valkraider

Yeah, have that set. It just unlocks - doesn't open it. So the trunk is still Manual just no button pushing needed. I still need to set down my stuff on the wet Portland ground. :) All said - the CMax was a fine vehicle. I would still basically recommend them (or the Fusion) but competition is ramping up.

I've had a terrible experience with Ford (no need to rehash it here, I've made enough posts about it). We were just basically waiting for our payoff to be well enough below book value to make it work. Otherwise it would have been gone last spring. We liked the CMax car OK - with the exception of garbage MFT crap - and there were only a few small things which were a little concerning but nothing really major or that would impact our opinion of the car. Some things about the new vs old (not counting for the whole brand new vs 4 year old comparison - I will compare new vs. new - at least as the CMax was when we took delivery 4 years ago) Note: Our CMax was fully loaded - literally every option available at the time was on the car. So is the Sonata. We paid exactly the same amount for both vehicles, although the Sonata has a bigger battery which nets us a larger tax credit. 1. The infotainment system in the Sonata is way better - but ford knows this so that's why they abandoned Microsoft Auto powered MFT - so this is really no longer as much of a concern unless you have an older Ford which can't be updated. 2. The Sonata has a much much better balance of physical knobs and buttons plus touch-screen. Too much in the Ford was dependent on the touch screen - buttons and knobs are better when driving. To be fair - the CMax was better than the first generation MFT vehicles which were all touch screen - but still the CMax could have used just a few more physical controls. 3. The Sonata handles better. Period. 4. The Sonata is much quieter in every way. Less highway noise, less wind noise, less engine noise (especially when under hard use - the CMax engine can howl when being driven hard). 5. The Sonata heater is *much* more efficient. We have not seen a noticible reduction in range when using the heater - whereas when using the CMax heater range dropped significantly (I stopped using the heater in EV on the CMax, I would just fire up the engine to heat the coil) 6. The Sonata has better range at highway speeds. Possibly due to better aerodynamics - the CMax wasn't the best at EV range over 55mph. The Sonata has exceeded its advertised range twice so far - at full freeway speeds (Oregon freeway speeds are slower than the rest of the country but still faster than 60mph) 7. The back seat of the Sonata is amazing compared to the CMax (and what led us to chose the Sonata over the Volt) - the Sonata back seat is really comfortable and has TONS of leg room. Even with the front seats all the way back there is more leg room in the Sonata back seat than the CMax. 8. The Sonata has a fully adjustable passenger seat. The limited adjustment of the CMax passenger seat was annoying (I was told the CMax passenger seat limits were due to airbag issues and they had to do that because they couldn't get the seat to work with the airbag design without limiting its movement range). 9. The Sonata has a couple things which should also help efficiency: heated steering wheel and ventilated front seats. The heated steering wheel (like heated seats) makes heater use much less urgent (cold steering wheels freeze my fingers). The ventilated seats help reduce AC usage. The Sonata also has some clever HVAC management software which probably influences #5 - they do smart things based on how you're driving, what the weather is like outside, and other factors. 10. There are some gizmos on the CMax which are missing on the Sonata - the Sonata does not have fully automatic rain sensing wipers. The Sonata does not have front parking sensors. The Sonata does not have "self parking" capability (although to be honest we never used that in the CMax except for a party trick to amaze guests). Sonata does not have a power trunk lid. Sonata does not have hill descent mode. 11. 2 main complaints about the Sonata - rear seat does not fold down or have a pass-through to the trunk; and lack of cool colors on the PHEV (they have lots of nice colors for the ICE Sonata - but only 4 plain boring ones in the PHEV). 12. Sonata has a lot of gizmos that we're not available on the CMax in 2012: Adaptive Cruise, Lane Departure, Blind spot detection, Collision avoidance, etc. 13. We haven't tried in snow yet - but in rain we can tell a difference - the CMax has a tendency to spin out in low traction situations - and the Sonata has not yet (driving in the same places on the same streets). I think the CMax center of gravity impacted this - trying to start on an uphill the weight would shift too far rearward and the front wheels break loose. 14. Differences in style - the CMax is really really tall - the Sonata is shorter and a little bit wider. Just differences in style really, not good or bad. 15. I have no comparison yet since the Sonata was new - but the "leather" in the CMax was seriously cracking on the driver's side seat where it gets squished every time you get in or out. Really shouldn't have been that bad for only 4 years old. 16. Hyundai provided a free software update to add Apple Car Play and Android Auto - and it was easy to download and install, and they even recommended to not use the dealerships because dealerships would charge you money. Complete opposite experience than what we had with Ford in this regard. 17. CMax has more and better cubbies all over the car, the Sonata is nicer (more luxurious) but seems to not have as many places to hide junk. 18. This is maybe more of a personal thing than helps others but: the CMax has a plastic seam where two different pieces join together, on the driver's side of the center stack, just behind the trim. I would often lean my right leg against it while on longer trips - and if I was wearing shorts that seam was kind of sharp and it would hurt and leave a mark after a little while. A nit pick for sure - but I never understood why the let that seam be so pointy and abrupt. It wouldn't have been hard to just make it a smoother transition. I may be the only person on the planet who cares though. 19. I miss the pulsating blue ring when charging the car. The Sonata has a single green light on the dash which is functional but not cool. 20. The Sonata LED tail lights and driving lights are way cooler than the CMax bulbs. Ford cheaped out on the CMax lights to save a couple bucks. I would have paid extra for optional LED lights had Ford offered them.

