BullDurham

It varies state by state. Check your state's lemon law. The booklet I received from the BBB, "How BBB Auto Line Works," says "for all states except California." I don't know what, if anything, the BBB does in California.

I recently completed a lemon-law repurchase of my C-Max, and I wanted to describe the process I went through for the benefit of others who may be considering it. Under most state lemon laws, if there have been four attempts to fix the vehicle, and it is still not fixed, the manufacturer must buy it back, if that’s what the consumer chooses. My fourth incident occurred on the 4th of July, and my dealer kept the car for almost two weeks after that trying every possible solution. They were in contact with Ford throughout this process, and at the end, someone from Ford (the company, not the dealer) called me and said that they were unable to solve the problem. They had gotten the car running, of course, by recharging the battery, but they could not assure me that the problem would not reoccur. Ford also told my dealer that their engineers were working on a solution to the problem, and expected to have one by October. Since it is now November, and I haven’t read an announcement of a solution, I assume that they are still working on it. I chose to pursue a buyback by going through the Better Business Bureau Autoline Arbitration process that is outlined in the C-Max manual. At first this worked well. After I got my car back from the dealer, I mailed the paperwork to the BBB on July 24. They emailed me when they received it, and said they would let me know when they heard from Ford. They set an arbitration hearing date of September 3. Ford’s first response was to offer to send an engineer to look at my car. I turned that down, and told the BBB that I wanted to go forward with the arbitration hearing. On August 22, the BBB called me and said Ford had agreed to repurchase the car. I received an official notice of this on August 26, and so we cancelled the arbitration hearing. All that remained to be done was to complete some paperwork, agree on a buyback price (which is determined by a formula outlined by the BBB in their Autoline booklet) and complete the buyback. How long should that take? A week, perhaps? In fact, it took more than two exasperating months. Ford outsources this work to a company by the name of Aditya Birla Minacs. To say that they had no sense of urgency is to put it mildly. First, the person who was supposed to handle my case was out of the office for a couple of weeks. Then when he came back, after two calls from me, he told me that the paperwork from the BBB was hard to read. I re-sent it. Finally, in early October he sent me a buyback proposal that was $1000 less than what it should have been. I told him it was unacceptable, and I asked the BBB person to look into it. The BBB person said he would, and that’s the last I ever heard from him. I told the man from Aditya Birla Minacs that if we didn’t get this straightened out, I’d get a lawyer. Finally his supervisor intervened, and we got a correct amount. It then took another week to get the documents signed, and for me to receive my check. That finally happened on October 30. So it was more than three months after I started the process, but most of that time was just wasted time. We should have been able to wrap this up in early September. So here are my takeaways: The BBB Autoline: They were very responsive at first, and then completely non-responsive at the end. This makes it hard to recommend them, because the whole thing could have fallen apart when they didn’t respond. Aditya Birla Minacs: Ford should get someone else. These people identify themselves as the “Ford Buyback Department,” and so their performance reflects badly on Ford. Ford: Given what an awful problem this is, Ford ought to make a far greater effort to help their customers. Understand this: Ford did not buy back my car out of the goodness of their heart. Under North Carolina’s lemon law, they had to buy it back. So the only question that Ford ought to consider is whether they want their customers to feel like Ford was really trying to help them, or whether they think Ford was just grudgingly doing what they had to do. In my opinion, the woman from Ford who called to tell me in July that they couldn’t fix the car should have offered on the spot to buy it back or replace it. No arbitration, no BBB, no Aditya Birla Minacs, just ”we’re going to try to help you right away.” It wouldn’t have cost them any more money, and I would certainly feel better about Ford. One final example of how Ford’s mindset is all wrong: The woman (supervisor) from Aditya Birla Minacs told me that they had overnighted the check to my dealer, and the dealer should call me when they received it. I didn’t get a call the next day. I called the dealer myself, got sent to voicemail, left a message, and got no call back. So I sent a PM to the Ford representative on this website, and asked her if she would call the dealer and see if the check had arrived. This may sound impatient on my part, but I had been waiting a couple of months already, the check was for almost $25,000 (which is not chump change) and I didn’t want it to go astray. The dealer has several branches, and I had visions of it going to the wrong one. What did the Ford representative on this site tell me? “I've noted this in your case. However, as this is concerning a legal request, I’m unable to assist further via social media.” Legal request? Oh, please. As a courtesy, I was asking if she could just ask the dealer if they got the check. That’s the final communication I’ve had from Ford, and it will stick in my mind (and my craw) for a long time. Other Owners With This Problem: You can win your case. But be careful about some of the advice being given on this website. One person tells you over and over again to just buy a battery charger, recharge your battery when it drains, and then be on your way. Here’s the problem with that: if you don’t take it to the dealer, and give them a chance to fix it, it doesn’t count towards the required four incidents, and four attempts to fix it. I received a PM from someone who was having this problem, but had recharged his own battery, and therefore the dealer had no record of the problem, and no attempted fix. At this point, he can’t request a buyback or replacement even though the battery has drained more than four times. Once the car is older than two years or 24,000 miles, you may not be able to get a buyback or replacement at all. So I advise everyone who has this problem, to call Ford Roadside Assistance and have the car towed to the dealer. If you take the car in for something else, have the dealer check the battery, and if it is partially drained, have them try to “fix” it. I assume that Ford will eventually solve the problem. But, then again, they claimed that they had a fix in December of 2013, and obviously they didn’t. They told my dealer they would have a fix by October, and they don’t. I wouldn’t like to bet the price of a car that they’ll fix it.

