NEW here and in the Market!

[tteman]

Hey Everyone!

 

Great forum, fun to read and super informative!

 

In the past few months, I have been in the market for a new or new for me vehicle.  The warranty on one of my cars is coming due in Feb and it needs to go as maintenance costs typically constitute a couple months of mortgage payments.

 

A little background:  Born in Chicago, grew up in Europe then South Florida...so my taste in cars lean towards hatchbacks!  Here is a sample of the vehicles I am interested in:

1. Buick Encore 13-15
2. Honda Crosstour 13-15
3. Toyota Prius Four 12-14
4. Honda CR-Z 13-14
5. Subaru XV Crosstek 12-14
6. Lexus CT200h 12-13
7. Honda CR-V 12-14
8. Ford C-Max 14-15

Nice list, huh?!?

• Encore: Nice, although narrow and I feel expensive for some of the shortcuts they took.
• Crosstour:  Love the look and how it drives, can get a great deal on a new one because no one likes them--I DO!
• Prius:  Always called it a "turd on wheels".  Actually not so bad, but sooo boring to drive
• CR-Z:  Really ike it, but too small and low to the ground
• Crosstek:  Love the functionality, the ride quality is a little jarring for my taste
• CT200h:  Tad more functional than the CR-Z, love the interior, tad better driver than the Prius 
• CR-V:  My mom and sister drive it (nothing wrong with that, just want something different)
• C-Max:  LOVE IT!! but concerned about reliability

So there you have it.  I am a car guy and never thought my list would look like this.  I know there are others out there, but I want something more than what you see everyday.  Currently the top runners are the C-Max and the CT200h--two totally different cars.

 

Biggest concern with the C-Max is reliability and longevity.  My criteria going in to this process was quality, reliability, MPG, and comfort!

 

Thanks for reading my diatribe!  Would love to hear your comments...

[plus 3 golfer]

IMO with respect to reliability, the bottom line is if you are one of the few C-Max owners that experience the "dead 12 V Battery, no start issue" than you'll consider the C-Max unreliable.  Otherwise, reliability appears not to be an issue with the C-Max.  Virtually all known "reliability" issues (there were many relating to the customer convenience stuff like MFT, radio, navigation which gave the C-Max some bad press) have been fixed with recalls or TSBs - some hardware replacement but mostly software fixes.

 

With respect to longevity most worry about the life of the Hybrid components.  The C-Max Hybrid components are covered for 10 years / 100 k miles.  I don't think there's enough data to access longevity to 150 k, 200 k or more miles.  The HVB will likely be the most expensive component to replace past warranty but based on Ford testing, I believe the HVB will last significantly longer than most will own their car and probably for the life of the car.  Then next most expensive hybrid part is likely the C-Max split system trans-axle.   It's very similar to the Prius trans-axle which seems to hold up just fine.

 

If you are truly worried about reliability or longevity, I'd suggest leasing vs buying. 

[shinytop]

If you buy a C-Max get an SEL.  Anecdotal evidence seems to indicate the SEL experiences few, if any, of the 12 V battery problems.  I bought mine at the end of May and have not had a single issue.

[tteman]

Thanks for the responses!!  Going to take my second test drive tomorrow and SEL is the trim that I would go for if I decide to go with the C-Max

[stevedebi]

Thanks for the responses!!  Going to take my second test drive tomorrow and SEL is the trim that I would go for if I decide to go with the C-Max

OK, I'll go there. Check out the C-Max Energi as well. With the rebates, it was actually cheaper than the C-Max for me.

[scottwood2]

I felt a lot like you when I was looking too. The quality was a major concern and like others the battery issue almost steered me away from this car.  For me two things helped me pull the trigger and buy a 2014 SE

 

• I wanted cloth seats so the SE was the only option.  A lot of the other options were not that big of a deal to me so the SE was fine and SE comes standard with many options already.  Yes there were a lot of SE owners with the battery problem but add the optional My Ford Touch display and the numbers quickly change to a very low number of people with this problem. Who knows what the percentage of owners opt for this option but between this low number of issues and the fact that the newer the car the less issues seem to happen was a plus in my book for getting new vs used.  
• Other problems listed on the site - this also made me think twice about this car but as I started looking at other forums I saw the same thing.  The Prius forum has all kinds of issues posted and the Chevy Volt had a bunch too.  Both of these cars have very good reliability ratings.  I looked at this as just something that happens for all cars and probably not much of a concern.  As others have said they have not had many issues with the car.  In my four months of ownership and >4k miles I have never been back to the dealer.  All systems go so far.  Now I do hear a noise when first getting into the car that sounds like a pump going bad but everything is working so far.  My previous car, a Scion xB was a great car but it was back to the dealer a number of time while under warranty.  So far I think the C-Max is ahead of the game when comparing to the Scion. 

The SEL is a great car and I am sure you will be happy with it if you get one.  People do love loaded up cars and I am sure these sell more.  I love driving mine.  There are three C-Max's at my work.  I have talked to one of the other owners and he loves his car too.

 

I hope this helps.

Edited December 12, 2014 by scottwood2

[tteman]

Good to hear about the reliability.  Every time I see one now, I want to speak to the owner to see their likes/dislikes.  

 

I didn't get a chance to drive the C-Max again, but planning on doing so this next week.  Going to try to test drive it back to back with the CT200h. 

 

I have a feeling that the size, seating position and overall comfort is going to be better in the C-Max.  This should be fun because I am not sure how many people have legitimately cross shopped the two.  