2016 Hyundai Sonata Limited Plug-In Hybrid

I traded in the CMax Energi, here are my final stats. 3 years 11 months of ownership. Lifetime: 68,409.9 miles total 39,265 EV miles 3659.3 Regen 56.0mpg 91% brake score

Have you ever been in a Tesla? It's not like a Mitsubishi iMiev. They have the highest customer satisfaction rating in the history of automobiles. 300,000 people want a Tesla mode 3. Not even 300,000 people know what an iMiev is... Anyway - it's beside the point. The point is Ford can't even update my radio with minor features without breaking the whole car while Tesla can deliver entirely new features over the air seamlessly for owners. Ford needs to figure this stuff out if they want to remain relevant in the future, and dealerships need to hire techs who understand computers. It's 2016. I shouldn't have to explain software version numbers to my service department.

My car is completely bricked. They have a new PCM on order. Looks to be at least another week in the shop. This is why Tesla has received over 300,000 reservations for the Model 3. People are fed up with the old way of doing things. During the 6 months I have been struggling to get a minor update to the radio in my Ford, Tesla has silently and painlessly issued several updates over the air which have added functionality to the vehicles themselves. And no dealers in the way. No matter what anyone thinks about EVs, 300,000 people paying $1000 each to reserve a vehicle they know almost nothing about is an amazing statement to the old guard auto industry. Shape up or ship out!

My car has been one of the ones which doesn't "see" the update via the website. So I took my car in to the dealership to get routine service and asked them to do the upgrade while it was there. They simply re-installed 3.7. When I picked up the car, I let them know that they re-installed the version of system that was already in there. They weren't sure what I meant. The dealership thought 3.7 was the latest version. I showed them the info about 3.8 and they scheduled another appointment for me (which in and of itself is a major hassle). I went back in and they tried again. Nope, reinstalled 3.7. So they tried a different way, nope - still 3.7. They called Ford and worked with Ford for an hour or so, and Ford sent them some detailed instructions of a "special" procedure that was designed to fix it. They were trying that "special" procedure, and my PCM died. Now my car is completely 100% bricked. A $38k paperweight. They can't get any communication working with the PCM at all. We'll see what happens.

