stevedebi

I'm at 53k-ish now. The rubbing/grinding noise is still there, a little louder now, and it has been joined by a loud, whiny, wavery arrrrrrrrr noise. The grinding occurs when the car is moving. The whiny arrrr is loudest by far when the ICE is on (otherwise it can't be heard when stopped). Pop the hood with the ICE on and the whine seems to be coming from somewhere beneath the inverter. 

 

People whose transmissions have failed, please tell me:

1. Are these sounds anything like what you heard when your trans went?

2. What else might these sounds be if not the trans? 

3. What had to happen before your dealer would actually do something about it?

 

The whine is so loud and obnoxious that it turns heads on the street, but apparently that's still too quiet for my dealer's mechanics to make an effort. Something tells me the used-car manager would find the noises plenty loud enough to refuse my trade on grounds of mechanical issues; perhaps I should try that tactic.

 

Fuel economy seems to be taking a bit of a dip, but it's hard to know if that's related, with the lifetime average dropping from 38.1 to 37.7 in the time the whine has been audible.

The A/C sound is about right from my experience. This is the loudest A/C Compressor and fan I've ever heard.

       (above is based on personal experience where I saw this Prius cruising along on a 65 mph divided highway with NO lights,

         and it was almost pitch dark.  Absolutely nuts!)

Or could have just come back from the dealer. They always turn my auto headlights off because the car is in the bay. And I generally forget to set them back on until it gets dark enough to notice.

wow I hope not

Just out of curiosity, you hope not what?

Wow, this has been active the past few days. I'll try and answer here instead of quoting.

I never thought about how much I get out of the entire battery. I'd say 25 in winter and around 34 in summer, the winter is without heat.

As others have noted, EV Later sets aside a portion of the battery equal to the size of the C-Max Hybrid, and then runs that portion up and down, just like the hybrid does.

It sounds like you can use up NRG portion of HVB and then keep going EV in Hybrid part of HVB.  How much extra range is that? :)

 

Paul

Once the "hybrid portion kicks in, it won't go any further than yours, maybe two or three miles. However, many times I've managed to complete an all EV trip by being careful with the accelerator once the "big" battery is finished and I'm into the "hybrid" battery. There is no physical difference, of course; Ford just apportions off part of the Energi HVB and considers that the "hybrid" portion. I imagine they use different parts to spread the load around, but I don't know.

I agree with your first statement. "It will begin early regardless."  Yes, if you don't have value charging set up then the Go times will have basically no effect on charging.  It will simply start charging as soon as you plug it in and finish when it gets to 100%.

 

You have to use Value charging to get any sort of delay and that still doesn't delay for more than a day.

 

 

You seem to have entered a third opinion on EV+ and another one that goes directly against what Ford says it's supposed to do and everything that I've seen it do.  

Ford simply says that it is meant to help keep the ICE from running as you near a place you're going to stop at.  That's all I've seen it do.

If the other opinion I've heard is that it's mean to lower SOC, then I don't see why they didn't just program EV+ to simply aim for that magic 40% charge level.

But it sounds like you don't agree with Ford or the other opinion of lowering SOC.

 

I'm not following what you are thinking EV Later should do with the HVB?  I'd bet it's about the same algorithm as the hybrid  well...  That's what it's supposed to do...  It's purpose is to NOT use the HVB...  If you want to use the HVB, you would go with either EV now or Auto mode...

I probably should have said hybrid mode rather than EV later, although they are similar. The Energi is programmed as if the remaining "hybrid" battery is all there is. In fact there is a lot more HVB capacity available. You can see the effect after the HVB is out of EV and you are running hybrid. The battery attempts to leave room for regen when engaging EV. This is better for the hybrid, which has no extra battery - when you slow down, it has room in the HVB for energy capture. But with the Energi, it does not have to worry about leaving extra capacity to use for regen - it could theoretically perform differently, and not try and leave capacity in the battery. It changes the way the car uses EV. I don't know if it could be improved much, but I've noticed it tries to keep capacity available when the Energi is in "hybrid" mode - just like the C-Max Hybrid does. I doubt that a hybrid owner would notice, but to this Energi owner, I think it could be done better. Anyway, that is how I see that Ford duplicated the code instead of customizing it for the Energi. I think they took the hybrid code and basically tacked on the Energi modes (which were custom made for the plug in models).

