stratosurfer

All,

My 2013 C-Max Hybrid has 115,000 miles and within the last four months the rear lift gate started acting erratic. On a push from the console it will go up a little bit and then go back down and not lock. Then a second push will sometimes send it back down for a lock, or partway back up. And once it starts traveling up after possibly multiple stalls, it will finally make it all the way up. It does this on the console button, and on the fob as well. Sometimes it goes, struggling, all the way up the first time. It seems to go from the all the way up position to closed most every time (80?%). I took it to Ford last week for a diagnostic and they told me they could not replicate the problem. I was -disappointed-... and asked them to try some more, they did and ultimately did not find -any- codes being thrown, and they mentioned if it were the electric liftgate strut going it throws a code. So after all this and 3 days of review, they said the only conclusion they can come to is that my 12V battery needs replacing, yet they didn’t seem super confident in this diagnosis. So much so they did not charge me the normal 1 hr diagnostic fee. They said the aux battery is the original one and now well over 5 years old. As well after the car is turned off, the electronics quickly shut off with that message ‘Turning off to save battery/setting’ or something as such. The theory they floated it that the aux battery holds the positional settings of where the liftgate is positioned. I have had the Liftgate alarm, that it is ajar come on while driving down the freeway and for no good reason (no cargo back there).

Can anyone comment on having a similar problem? I don’t mind replacing the battery, it is a little of a pain, and I was going to go ahead and put in an Oddysey as I have super experiences with them, but I don’t want to put in a premium battery if this is not my problem.

Any help or comments appreciated. I’m certain the dealer is giving me their ‘Best Guess’ diagnosis based upon no codes.

Thanks in Advance for the help.

I also agree with Plus 3 Golfer, WT will not be the problem, with having my trans fail I would be very reluctant to adding more stress to the trans. IMO :)

 

Paul 

Did you get any report on specifically why and which parts of the HF35 failed? When I ran searches, I found that 38,000 C-Max hybrids were sold in 2013 alone in the US, there are only 4 total -complaints- on the 2103 C-Max's transmission on carcomplaints.com, I know this is not all the complaints/issues but it a starting point.

 

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Ford/C-Max_Hybrid/2013/

The AC-DC inverter (not DC-DC) is liquid cooled.  The HV DC - 12V DC converter is under the rear hatch floor and is air cooled.

 

I've monitored ECT, TFT, and MG1 and MG2 coil temperatures under high load conditions (80+ mph, up and down steep grades) at 100F+ ambient with AC on and around 500 pounds of  cabin load.  I never came close to any temperatures that would trigger an alarm, DTC, or emergency operating conditions to protect engine / transmission from damage.  I've also run with grille covers on the middle and lower grilles at similar conditions except at max. ambient of about 40F with no issues.  Adding 1000 pound tow would certainly increase load and temps absent the tow.  But, if one drives "conservatively", I doubt overtemperature will be an issue.

This is the data I am looking for, and yes I will drive -very- conservatively. Probably between 65 and 70 max on freeways. Looking at the design and build of the HF35, I believe if I do drive very carefully, and with the trailer with brakes, I can't imagine this would stress anything on the car or be unsafe.

My guess is that the lake is a long way from your house?  'cause otherwise I would use the big truck to tow and have peace of mind...and I did have the exact problem that instructor states in the video, Toyota service thought they were doing me a favor flushing the transmission on my Prius with good standard less expensive transmission fluid instead of the WS ATF that was spec'd to help cool the windings rather than degrade the insulation on them.

 

I think the HF35 has a mechanical oil pump, In the hybrid it operates whenever the engine is on, in the Energi it is electrically driven since you can go longer without using engine.  For a while people thought maybe that was an issue, that people going extended range with the hybrid on battery might cause more stress on the transmission. 

 

If you are towing I'm pretty sure the engine will be on, so the transmission will get cooling but I don't know if it's sufficient or not, your engineer friend apparently thinks so.

 

From what I understand the liquid coolant loops are for the engine and the HV charging electronics, the DC to DC inverter, etc. gets pretty hot.

Complex situation... I live in San Angelo Texas and work one week per month in Friendswood Texas, 420 miles away. I have 2 Waverunners and have determined to tow one down to the coast (Friendswood area) where I will do some group river, bay and Gulf rides with a great group of folks in the Houston area in conjunction with my trips down there. I will tow one of my two down there and leave it there in storage. I could drive the 3/4 Suburban Diesel just to tow 1 ski and leave it, or tow it down there with the C-Max and leave it there and have the C-Max to drive around all week in Houston area traffic. The Suburban is 20 years old and I was hoping to not have to drive it to work and around in Houston area traffic. I will have the 1,200 lb Waverunner and trailer left down there so the tows thereafter will only be local, maybe 50 miles max flat-earth tows to the meeting place to launch our ski's. This is my quandary of working to ensure this C-Max hybrid will handle this situation without damage to drive train. As mentioned I will have a custom trailer built with surge brakes to avoid the controller install which appears challenging. 