I’m the OP. Since all of you dog piled on me, let me be absolutely clear. You are all not helping Ford’s case AT ALL. You are also the reason I pretty much abandoned coming to these forums. The only single thing I would like to see updated is for them to update software to add support for CAR-PLAY or ANDROID AUTO. Just software updates - no hardware required. To add insult to injury, there is a MFT SYNC update out now with a few new features - but for some reason it shows as not available for my car. No, I don't. Software is easy to update. I do it every day, for a system with tens of thousands of users making more than 5000 transactions daily for over 10 billion dollars a year. I've done so for 20+ years. My next vehicle is going to be a Tesla class vehicle - and currently Tesla is the front-runner for my $$$ for the CMax replacement. But I also buy other vehicles - so, for instance, the F150 is off the table for a new truck because I dislike how Ford treats owners. I am looking at an RV purchase - and all Ford models are off the table. And instead of keeping this car and letting my teen inherit it, we will instead sell it as soon as we are not upside down and buy something non-Ford for them. I probably did more research on this car before it was even on the market than anyone else in this damn forum. I even researched SYNC & MFT - but at the time Ford was still updating the software and had made great improvements, there was no research possible that would indicate they were planning on abandoning the platform. When did I _demand_ new hardware? Sure, new replacement hardware would be cool - but even just not abandoning the software would be a good start. My car was $38,000 - not $25k. I *did* buy it right when it came out, actually *before* it came out. Also, my >3 year old iPad runs the brand new iOS 9 just fine and gets a ton of the new features that come with it (not all, but most). iOS 9 is supported all the way back to the iPhone 4S which is 4 years old. OSX El Capitan which was just released is supported on Macs released back in 2007. >7 year old Macs can run the newest Mac OS. So ordering this car a month before it was even on the market is buying it at the end of its support cycle? A year or two? Its been 3 years now and the “new system” isn’t out yet… You’re 100% wrong. Forums are EXACTLY the place to do this. Thats what FORUMS are FOR! Did you somehow miss the fact that I have been a member on this forum since November 9 2012 and that I have over 600 posts? I have also been a member on the sister forum for the Energy model, I joined there on Nov 3 2012 and I have 589 posts over there. I’m also a member on several SYNC forums, and a couple basic Ford one’s as well. I am not trolling, and I have been way more involved with this car for way longer than most people here. My request for software updates (even ones which are *not* free) is entirely reasonable. I hope none of you work in customer service. It is super easy for all of you to just pile on and talk about how I am a whiny baby and whatever - but that doesn’t help Ford get any more business, and it doesn’t help me recommend Ford to any friends or family. I laid out my case and gave my experience and opinions, so that perhaps other buyers doing "due diligence" will have a good perspective of what they may or may not be in for. There were probably a good 10 more posts which I wanted to respond to but missed so whatever. Keep on truckin’!

Same problem.

But when motherboard designs changed, I could purchase a new motherboard and CPU and memory - but keep my hard disk, high end video card, case, power supply, monitor, keyboard, and all my software. Ford could at least provide a harness of some sort and a small software update to allow third party add-one to use the screen (and only the screen - keeping the main MFT software stack completely unchanged). The problem is not the technology. It's the statement from Ford saying "eff you - buy a new car".

I work in IT as well. I understand the obsolescence cycle. But this car is still being sold with this same hardware and software. It's not obsolete yet. It is a conscious decision on Ford's part to just flat out abandon it. Ford could *easily* add CarPlay (and the Android equivalent) to the current generation of MFT. The system already has a hard-wired USB input, and CarPlay requires almost zero processing by the car's system - it's all done on the phone and the car is simply a "remote display" of sorts. They wouldn't be able to support multi-touch but CarPlay has the basic tap menu support built in.

Yes. GM, Chrysler, and VWAG - plus Tesla as already noted. Next question? The real problem is that if you make an entertainment system like MFT which is incredibly tied into the basic vehicle systems - then you should make it modular and upgradable over time. Or - don't tightly integrate it with the vehicle operation and allow the owners to buy aftermarket upgrades. Ford chose to do neither. And why on earth would we not expect the software to get updated regularly? Why is that unreasonable? I get software updates which provide new features - on my computers, my phones and tablets, my video game systems... Heck - my TV and my Blu-Ray players are even getting updates. (All of those things are older than my car). My XBox 360 and my Wii still get new features added and they're a decade old and only cost a few hundred dollars. Our GameBoy 3DS just got a new update. My motorcycle communicator headsets have been updated annually for the past 4 years. My 3 year old Kindle got new features added just last week. I have an emergency satellite communicator which gets software updates. Even my home thermostat gets software updates and new features added regularly. Ford has completely abandoned software development on MFT and will not be improving it - instead they tell people just to buy a new car.

