stratosurfer

Yes, Snowstorm has schooled me on these complexities and I am following that procedure he outlines before moving forward.

Here is the article I mentioned: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1120320_lithium-ion-vs-nickel-metal-hydride-toyota-still-likes-both-for-its-hybrids

There is an article I hit on a Google Search, If I can find it I'll put the link up. In it the Toyota Engineer over HVB's states that the NiMh batts are actually better performers in cold climates and one of the reasons they went NiMh for the Rav-4 Hybrid all they only come in AWD and the AWD system is non mechanical. This doesn't help me down here in the south...

All, Sourcing a donor transmission now for my C-Max, I am wary of head-on collision donor vehicles as well as front end side impacts T-Boning the front wheels. You find quite a few of these type. I would think a square rear-end collision would make for the best donor for a FWD vehicle to salvage the transmission. I found a serious rear-ender, salvage yard wants a premium price ($1,599) but the front end looks pristine. Thoughts appreciated.

On the 2013/2014 it seems to be not a matter of if, but when. I think Snowstorm got 172K or so on his so that somewhat mitigates the failures that have happened (often under 50K miles: but under warranty). I'm at 123K with whining getting louder on REGEN and EV modes, trying to source a salvage tranny now.

I think most of us are happy with this Ford Hybrid Vehicle EXCEPT for this rather serious transmission longevity issue. I think I will just drop a quart of molyslip in my ecvt and see if that slows the condition from proceeding much faster. Yes Ford should do a recall, but i suppose, at this point, they may not even have a good solution? I know I will be interested in what you find when you tear it down. BTW, what year model salvage HF-35 was it again? THX MBM

All, With ECVT going out and weighing options, I have been researching these long drain intervals that Ford puts on their transmissions of all stripes, not just our HF-35 ECVTS. As we know, there are known issues with the 2013-2014 Fusion/C-Max Hybrid and PHEV HF-35's. When I source a replacement HF-35 I am considering Amsoil Full Synthetic instead of the Ford Mercon LV and putting a quart of Molyslip in place of one quart. My question to the group, from my review of the HF-35 I don't see anything resembling a clutch, or any other mechanical device requiring friction to operate. But for the electric motors this transmission looks more like a differential mechanically. With these transmissions failing I can see majorly shortening the drain intervals, but furthermore, would it not be sensible to consider a more gear lube-oriented product than Mercon LV? I understand that the motor windings have a ceramic coating that I suppose Mercon LV has been tested to not degrade, but I think, again in light of the short lives of these transmissions (do we truly know that problem is definitively fixed?) I would think a lighter weight gear oil (80w?) would be more appropriate for this purely mechanical hybrid drive, maybe with some molyslip added in. We do know that transmissions are failing routinely from the early models, and Ford will not recall. The 150K drain interval seems dubious in light of this. The Mercon LV seems to be used purely due to the Low Viscosity to gain mpgs, which is great until you replace a transmission and all the gains are lost. In summary: I have a failing HF-35 in light for a salvage unit, still driving but quite loud on Regen and EV modes, should I try some differential synthetic in the unit? With Molyslip? I've seen a number of videos of mechanics discussing these extended drains recommended by Ford on most all of their transmission, that the 150K sounds great, until to replace a tranny out of warranty... Thoughts appreciated.

Obviously I won’t be installing a Catch-Can on this vehicle.

Plus 3 Golfer thanks for sharing this info, I was reading that Ford on later C-Max’s has converted to the dual fuel injection system of port injection as well as GDI. I didn’t know Ford installed an Air Oil Separator on the PCV circuit to the intake. That was quite good thinking of the Ford Team as most GDI vehicles until around 2016 don’t have air-oil separators installed, and they are having serious problems with coked up intake valves. Glad I posted this here, and thanks so much for sharing that info.