It is the same in EV+, but you can't monitor it like you can when the "hybrid" battery is showing - that is, after EV Only and EV Later modes are disabled. In EV Later mode, you still have the mileage estimate on the battery (at least up until the mid 2015 model year, not sure about 2016 and later) - and other than showing range going up and down, you can't really tell what the car is doing with the "hybrid" reserved portion of the battery.

I think there is a lot of overlap with the cars.  Sure, there are differences.  But some times the points overlap depending on what you're trying to explain.

 

Though I'm *completely* missing your point on why EV+ makes more sense in the Energi...  The Energi would be much more likely than the Hybrid to be making it home without starting the ICE...  If you're still in EV mode then EV+ isn't going to do anything at all...

 

Sure there's a reason to only charge the Energi to 50%(or 40% if that seems to be best charge holding battery longevity number).  I park my car Friday afternoon and don't need it again until Tuesday morning.  It would be best if I could just have it in a "storage charge" mode and charged to 40%, then when my Go Time comes up Tuesday morning it finishes charging up to 100%.

 

I think you're confusing some terms...

-"Value charging" is what you could set up to have it delay charging at all and I don't know of anything that would delay it more than a day.

-"Go Times" are what you'd set up to make sure your car is charged and or temp controlled(attempted) by a specific time(but it won't delay anything)

-"EV Later" is only used while you are actually driving and it will just put the car into hybrid mode at whatever set point the battery is currently at.  I.e. you want to keep the EV battery held at 95%.

I'm aware of the terminology. When I set up Go Times I checked out value charging; as I recall it was part of the process, or maybe I just did them together to see if there were cheaper rates.

The Go time will consider the departure time and ensure the HVB is fully charged when you are ready to go, and I believe it will begin early regardless of value settings. You mentioned it might be best if the Energi waited until it had to for charging the HVB in order to be ready at departure. It does exactly that with the Go times. That is why I brought it up.

In my opinion, EV+ doesn't make much sense for the Hybrid. If you run the battery all the way down, it will have to charge up immediately when you start, causing you to run the ICE while charging at first run. My Escape Hybrid tended to do that (that tech required the engine to run at each start up), and it is pretty much the worst for MPG. It would be better if there were more charge available when starting - at least you could get a start and logically kick in the engine once you got going. In addition, unlike the Energi where the grid will charge the HVB, the battery will be in a lower SOC overnight. I think it was easier for Ford to just put in a lot of the same software, and that is why EV+ is in the hybrid.

Along those lines, they could have customized EV Later so that it used the higher capacity HVB - but they didn't; it works the same as the Hybrid, and I would bet that the computer algorithms are just about identical once you hit the EV Later swtich.

There. Despite what I said, we just spend time discussing Energi topics on the hybrid forum - not many will be interested here.

So what you're saying is that EV+ is NOT actually what Ford says it is, but instead has a secret agenda that can not be revealed and therefore not proven.

 

I'm not saying that it IS or is NOT good for the battery, just that I've yet to see any evidence to such a thing.  And I can't fathom why Ford would want to keep that a secret...

 

Sorry buddy but I use EV+ every single day I take my Energi out.  I've owned it for about 8 months now and I think there may have been about 3 times in total when I had some special short range trip where I had enough battery left to make it home.  Every day on my usual commute home about 3-5 miles in the EV portion is done, the ICE kicks in and I'm in pretty much the same hybrid mode as you and when I get to the last half mile-ish with the ICE running, EV+ shows up on the dash and it increases the tolerance (which you can see in the meter) for how much EV it will let you use before kicking the ICE back on.