I tried doing a google search for towing on the site figuring that someone might have tried it in the past, here are some results:

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/2399-suitability-for-occasional-towing/

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/6561-towing-with-a-c-max/

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/forum/19-cargo-hauling-roof-racks-towing/

 

Thanks for the links, they were very helpful.

I will be towing a 1,200 lb trailer soon, I'll report my results. I am convinced from my research the C-Max Hybrid is well up to to the task.

I spoke to my friend who is an engineer at Ford for 35 years on this topic, he told me concerning the fact that the C-Max has no tow rating my be due to 'Ford might prefer you to consider your towing with a more profitable vehicle.' From my study of the HF35 transmission and it's roots in the 2nd Gen Prius Hybrid Drive, I feel it would be very safe to tow around 1,000 lbs, possibly up to 1,500 lbs if you install brakes on the trailer with a C-Max Hybrid. The HF35 is breakthrough technology and it will be the basis for most every Hybrid Ford (to include the F150) in the future. And beyond I could even foresee that this Hybrid Drive will be the future of transmissions in general.

I'll be towing about 1,200lbs on a trailer with brakes shortly, I will report my results.

The interesting is it is called an ECVT but it really has zero in common with a true CVT with spindles and a belt. There's no belt or chain at all on the HF 35. The HF 35 is a much stronger, bigger version of the borrowed concept of the 2nd GEN Prius hybrid drive. It can get hot, but not like a normal auto box can, no real clutches, no torque converter. The actual GM1 and GM2 can get hot but the HF35 has water cooling for this. I just want to find out if someone else is towing any weight around 1,000 lbs or so. I have a 3/4 Diesel Suburban (actually a 1 ton) and have towed 12,000 lbs with it, I understand the dangers of towing and as I mentioned I will get a custom trailer with brakes on it.

The HF 35, on data I could find and in the C-Max alone in the US has only 4 complained online about failures against 38,000 C-Max's sold in 2013 alone. So failures seem to be anomalies at this point and hopefully happened early enough to be covered under warranty. The HF 35 is based upon the design of the Toyota 2nd Gen hybrid drive, Ford acquired the rights to 'copy' the design in a patent sharing agreement with Toyota. 

All,

From all of my research, and it is extensive, I believe a C-Max hybrid should easily be able to tow a relatively light trailer. I have studied the HF 35 Ecvt and spoken to a friend who is an engineer at Ford for over 30 years now and I don't see any reason why the Cmax can't tow a light trailer safely and without over-stressing the Ecvt.

Is anyone towing any decent trailers?

Success?

I understand that the manual says 'Not Recommended' if that is your only comment, then save it, it is already noted. My friend Ford's response to the 'Not Recommended' comment in the manual is simply, 'Possibly Ford would like to steer you to a more profitable vehicle?'....

The HF 35 trans is modeled after the Toyota Prius Hybrid drive system, and is even stronger than the Prius Hybrid drive (more HP engine and battery). If you browse the Prius forums you will find people routinely towing trailers over 1,000 lbs, one guy tows a 1,900 lb travel trailer with no problems. Ford is bringing an F150 Hybrid and Escape either in 2019 or 2020, both will be rated to tow and certainly will use the HF35 model.

I have an 1,100 lb Waverunner I would like to tow and believe I can do so safely. I plan on putting brakes on the custom trailer.

Trying to see what other people are towing and the results.

Thanks

 

2013 Ford C-Max Hybrid 102K miles

 

This thread is quite informative. I believe I will install the upper control arm to make my rear camber adjustable as Snowstorm did. I did find this kit which is half the price: https://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Ford/C-Max/Replacement/Lateral_Link/2013/KIT1-021016-02-A.html?apwcid=gglpla&gclid=Cj0KCQiA0vnQBRDmARIsAEL0M1mgXEqN5eZWM3eKMzYnel0M2474VZejfZg-TRUBDIFJo9lCcPoN4mIaAojlEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

I don't know if this is not as strong as the kit Snowstorm used, and I like the idea of only replacing the upper link.

The tire howling is starting to drive me a little nuts and is just as has been reported by others in this thread.

A question to the group; would it be dangerous to set the rear camber closer to zero, or maybe match the front -.7 degrees?

I as well intend to keep this car to 250K on the clock, currently at 85K.

 

Mark

I am easily getting over 40 MPG in city driving (hand calculated), yet when taking long Texas highway road trips when I must push 75 mph I only get 34.5 on the average. I have been trying to find a -magic- highway speed to get to my appointments on time and not waste efficiency. I don't seem to have found the sweet spot on this. I am in Texas Hill country primarily making continuous ups and downs and running lots of A/C lately. I have tried 68 MPH which seems to push me up to around 36.5 to 37 MPG's. I will also 'pedal shift' the car into e-mode on downhills, but I can get sloppy on this on 6 hour trips.

