HotPotato

Well, just got car back. A note about the dealer and the update. The dealer: Perry Ford in Santa Barbara Calif. took 3 days to change the oil, install the headliner update, and install the fuel economy update. And to NOT update Sync, check the front suspension clunk, or check the AC refrigerant level/noise as I asked. They also tried to charge me for the service, even though I had bought a prepaid service plan. Said plan, BTW, cost twice as much as it should have because they had "accidentally" sold me a plan for cars with 5000 mile service intervals, and after months of trying I finally gave up on trying to get a refund for the plan and just kept it. But I digress. The update: Car is definitely louder at 2 bars -- not obnoxious but noticeable -- suggesting the ICE is either working harder or revving higher (didn't flip over to the tach in MyView to verify). Still plenty of torque to chirp the front wheels from a stop, but the delay before the car responds to full throttle -- which was borderline-unacceptable before the update -- seems even worse now. As promised, the car drops in and out of EV even above 62 mph, which is nice. It was 90 degrees today so I left the AC on LO most of the drive, so I cannot say if AC performance is affected in temperature-maintenance mode. One interesting note: I indicated I wasn't sure I wanted the update yet, given the mixed reviews, but the dealer considers it a recall, i.e. mandatory. So if your car is in for service, the update is treated the same as, say, the exploding gas tanks in Crown Vics - something that must be fixed whether you want it or not.

The funny thing is, I find the C-Max reasonably sporty (fbov's points re. same well taken)...my shopping list otherwise consisted of hot hatches and Euro wagons, and it says something that I picked our gas-electric potato instead.

X-post from another thread... I am wondering if it's a good idea for me to get the MPG update or not. Pjurek99 above suggests the updates hose performance; others say it does "at first" but then recovers -- but I suspect that recovery is actually the owners adjusting to the new reduced performance. I bought the car because it was a hot hatch that happened to be a hybrid. Any % decrease in power, responsiveness, acceleration etc AT ALL is not an acceptable trade for me to get 1-3 more MPG. Not stoked on giving up A/C performance either. Anyone have thoughts on this?

I too am wondering if it's a good idea. One comment on here suggests the updates hose performance; others say it does "at first" but then recovers -- but I suspect that recovery is actually the owners adjusting to the new reduced performance. I bought the car because it was a hot hatch that happened to be a hybrid. Any % decrease in power, responsiveness, acceleration etc. AT ALL is not an acceptable trade for me to get 1-3 more MPG. Not stoked on giving up A/C performance either.

The Focus ST uses Torque Vectoring Control too -- that's why it handles so well. Our C-Max is a tall car with a short wheelbase -- bad news without electronics to make it safer and more fun to carry unwise speed through corners.

Someone's trolling all right, and it isn't madcmax.

I believe EPA highway MPG is calculated at 55mph, not 75mph. If you are getting 36-37 MPG at 75 mph, that's outstanding and unworthy of complaint. You're driving a van-shaped, non-diesel car at speeds where the hybrid system can offer very little help.

I am guessing that 4.2.1.F is the update that is supposed to accompany this TSB : http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/2293-tsb-13-6-17-sync-various-functionality-concerns/ Yet the SyncMyRide site continues to tell us that our Gen 1 4.1.2.F version of Sync is current, even though clearly the current version is Gen1 - 4.2.1.F. So what happens? If we take our car to the dealer for a software update per the TSB, will they too say our 4.1.2.F version is current and do nothing? Because if so, I think my head will explode. My base "Sync with MyFord" (SMF) system started out more reliable than the buggy "MyFord Touch" (MFT) system others have complained about, but its performance has steadily degraded -- in particular, it is unable to reliably recognize, play and control a USB device, which makes me feel like putting my fist through the screen on pretty much a weekly basis. I hope they update their information and send us a notice soon. For that matter, I'm wondering when we'll get notice of the fuel-economy software update they've also apparently cooked up. I am registered at both fordowner.com and syncmyride.com, but I have received zero communication from Ford about either one. Didn't the C-Max just come in dead last on the JD Power initial quality survey, #212 out of 212 cars tested or something? It's great if Ford is responding by coming up with fixes for the complaints, but unhelpful if they don't bother to tell owners and dealers about the fixes and get the darn cars in to be fixed.

But it exactly addresses the concerns most of us non-MFT people (SE drivers) are having. Maybe pin it?

@CarpeNivem: I assumed the MFT nav radio was the Sony radio. But now that I do the configurator on the Ford site, I realize it doesn't specify that. Hmm.

I've installed an aftermarket amp already, so not a problem for me... But I don't think it's a plug and play thing. I suspect the MFT/Sony cars have a whole different wiring harness etc., as well as the different dash kit. Anybody know the answer on that?