 

For that matter, if you truly believe that Ford has a secret(and why on earth would they want to keep items to make your battery last longer a secret?) agenda to promote battery longevity by lowering the battery charge while parked then take a look at the Energi.  Why does the car provide no option whatsoever to stop charging at anything less than 100%?(Actual SOC around 90% I believe).  If they wanted to do as you suggest then there would be an option to stop charge at 50% for storage as a default and then finish the charge before you need to drive the car.

livesmith,

This is a C-Max Hybrid forum. The question is why EV+ would be meaningful for the hybrid. It makes sense for the Energi, which plugs into the grid daily.

But there is no point in charging an Energi to 50% - the entire idea of that car is to use as much electric as possible. But in fact, you can use EV Later to charge your car the way you describe, and by default it will begin charging early enough to ensure it is fully charged before you start out in the morning.

EDIT: Just a friendly tip. I monitor this forum even though I have an Energi because a lot of the car is the same. But I'm careful to only get involved in the discussions when I think the topic overlaps with the Energi model. I think it is good etiquette. You will get a lot more interest if you post Energi suff in the Energi forum.

If you are going to buy it there are dealers that discount online.  That's how I got mine.

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/2330-purchase-an-extended-warranty/?p=23323

I generally price them on line and then ask my local dealer if they will match.

From what I've seen, such as this article, the Model E is supposed to have a hybrid and plug in hybrid version, as well as the pure electric version.

Thanks for the link. Looks like I may have to consider it when my lease runs out next year.

And that's part of why I have the extended warranty

I'm on the fence about buying mine after the lease runs out. But if I do purchase this one or a new one, I will be getting the ESP Premium Care for the life of my loan.

I think the "E" is electric only. They will continue the Energi and Hybrid with the Fusion.

I was playing around with 'EV Now' and 'EV Later' button while coasting; keeping it in 'EV Now' while going downhill/coasting and 'EV Later' when I needed to step on the accelerator.

 

As I continued to do that, my 'miles per charge' figure kept climbing....all the way up to 46.6 miles. Then after plugging in (either 110v or 220v), my full charge of electric is 47 miles (from what I can figure, it's about 46+ full miles).

 

My daily commute is about 100 miles round trip (mostly highway) and I try to stay at about 60 or so MPH. My eco-gauge consistenly shows mid 70s of combined MPG.

 

So even if those electric miles drain quicker the faster I drive, it's still way better than the 20 or so miles I'm supposed to get.

You might get more response on the Energi forum. This one is for the C-Max hybrid.

Just another possibility. They may have implemented EV+ for the Energi, and then decided to leave it in for the hybrid as well. In either case, they planned for the battery effects.

Also just a note, the latest Prius upper range models also use LiIon, not NiMh.

Took my Cmax hybrid to an independent mechanic. They didn't want to do some work on it because they were afraid of the liability from the battery. How tough is it to disconnect the batteries?

Not sure about the hybrid, but there is a disconnect behind the right rear passenger seat on the Energi. But so long as they stay away from the HVB and transmission, it should be no trouble.

However, I also only service mine at ford, except for tires. The vehicle is too complex, and it is all computerized.

A paddle shifter on the steering wheel?  Like formula one cars??!    Bizarre..... the gear selector is where it should be.

 

The lack of of power adjustment on the passenger seat is stingyness I associate with 1970's Ford, not today's.

Well, I suppose the paddle shifter would go between the two available shift positions (D and L).

I would also like power passenger, but there is the matter of weight and cost.

My preferred change is still to put the "EV" switch on the console shift lever - there is room above the "hill control" button.

Personally, I just use Fuelly, I am really happy with the various options and often I update it right at the station.

 

...

Well, I have an Energi, so I also need to calculate MPGe, and do a comparison of costs to drive hybrid vs. using my house electricity. So far I'm saving a few bucks each tank by plugging the car in, but I'm keeping my eye on it.

What about Trip 2, do you clear it when you fillup? Members that have 2014 and newer CMAX's shouldn't clear Trip 2 until you get 10k mi., except I think EV only gets to 999mi. So in the final analysis the best way is to take a pic of trip gauge at every fillup with cell phone so you have permanent record. I do this for Fuelly so I have 226 pics on my iPhone. :) It is a shame FORD did away with the Life Time Display. :sad:

 

Paul 

I actually record my information in a spreadsheet, every time I fill up.