 

Any more likes/dislikes...

[fotomoto]

During the initial shopping phase before we purchased our 3rd CMax, when my casting net was veeeeery wide, the CT was on the list.   It never made the test drive phase due to high costs, lower FE than the prius, and no nearby dealership.  I couldn't see paying such a high premium for the same prius 1.8L drivetrain (which I had previously owned) yet get lower FE.  It's also a little more cramped than the Prius with poor rear views.  

 

The CMax is a hatch but more of a CUV style with a higher driving position.  It has a more powerful drivetrain and features you can't get on any of the Prius line:  rain sensing wipers, power liftgate, foot-activated liftgate, pano-roof, five door smart key, auto-park, etc; however, you can outfit the Lexus with most of these features but by then you're in the $40k range after taxes! 

 

The great news is with gas prices on a major down cycle NOW is the time to buy a hybrid!   :happy feet:

 

Good luck!   :rockon:

Edited December 14, 2014 by fotomoto

[plus 3 golfer]

I have

 

Good to hear about the reliability.  Every time I see one now, I want to speak to the owner to see their likes/dislikes.  

 

I didn't get a chance to drive the C-Max again, but planning on doing so this next week.  Going to try to test drive it back to back with the CT200h. 

 

I have a feeling that the size, seating position and overall comfort is going to be better in the C-Max.  This should be fun because I am not sure how many people have legitimately cross shopped the two.  

 

Any more likes/dislikes...

I have and it is still a Prius with an upscale look.  

 

IMO, it's hard to beat the comfort, ride, and performance of the C-Max.  Be prepared for poorer acceleration, a harsher, choppier ride, more noise, cramped interior space with the CT200H than the C-Max.  If you can live with those  "features" in the CT200H by all means take the CT200H for a test drive. ;)  :)  

[scottwood2]

I too like the CT200H.  I think it is a nice design car and one of the better looking hybrids out there.  It was just too low to the ground for me and too costly.  It did not make it to the test drive phase for me.  

[zalusky]

We test drove the CT.  Its way to tight inside.  My wife walked away as fast as she could.  I don't understand what market they were they thinking about.

[jimdel13]

I own a 2005 Prius and have 106000 miles.  I am aware that Prius Taxis in NYC have in excess of 200,000k mileage, so the engine batteries will likely last a long time.  The Prius battery pack now only costs about $2300 to replace.

[plus 3 golfer]

I own a 2005 Prius and have 106000 miles.  I am aware that Prius Taxis in NYC have in excess of 200,000k mileage, so the engine batteries will likely last a long time.  The Prius battery pack now only costs about $2300 to replace.

Irrelevant, different battery chemistry.

[fotomoto]

Irrelevant, different battery chemistry.

 

AFAIK, the Prius Plug In (PIP) is the only vehicle in the entire Toyota/Lexus hybrid line running LiOn chemistry.   Even the recently announced hydrogen fuel cell car will (supposedly) run the old metal hydride pack out of the Camry.

[jimdel13]

So the concern is that the LiOn will not last as long as the metal hydride?

[plus 3 golfer]

So the concern is that the LiOn will not last as long as the metal hydride?

This has been posted several times prior.  You be the judge. ;)

 

[mtb9153]

We test drove the CT.  Its way to tight inside.  My wife walked away as fast as she could.  I don't understand what market they were they thinking about.

not to get ethnic, but remember the Asian population are smaller people to begin with ;)

[tteman]

Well, I decided to test drive the Energi and really liked it.  You do not need to plug it in, but it is nice to have that option.  There are a good number of used ones around Chicago, but they tend to be fleet cars for the Ford reps.  Initially, I was told that typically they are traded in after about 7500 miles, but I have only seen 2014 with high mileage (17,000+ miles) and the dealers are not making them CPO.  Not enough warranty left on those!  Plus the trunk space suffers.  If I go the CMAX route, it will be the Hybrid.

 

I put together a scientific matrix between the CT200h and the CMAX (subjective...clearly!?):

1. Interior quality-  CT200h
2. Interior comfort- CMAX
3. Driveablity- CMAX
4. Gas mileage- CT200h
5. Reliability- CT200h
6. Initial Cost- CMAX

CMAX-  Love the greenspace, the comfortable seating position, the practicality and the driving dynamic of the CMAX.  The interior (besides the seats) feel cheap and plasticky.  There definitely seems to be some rattles and the road noise is louder.

 

CT200h-  The interior feels a lot more upscale, reliability for me is less of a concern, the CPO is a lot better with Lexus, and it is quieter.  I do feel a lot more claustrophobic, don't like how low to the ground it is and worried about long trip comfort.

 

Lexus sales are much more professional and courteous.  Ford sales seem to simply want to move inventory.

 

So there you are... my current status and working on making a final decision....

 

Thanks again for all the responses

[stevedebi]

Well, I decided to test drive the Energi and really liked it.  You do not need to plug it in, but it is nice to have that option.  There are a good number of used ones around Chicago, but they tend to be fleet cars for the Ford reps.  Initially, I was told that typically they are traded in after about 7500 miles, but I have only seen 2014 with high mileage (17,000+ miles) and the dealers are not making them CPO.  Not enough warranty left on those!  Plus the trunk space suffers.  If I go the CMAX route, it will be the Hybrid.

...

Yup, I didn't mention it because I figured you would know right away if it works - but the Energi has a lot less space back there.