I recently completed the buyback of my C-Max. I intend to post the details later, but I went through the BBB arbitration process which is outlined in your owner's manual. I live in North Carolina and my circumstances (four repair attempts in a year and a half of ownership) qualified under the NC lemon law. I think you also have a case under SC law, which I believe you have misinterpreted. Check out these FAQ's at the SC Dept. of Consumer Affairs: http://www.consumer.sc.gov/faqs/Pages/lemonlaw.aspx You don't have to have all four problems within the first 12,000 miles; the problem just has to show up for the first time within the first 12,000 miles. Also it says that: "The law presumes a reasonable amount of time to be either three repair attempts for the same defect or thirty days out of service for repairs." So you are already beyond that. Ford will buy your car back. They don't have a leg to stand on with this embarrassing problem. Good luck!

The advantage of using BBB is speed. They aim to resolve cases in 40 days or less. Several people here are talking about taking months going directly to Ford. I filed my paperwork with BBB in late July. Ford responded in mid-August, declining to repurchase, and wanting to send an engineer to examine the car instead. I said no, and we set an arbitration date of September 3. Yesterday, August 22, BBB called me and left a voice mail saying that Ford had agreed to a repurchase. I wasn't able to get back in touch with them on Friday afternoon to find the details, but I assume they will buy it back at a price determined by using the lemon law formula. The BBB process just insures that Ford responds promptly, and if you don't like their response, you can proceed to arbitration promptly. I don't see any downside to this. Even if you lose in arbitration, you can still get a lawyer and pursue other remedies.