All, In my research for my next vehicle (decided 2019 Toyota RAV-4 Hybrid) I discovered that the GDI ONLY system on the early C-Max’s are most likely prone to carbon-caking of the intake valve due to the PCV dumping water/oil residue back into the intake manifold. Not just early C-Max’s but all vehicles that have the GDI ONLY fuel injection. The new vehicles, including later model C-Max’s have a dual fuel injection system of Port Injection and GDI, and the port injector sprays on the intake valve at times to keep it clean. Has anyone installed a catch-can? If so can you recommend a brand? Thanks, below is a vid from Scotty Kilmer describing the problem. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap1AH-9UNjU

I was reading a number of things Toyota seems to have the lead on, and the ICE engine itself they are claiming 41% thermal efficiency vs the standard 25 to 30%. The name some of the changes they use to accomplish this, but notable are the 13 to 1 compression ratio and the fact it still runs 87 octane. They say they run the engine much hotter to get better combustion. I seems like quite a few updates on top of a new chassis and sheet metal. The rear axle is AWD via a motor generator, no mechanical connection. The towing capability has sealed the deal for me. I went to the dealership and physically measured my C-Max and the RAV-4 and they are -very- close in dimensions. I think the extra 500 lbs is due to AWD, the extra axle and motor/generator and the fact that the RAV-4 hybrid does not use a LI-ION HVB pack, but NiMh instead. There are some very good articles on why Toyota chose to use NiMh instead of LiOn HVB pack. The Toyota engineer discussing it said that the hybrid drive is set up to use either type (LiON or NiMh) from the factory, and that they can go back and forth based upon pricing and availability. So theoretically the RAV-4 pack in the future should it fail, could be replaced by a LiOn pack or cell replacement. As well later releases within the same year can be shipped with either pack.

All, After the ecvt decline plus the C-Max's lack of rated towing capability I have settled on a new 2019 Toyota RAV4 as my next purchase. I'm passing the C-Max (after eCVT replacement) to my daughter at college. The specs on the new RAV-4 are fairly impressive and it is rated to tow 1,750 lbs. It is a Full 2 motor-generator Hybrid with planetary gear drivetrain. It is very close in physical specs to a C-Max, width the same, the R-4 is about 5 inches longer and weighs 500 lbs more, apparently the battery is considerably bigger, as well it has a 2.5 liter engine. There not cheap, I'm quoted about $38,000 OTD with LXE trim (one level down from the top trim, but has a sunroof, premium sound ect, as well as leather interior. All the Rav4 Hybrids are AWD, no option for FWD. MPG seems just slightly below that of the C-Max, but not much. The reviews are it has terrific power and acceleration, something I have loved about the C-Max. I have been struggling with what to get, this seems perfect for my misison of towing up to 2,000lbs of waverunners, and routinely towing 1,000lbs of waverunners of very long tow trips. Mark

All, I am in a similar situation as SnowStorm except my 2013’s tranny is still quite functional. It has ‘stuttered’ at the same intersection where I make a turn right in the past couple of days... so not getting better. I’m having a hard time finding a dealer to do the swap, my local dealer here in San Angelo said no, they would only do a new transmission, $7,000 trans and labor. I have a business in the Houston Galveston area where I work a week each month, and I found the dealer there will do a salvage trans swapout. My problem I sent them an ad on eBay for the trans I wanted to get, they searched out compatibility and it came back as being from a C-Max Plug in Hybrid and therefore not compatible. The service desk writer I’m dealing with happens to be an old acquaintance of my family, yet she made it clear she spent a lot of time on this and would source me a salvage tranny and mark it up (again) and then install it: so not helpful... Funny thing is on the trans on eBay I sent to the link to the auction, the vendor sent me a picture of the donor vehicle with VIN, the PICTURE is not a Plug In C-Max... I ran the VIN on the gov website and it was classified as a FHEV (Full Hybrid Electrical Vehicle). So all of that to say I am asking if anyone has any other source of matching transmissions of later model C-Max Hybrids to my 2013? I would like to have a good idea that the numbers will match on the next time I send one to the service writer at the dealer, to save from her telling me the only option is for them to source the tranny. Any help appreciated. As an aside, I have found a number of transmission shops that will do the swap, yet I worry about their work on High Voltage systems. Thanks

Thanks for the share on Molyslip, I surfed there site, I wonder if the manual gearbox lube would be more appropriate for an HF-35 tranny as there are no clutches? Thanks

Thanks all for the input. I was investigating maybe a 1/2 pint or so of 75w90 synthetic gear oil. I don't believe that could possibly eat off the enamel of the motor windings. Just reviewing 'experimental' options while I try and source a transmission.