Yeah, my car's title is listed as "Fleet" but according to the data that was still in the GPS it looked like it belonged to a doctor in Ohio.  

 

Mine definitely has DRL's with reduced brightness.  I can see when I pull in the garage one level and then they get brighter when it decides that the auto headlamps need to come on.

I believe that one can order from fleet sales; it doesn't have to be for an actual fleet. Or at least that is my understanding.

It sounds like Ford's implementation of DRLs is consistent with Canadian laws for DRLs.  Cars in the US can have DRLs that have more elaborate logic, but in Canada they have to be on anytime the car is on.  I 'd bet that Ford has just opted to implement one set of DRL logic for both markets.

The 2015 and later (US) models have the option to turn the DRL on and off. I imagine they simply removed that option from the driver setup menu for Canadian models.

Dealer performed a "cluster update" today.  It fixed problem described earlier but now there is another, new problem.  My Home no longer knows its own address.  System returns a "No Match" message.  It seems that this problem is unrelated to SYNC2 - v3.8 software.  I may drop this.  Not worth another trip to, and 3+ hours at, the dealership.

I think the system learns your home based on the GPS - which takes some time? Also, you can name the home in the power settings display. Or maybe I did it with MFM, it has been a while.

*********** Update**************

 

I received an email today from Ford customer service manager Leah Shulga (still no "reply within 4 hours as her voice mail said) stating:

"I have reviewed your case with the Service Manager, John, at Lou Fusz. It was determined that the transmission failure occurred due to improper flat towing. The dealer has reached out to Ford’s technical division on your behalf to assist in the case. Ford warranty covers manufacturer defects under the coverage period timeframe. The dealership determines coverage under Ford warranty. The current concern was deemed as damage rather than a manufacturer defect, in which case, it is not covered."

 

Nobody has told me what I did that was "improper flat towing".  The manual instructions have been followed.  She suggested that I get a second opinion from another Ford dealer who might perform the repairs under warranty. HUH???

 

Now the dealer is the final arbiter of warranty claims!!!  I don't know what recourse I have now, other than being told to pound sand...

 

If a Ford rep is on this forum, I would appreciate a little guidance.

The cost is less than 10K, if you think you did it properly, go to small claims court.

My two year old Maximis has at times started to cycle oddly when I use my right hand signal -- it either cycles fast or fast two times and then slow once or twice.  In the past my experience with cars tells me this is due to a light being out, but it's one of those "this problem will NEVER occur when you are stopped and can actually check it" because every time I try it works fine (I HATE intermittent problems, particularly those that only seem to arise when you are on a long trip on the highway :>).

 

In any case, it has happened on and off over the last few months and I'm pretty sure I'll eventually be able to stop and check it when it IS happening, but in the meantime can anyone confirm the source of this problem?  I mean, am I likely to find that a light HAS gone out somewhere?  (Although it's odd that it would go out and then come back on again -- perhaps the bulb is loose or something but until I find out what bulb it is I don't feel comfortable even taking it into the shop).  Or is there something else I might have to consider?

Ford does this to indicate a short in the lighting system. Typically that is a burnt out turn signal bulb somewhere. If it is intermittent, it may be a loose bulb. You need to stop when it is happening and check the lights.

EDIT: Check the brake and tail lights as well.

You can probably buy that color in a can  https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dautomotive&field-keywords=ford+ice+storm+can

Interesting!

 

I painted mine with Rustoleum 2X white gloss. The color is pretty close and you can only tell it's not factory paint in certain light. I think it looks much better than stock. I was originally planning to mask the fake grilles but was too lazy, but I think it looks fine all white 

 

Use a sharp object to pop out the front edge, then pull outward. Then once the front, top, and bottom clips are popped out, slide the whole thing forward. It takes a lot of force to pull forward and overcome the rear clips. 

 

Mine don't seem to pop back in 100%, I guess I did some damage to the clips

 

P1140996.jpg

 

P1150002.jpg

 

Well, that certainly won't work with my Ice Storm!