Here are rules that Ford has agreed to with the BBB in North Carolina: Repurchase/Replacement The arbitrator may award a repurchase or replacement only if the arbitrator finds that the claim meets the following conditions: The defect(s) in material or workmanship covered by the Ford New Vehicle Limited Warranty was first reported to Ford or an authorized dealer within 18 months or 18,000 miles--whichever occurs first--after the vehicle's warranty start date; andEither (1) the same defect was subject to repair four or more times and continues to exist, or (2) the vehicle was out of service for 30 or more cumulative calendar days for repairs to any defect(s); and The defect(s) substantially impairs the use, value, or safety of the vehicle to the reasonable consumer.If the arbitrator finds that the claim meets these conditions, the arbitrator must award a repurchase or replacement that will consist of the following remedies. . . [it then goes on to describe exactly how they determine the repurchase price or the replacement vehicle] This is pretty straight-forward, and it says nothing about a "final chance" after the four repair attempts. I would also point out again that the dealer had the car for two weeks the final time. I sent a PM to Ashley and she and other Ford personnel were in touch with the dealer. The dealer did check all of the connectors and found no problems. A woman named Michelle of Ford Customer Service (the manufacturer, not the dealer) called me to tell me that the dealer had done everything they could, and they hadn't solved the problem. That leads me to assume that the dealer did not refuse to try something that Ford recommended. Obviously, I understand that Ford would like to have their engineers take a closer look at this car. I just don't care to be involved anymore. The representative of the BBB told me that Ford might change their mind before it goes all the way to arbitration. So, in that sense, I don't suppose I blame them for trying to see if they can get one more crack at it before they buy it back. Still, this has been such a nagging, annoying, persistent problem, that I think the better course for Ford is to be very generous in dealing with any customer afflicted with this problem.

The representative of the BBB Autoline called me yesterday with the first response to my lemon law request that Ford repurchase my car. Ford has not agreed to repurchase the car, but instead wanted to send an engineer to work on it. I told the BBB that that was not acceptable to me. So now we will go to arbitration in early September, unless Ford changes it's mind. Frankly, I think Ford does itself no good by dragging these cases out like this. The car has been in the shop four times, which is what the lemon law requires, and by their own admission, the problem is not fixed. If they want an engineer to work on my car, buy it back. I have already bought another car in order to insure that I could get to my daily cancer treatments at Duke Cancer Center, and therefore I have no interest in keeping the C-Max while they continue to tinker.

Good summary, Salman. You are someone who knows the problem firsthand and has researched it thoroughly. Unfortunately, even if the dealer does everything Ford suggests, the problem is not necessarily solved. My car was towed to the dealer in early July. I sent a PM to Ashley and she was in contact with the dealer. They kept the car for two weeks and did everything they could. Michelle, of Ford Customer Service, finally called me and admitted that they were unable to solve the problem right now. She said the problem had been "escalated" to Engineering. The service advisor wrote on my receipt: "SSM44559 Engineers are still working on a fix for this problem." I assume that SSM44559 is some sort of technical memo from Ford to dealers. Anyone have any idea what it says?

drdiesel1, You can believe what you like, but I find your "belief" amazing in light of everything that has been written here about the battery draining problem. If it was as easy as properly charging a battery, Ford wouldn't have been having to buy back cars. And it's scarcely a matter of "trusting" the dealer. After the most recent incident, the dealer kept my car for over two weeks trying to solve the problem. They were in constant touch with Ford. Ford called me back and told me that they were unable to solve the problem and were "escalating" it to Engineering. Engineering is now saying that they hope to have a solution by the end of the third quarter (beginning of October). Also, my battery has NOT been "low all it's life, dead and only jump started." The dealer gave me a NEW battery in mid-December after they did the 13B12 fix. In early February, I had a dead battery. That's much less than three months. Why do a small number of people on this forum keep trying to insist that the problem is with customer or the dealer rather than with the car? Ford knows the problem is with the car. So why don't you?

"You'll never suffer this problem again if you use it to maintain your battery every 3 to 6 months." I wish it were that simple, drdiesel1. But if you've had the battery drain problem, you know that it can reoccur in less than 3 months. I had my battery recharged at the dealer on June 11. The car was dead on the morning of July 4. That's only slightly more than three weeks, never mind three months. I know that the people who keep talking about getting battery chargers mean well, but that is not a solution to the problem. Both times that my car was dead, the roadside assistance person was unable to jump the car enough to start it. It had to be towed to the dealer. And to add to what bil_Jeschke says above, if you need to get to work or someplace else, you don't have time to wait around for thirty minutes to see if a battery charger will get the car started.

University Ford, downtown.