The problem is that I can't even rip it out and put in an aftermarket solution. Meanwhile Tesla just gave Roadster owners an upgrade path for their entire power train (for their 6 year old Roadsters!). http://ts.la/q9 I just want to install a radio.... You guys can harp on me all you want - but every car I have ever owned from any other manufacturer has always had upgrade paths for parts in the car. It's a $38k car - it's not a TV. You often replace components of cars without replacing the entire vehicle. But Ford has decided they won't even bother. Being under "warranty" for MFT system failure is not the same thing as giving me a purchase-able option to upgrade a unit. They very easily could make a new unit which simply replaces the CPU/Computer and screen of the MFT with the new unit. They just don't want to. I would pay $1500 for something like that. I can get a super nice Alpine deck with Apple CarPlay or Android Auto for about $600. It would be worth the extra $900 to have one integrated with the car. But Ford says they don't give a crap once they see you the car. Are you guys serious that the statement "screw you - buy a new car" isn't offensive to you? Meanwhile - I am paying off my motorcycle and truck+camper soon. That money is going right in to a not-Ford (Maybe Tesla will have the Model X out by then?) I never expect anything for free. I'm not expecting anyone to provide free new features. But I do expect them to provide options - other than an arrogant FU. Too bad - I so wanted this car to work out. I have to admit, the power train has been awesome - it's just dealing with Ford that has sucked.

Arrogance and crappy customer service. "The upgrade path is a new vehicle," said Don Butler, executive director of connected vehicles and services. Certainly, Mr. Butler, you are correct. A new vehicle not made by Ford! My highest trim level, fully loaded, top of the line $38k CMax which is as of today just a couple weeks shy of two years old - has zero options for upgrade path regarding the MFT crappy system. What is your response, Ford? Basically "tough luck dude, just go buy a new car!" Let me be perfectly clear. I am not wanting a *free* upgrade path, I don't want or expect gifts or perpetual new features. But my expensive new car is abandonware before the basic warranty expires... That's just lousy Ford. How about coming up with a program where we could *buy* a new Sync installation? My crappy MFT was a multi thousand dollar add on - make an upgrade available - you replace the screen and the computer unit for an upgrade price or something... I am sure QNX could control my heater and charging schedule just as easily as MicrosoftAuto did... I could easily appreciate an aftermarket system - Pioneer and Alpine make great units that support CarPlay - but I can't because of the vehicle controls built in to the crappy MyFord Touch. Environmental controls and EV settings are baked in to MFT so I am stuck with a Ford only solution - completely locked out of aftermarket options. So yeah Ford, my upgrade path new vehicle will not have a blue oval.

It depends on the vehicle and what it's equipped with. But MFT doesn't really do all that much... Our UConnect in our 2008 Dodge did more than our 2013 MFT and did so more reliably (albeit a little less flashily).

Ford to drop Microsoft and switch to Blackberry Of course only after I suffered through the miserable Microsoft Auto version... For what it is worth - QNX in our VWAG vehicles works *flawlessly*.

I put clear bra under the posts.

Touchscreens fail when you can't look at them or if you need to use them with gloves on or when there are bumpy roads.

It's nice to be able to look up and check that we remembered to close the box. ;)

I have over 7000 miles with these. Including all kinds of weather, all kinds of gear, highway speeds up to 90mph, elevations ranging from below sea level to over 10,000 feet and temperatures from -5°f to 80°f... The only complaint so far is the hit in fuel economy the box causes... ;)

It only took a year to get someone from Ford paying attention here... I wish Rebecca had been around last year - maybe I wouldn't hate Ford and they could have saved a future customer had one single thing gone better last year... As it is MFT and my dealership experience has left a super bad taste in my mouth about Ford... It's all well documented in these forums...

Ford admits touchscreen defeat, puts the buttons and knobs back into Ford SYNC

We have that many in our neighborhood. ;)

7500 seems so long ago. ;) I constantly have to "re-configure" for text messages. It's like MFT just forgets every so often...