Anyone got a compromise speed they've found to get somewhere relatively fast. I cannot drive 55 MPH, I know this is where this vehicle shines, some places I drive out here the speed limit is 80... The semi-trucks are doing all of that.

Thanks

I am short-timing in an RV while we are building our house. I have been replacing all the 12V incandescent bulbs inside and exterior to the coach with LED's. In this venture I have done some research and found a number of aftermarket companies offering LED retrofit headlight kits for many applications. The only caveat seems that though the LED's put out terrific for a low energy draw, they nonetheless do make heat that will destroy the LED chip quickly if not removed, and the kits have either heat-syncs or even fans. I like the non fan type heat-synch due to simplicity. The non-fanned type however do make the install a little harder and might even preclude an application depending the space immediately behind the headlight reflector. I would think that if we could retrofit to LED headlights that our glide time on battery would be appreciably extended at night with the headlights on. I believe the LED headlight elements draw less than 1/3 the amperage.

Anyone done this or reviewing doing it?

Mark

What freeway speeds are folks using. I'm at 67mph on ECO CRUISE in serious up and down central and west Texas hill country. I have the program upgrade and will run the long downhills in EV mode, I'm still at 38 MPG.

You guys getting the really great mpgs I notice are mostly west coast and possibly not so much A/C running?

You guys driving 55mph?

My dealer told me to approach the published Ford 47/47/47 requires hypermiling and max 55mph on highways.

 

Just asking.

 

Mark

I just got 36 mpg hand calculated, the computer said 38 and for considerable A/C and Texas Hill Country I am grateful. I do hope to push through 40MPG as the weather cools down and the A/C runs less. I am also actively managing my headlight usage when possible. Seems headlights hit the batt harder than the A/C.

Sorry for my ignorance: what is a gaspod?

I'll Google it, but would rather hear it from a forum member.

There is another thread on this here:

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/412-c-max-as-a-ups/

 

I don't think it has gotten anywhere though.  Although I rarely loose power (knock on wood :banghead:  ) I would be interested in this too.

I think something on this will be forthcoming later, as the company that makes the Plug In addition to the Prius is selling it as an aftermarket add on, but only up to around '08 models due to warranty and contractual agreements.

All,

I had an extended power outage last weekend: 21 hours with no power. When researching the C Max hybrid I studied the Energi option as well and the salesman in San Angelo told me a charger for the Energi is coming out late 2013 that has the availability to use the generator and battery on the Energi to backfeed a house and power it during power outages. The Energi did not work for my application so I'm in a hybrid and Googled using a hybrid vehicle to power a house in an outage and found that quite a few folks that know what they're doing have done this in the past with hybrid (non plug in) Prius's. I'm hoping to either get pointed to some information for us using our C Max's battery and generator's to do the same for us, or to get a movement started to look into this. Our cool little cars are generators, adapting them for use in power outages should not only be possible, but I would think relatively straightforward and economical.

Anyone got any data.

 

Thanks

 

Mark

I must say after 28 years, my 'Silence' is deafening to my wife. The silent treatment meets the test of not fueling the 'aggressive negotiations' between man and wife to a downspiral, yet let's my wife I care deeply about the subject matter. AND I don't agree with her position.

Hey I'm no marriage counselor. Works for me.

 

 

She doesn't drive my C-Max.... :)

 

Mark

Are you planning to hypermile up and down or just drive up and down safely?

 

 

I don't hypermile but have found that I can touch the brake just enough to regin and not use the friction pads.

 

You're battery will be at 100% quickly.

 

 

I use the hill descent but turn it off when our speed starts to drop.

When our speed builds I briefly use the friction pads.

Haven't used L.

 

 

Short version:

 

I drive it like a normal car but the people behind are probably thinking

:lol2:

 

" there goes another flat lander burning up his brakes."

Question: 

Is the brake light on when in regen braking??

I guess so huh?

Folks probably think I'm always riding my brakes.

 

Mark

How's everyone doing w/MPG's with the high heat. Since I just got my C-Max SEL a week ago it has been 100+ here in central Texas. I just got tinted today, but I know the A/C unit has to significantly eat into my MPG's, I'm averaging only 32.5 MPG's with very careful driving. I do live in the Texas Hill country, and these constant hills have to as well hurt my ability to join you guys in the 40+ club. Maybe winter...

 

Mark

 

Left side: 1 bar , 2 bar , 3 bar, 4th bar yellow, 5th bar yellow. Red box is typically where you want to keep the power when accelerating in ICE white mode as compared to 1 bar accelerating in EV blue mode.

Jus,

I just got my CMax, and I can't find the screen you displayed here.

I have thumbed around all the menus and not sure where it is?

Mark