun" without sacrificing efficiency.  I'm not so much trying to avoid charging - just trying to accelerate using all available energy that's being generated at the ICE's peak efficiency point.  If I accelerate more slowly, the control algorithm will run the ICE on up to the peak efficiency point anyway, using the excess energy to charge the battery.  You can use all energy to accelerate quickly (and then charge at steady speed) or accelerate slowly while charging at the same time.  If the ICE is always at its peak efficiency point, you should burn the same amount of fuel either way.  Somewhere down the road you will have stored the same amount of kinetic and battery energy using the same amount of fuel.

 

But I got just a little more "fun per gallon"! 


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#59 OFFLINE   scottwood2

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 09:43 AM

Because you don't necessarily want the battery charged. Remember that charging the battery is using extra gasoline. The idea behind a hybrid is to recapture lost energy (regenerative braking) and, to a lesser degree, to run the ICE as efficiently as possible. So, for example, when running at a steady rate of speed on the highway, Ford knows what RPMs the engine runs most efficiently -- for example, bumping the engine speed from 2000 to 2200 RPMs might use little, to no, additional gas (this is merely a demonstration, I don't know the efficient points of the engine); so it it is more efficient to run the engine at 2200 RPM and use that slight increase in power to charge the battery.

 

By contrast, when you are accelerating, you are above the RPMs where the engine is its most efficient. Slowing down, so you can charge the battery, tends to make your acceleration even more inefficient; any charge you are adding to your battery is costing you MPG because of how hard the engine is working. Instead, the idea is that accelerating faster, so the battery does not charge, runs the engine harder for a shorter length of time and, while you are using more energy, short term, to get to speed, you are saving energy because the engine runs efficiently for longer. 

 

At least one argument made by hypermilers is: since all battery charge is created by use of gasoline, and you are losing some energy by converting the power to electricity and then charging your battery, you want to charge the battery as little as possible. It can be debated how true that is, but it is worth remembering that you want the best fuel efficiency, which isn't always the same as running in EV mode as much as possible.

 

 

That comment is in the context of maximizing "fun" without sacrificing efficiency.  I'm not so much trying to avoid charging - just trying to accelerate using all available energy that's being generated at the ICE's peak efficiency point.  If I accelerate more slowly, the control algorithm will run the ICE on up to the peak efficiency point anyway, using the excess energy to charge the battery.  You can use all energy to accelerate quickly (and then charge at steady speed) or accelerate slowly while charging at the same time.  If the ICE is always at its peak efficiency point, you should burn the same amount of fuel either way.  Somewhere down the road you will have stored the same amount of kinetic and battery energy using the same amount of fuel.

 

But I got just a little more "fun per gallon"! 

Interesting.  I will have to play around with that technique.  I guess it does make sense as there is always a loss when converting energy. 

 

I mainly try to use ICE to accelerate and charge the battery.  I use that to get above the speed limit and then go to elec mode just so it gives a little power .  The pulse and glide technique.  In the city I can get 50 to 60 or more MPG with this.  Now if I have a high SOC then I accelerate quickly to get to a point I can glide again. 

 

It will be fun to try this new technique to see how it compares for my driving style.  

 

Thx for the explanation of this technique.



#60 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 03:12 PM

 

To me it seems like the computer wants to accelerate at two bars which ends up in the range of 2k-3k rpm . ...

I got a ~15% improvement in mileage when I stopped doing that.

 

When I got the car, the conventional wisdom was to accelerate as fast as would keep the battery charging. Keep that ^ visible, which allowed full 2-bar acceleration if SOC was low.

 

Last year, I tried lower throttle settings, about 1.5-bar, so the car accelerated more slowly, and spent more time charging the battery (and warming coolant in winter). I soon realized that lower throttle settings increased the charge rate as well. I've since set My View up with a tachometer so I could watch RPM. Keeping it under 2,000 RPM most of the time has made a huge difference, as I can still accelerate and climb what pass for hills around here while charging the HVB - win-win-win.

 

You may have to open this is a new browser window to see it, but in the lower chart, "baseline" was using 2-bar, and the "Spring" and "Summer" were more like 1.5-bar acceleration (when prudent, of course)

MPG vs Temp 140731.jpg
 

Have fun,

Frank


Edited by fbov, 29 April 2015 - 03:12 PM.







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