All, I have been monkeying with vehicles for 35 years now. I have posted elsewhere that now at 122K miles my ecvt is getting louder on REGEN and on EV mode. Fluid dropped and looked very good. Transmission functions as normal. Any thoughts on dropping in the tranny a 'friction modifier' like Lucus Oil or similar, maybe only a pint or less, to see if it quiets down some? Just asking hopefully for some experienced one on this topic. Thanks

122K miles. 42 MPG city 34 HWY (80 MPH) 37.8 Lifetime. Replaced FL wheel bearing, on 2nd set of Michelins. Tranny getting noisier on Regen and EV mod.

I used that vid above with the brown c-max this weekend and found it -very- difficult to find the fill plug. The drain is super easy. I would say this, it is on the backside of the transmission, and at an up-angle -facing- the firewall, close to the cat. I also found it -very- challenging to break it free. I cut a small piece of 1/2” pvc pipe I had to put on the Allen wrench as a small cheater-bar.

Oh yes, thanks for the reminder. I had already read it... But slept since I suppose, very good data and just what I need.My big question, and I may start another thread to cover this, but it seems as if Toyota’s hybrid drives seem to run for quite a long time. In covering their blog sites when looking for towing info, they don’t talk much about the hybrid drives (ecvts) going out. The C-Max and Fusion do have more power, but certainly Ford prepped the HF35 for that. Just thinking out loud in light of my situation...

SnowStorm, What route did you take on R&R the transmission, Dealer and New? I agree with your diagnosis, I may have many many more miles. At least a year. My ATF was very clear red tint. My thoughts are a salvage HF35 from a newer model C-Max or Fusion and have the dealer do the swap. Salvage on Ebay’s are $1,500 including freight. Dealer New with labor is $7,000... I have so loved most everything about this car, I just can hardly stomach $7,000 for tranny and labor for a car that is barely worth that amount down here in Texas. Thanks for the input, let me know how you went and how it’s acting after the replacement tranny.

As an update, the howl is the same howl that this car had when new when on hard regenerative braking, except much more pronounced. I only get the ‘whirring’ on EV mode and Regen. Maybe this bearing is just wearing in? As I mentioned, the ATF looked pristine, and IDK if the drain plug is magnetic but it had nothing on it. Maybe I have some time, car functions fine in all driving parameters.

Thanks. I am still monitoring. I just changed ATF, looked great. My sounds only happen on Regen and Electric power at about 30 to 40 mph.

Thanks, maybe I just have the dealer do the install, I was going to an independent transmission shop I’ve had great experience with. How has your donor ecvt worked out? Thanks

I am getting a whine out of the tranny, mostly in EV mode that seems to be getting louder. I am at 122,000 miles. I spoke to dealer, if I replace tranny at some point, it is $7,000. I found this used tranny, but the vendor says it won’t fit: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F312556789027 It is from a 2017 which I thought would fit and work in my 2013? I don’t know that I will even need a tranny, just weighing options. Funny, this vehicle has basically zero value ($1,500 offered on a trade in). It has been one of the best cars I’ve ever owned, but have to face the problem of this tranny possibly going out. Any help or pointers to tell me if I can put in a later model HF35 into my 2013 SEL Hybrid is appreciated. Thanks

All, I had Batteries Plus also test the 12V battery via the terminals in the engine compartment. It tested as REPLACE, I ordered an Oddyssey 67 R and replaced it. However this did not fix my problem. I took back to dealer and they reset the system and I still have the Power Liftgate sticking partway up and or down. The only further troubleshooting I’ve performed was at the recommendation of my mechanic friend asking me if it was better or worse when colder weather. Interestingly, the weather warmed up considerably and it would run, motor staggering nonetheless, all the way up and down. Cold front and now it’s massively stopping. With this data, and hopefully I mentioned that the dealer found no codes thrown which they claim should happen if the power liftgate strut is failing, I am going to replace the left (powered) strut. Can anyone provide a part number? I can’t find anything online. I find many for Explorers and Edges but nothing for a powered liftgate strut for a 2013 C-Max SEL. I do recommend an AGM battery for the 12V battery, there are a number of articles discussing 12V flooded lead acid batteries like the hard hits when cranking an engine to keep them from sulfating over time, whereas our C-Maxs start on the traction battery. Also it is a little of a pain to dig out and replace. With the Oddyssey I don’t think I will ever replace the 12v battery again. Hopefully.