Oh, it's been performed. I sent a pm to Ashley on this site and she was in contact with the dealer. They kept the car for two weeks after the latest dead battery. They were in contact with Ford about every possible fix. Finally, Michelle of Ford Customer Service called me and said the dealer had done everything he could do and the matter had been "escalated" to Ford Engineering. What this means is that Ford recognizes they have not solved the problem yet. The service adviser wrote on my ticket: "SSM44559--Engineers are still working on a fix for this problem." (Maybe some of the tech wizards in the forum can find out more about SSM44559.) The service adviser told me that Ford had told him that they hoped to have a solution by October. But, of course, 13B12 was supposed to be a fix last December. I will repeat what I said above, even if the moderator doesn't like it: this is Ford's problem to fix, and it shouldn't be blamed on anyone else. I'm sure some dealers could do a better job. And I'm sure that customers could mitigate the situation somewhat by carrying around battery chargers. But neither of those would even be issues if Ford fixed the underlying problem.

I just sent in the documentation to initiate a N.C. Lemon Law case because of the 12 v. battery problem. I am using the BBB process that Ford has agreed to accept. Under NC law, if there have been four attempts to fix the same defect and it continues to exist, the arbitrator MUST order a repurchase or replacement. My C-Max has been at the dealership for the battery issue four times. The last time, I contacted Ashley on this site, and she contacted the dealership. I do not know exactly what they talked about, but the dealership kept the car for two weeks, trying everything they could. They confirmed that something is draining the battery, but they could not correct it. Michelle, of Ford Customer Service, called me and told me that the case had been "escalated" to Engineering. That doesn't mean that Engineering is going to do anything with my car, but that Ford recognizes that the dealer can't fix the problem right now. In fact the service advisor wrote on my receipt: "SSM44559 Engineers are still working on a fix for this problem." The service advisor told me orally that Ford hopes to have a solution by October. Of course, that was what 13B12 was supposed to do. For the sake of everyone who continues to own a C-Max, I hope Engineering does come up with a solution. But NC law is clear: there have been four attempts to fix it, and it ain't been fixed. They will need to repurchase. I just hope that this will go simply, and that Ford will do the right thing. I will keep people posted.

Not that it matters, Paul, but here's the story: I took it in for the recall that was supposed to fix the battery problem. They told me that the battery was so run down that they replaced it. That was December of 2013, and that's incident number one. In February, Ione fine morning, it was drained and would not start. It could not be jumped, and was towed. The dealer recharged the battery and did something, claiming that it was cold weather that caused the problem. That was incident number 2. I took it in for two recalls in June, and asked them to check the battery. They told me they replaced it. That's incident number three. Now, today, it was dead, and that's incident number four. No, I have not tried jumping it today. You see, my previous car was a Toyota that I had for 13 years, and before that I had a Honda for ten years, and together, both of them spent less time in the shop in 23 years than the C-Max has spent in a year and a half. So I, unlike you, am not used to cars that need to carry around a mechanical shop in the the trunk. I think your attitude is indicative of what's wrong with Detroit. If there are persistent problems, somehow it's the customer's fault for not doing something differently.

The first time the battery died, Ford Roadside Assistance sent a guy to jump it, and he could not get it started. It had to be towed. A jumper cable might work sometime. But I want a permanent fix to the problem. Is that unreasonable on a car that is a year and a half old and has 7600 miles on it?

I really don't care what KBB says, because they don't have any money riding on it. I tried to trade in my C Max on a Subaru, and the dealer offered me $14,500 in trade! When I gave them the Carmax price, they grudgingly agreed to match it. $18,500 is a fantasy on this car. I would not sell this car to a private party, because I could not in good conscience recommend it after all of the battery failures I've had. My point is simply that the problems with this car are driving down the resale value, and it will get worse. I didn't buy the car as an investment, but I did buy it with the idea of keeping it for ten years, which is my normal habit. There is no way I want another 8 1/2 years of this.