Seems like the 4 problems that come up are infotainment, 12V battery, suspension, and MPG. Infotainment is a problem for Ford because they over-promise and under-deliver. Auto reviewers have noted that Chrysler's UConnect system is almost laughably simplistic by comparison -- but they prefer it because it's intuitive and reliable. "Easy to use and works every time" beats "shoot, I can't get this feature to work this time...oh crud, now it's rebooting." I thought I'd escaped that curse by getting the base Sync with MyFord (SMF) system instead of MyFord Touch (MFT) -- but my SMF system ended up being buggy and unreliable too, getting worse over time. But Adair noted the other day that Ford released a TSB re. a software update to address the very SMF problems I'm having, and we know they've got 3.5.1 for the problems some MFT users are having, so they are making an effort to make it right. My car hasn't had the 12V battery problem. My friend's has. He says the dealer thinks Ford erred in using such a small 12V battery...because with electrical systems so complex these days, a fair number of cars -- any cars -- are going to have some sort of parasitic or intermittent draw problem. If you have a big 12V battery like in a non-hybrid, there's enough reserve that it won't kill the battery and leave you stranded---you'll never even realize you have a problem, you'll just be surprised that your battery is due for replacement sooner than you expected. My front suspension does seem a little crashy---as if the strut tower busings were a bit worn-out rather than new. That could be because bolts are mis-torqued. Or it could just be that the car's front suspension is softer than my old car's. Haven't had the car in for service yet. Re MPG... as they taught us in high-school physics, a heavier, taller, more powerful car (C-Max) can't get better mileage than a lighter, lower, less powerful one (Prius V) -- Ford can game the EPA test, but they can't suspend the laws of physics. My lifetime average is 37.4, and I'm happy with that--we're driving a van, for Pete's sake, and the compact SUV we'd drive otherwise gets mid-20s MPG. Again, overpromising and underdelivering is the problem. Ford may have needed the dubious MPG number for their CAFE ratings, but they shouldn't have promoted the car on it. Instead, they should have played up the areas where the C-Max spanks the competition -- it's the affordable hybrid that's fun to drive around town, relaxing to drive on a road trip, and useful to drive to Home Depot. "More fun, more luxury, more utility, more car. Ford C-Max Hybrid. The hybrid without excuses." Something like that.

Holy cow, that really is a deal. I should have had you shop for me!

@Jus, I have a nav app (Magellan) on my phone that doesn't require a cell signal (maps stored on the phone, all it needs is a GPS signal). Expensive as apps go, but vastly cheaper than optional nav on the car. I hear you on the big screen tho.

@obob: Katzkin brand leather seat recovering kits, most likely. Many dealers sell & will install them, and they are available in a dizzying array of colors and a couple of textures. As I recall, there's a color that matches the C-Max medium light stone interior, Oyster maybe. And various graphitey colors that should match the black.

For me, a dead-base SE was about as much money as I could spend, and while MFT seemed fun, I've always felt it was dumb to pay for a big screen if you weren't getting nav, and why would you do that since an iPhone on a dash mount gives you a better voice-recognition and nav system than MFT with nav. BUT. Leather would be nice...and the amount of money it takes to upgrade the SE's stereo to the equivalent of the Sony system is ABSURD. So if I could do it again, I'd get MFT with Sony and nav---on an SEL if I could swing it, on an SE if I couldn't.

If you live in an area with grooved freeways (e.g. California), and you have almost any car with good tire tread and sensitive steering instead of ship's-tiller slop, you will have this "problem." The treads follow the grooves like wagon-trail ruts. It can be solved by replacing your quality automobile with a 20 year old Chevy Tahoe with a half-turn of steering play, bald tires and worn-out steering bushings, so the wandering wheels are never felt through the steering wheel. ;) Why Southern California adopted this extreme safety measure for the RAINS THAT NEVER COME, I dunno. But yeah, cars with quicker steering (fewer turns lock to lock) and less play (no on-center dead spot where the wheel doesn't respond to being turned) are more vulnerable to it. I've had cars where it's super-noticeable (a vintage Porsche with manual steering, a Mazda 3 Sport, the C-Max), and cars where it's not so noticeable (the ones with lower quality steering).

Some nasty A/C sound appears to be normal for this car, and we could presume it's present in all cars but normally masked by the sound of the engine or cooling fan. One reviewer compared it to a "dying transformer" and actually posted video/audio of the car at startup to demonstrate that he wasn't exaggerating how unpleasant it sounded. Then for fun he also posted startup audio/video of an Audi R8 with a Lamborghini V10 for "comparison." It's a gleefully vicious review that ends in grudging respect: http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/2013-ford-c-max-the-not-jalopnik-review-510999801 So yeah, that sound. It's so nasty that co-workers look at me when I'm driving through the parking lot as if to ask if my brand-new C-Max is terribly broken. I have taken to driving through the lot with the A/C turned off so that instead they'll be impressed with the sexy faraway-jet-engine sound of the C-Max in EV mode. Bad noises in a car always feel to me like contempt for the customer. Years ago I had a Saturn SL2 from the best year (1998 -- sporty tuning per earlier models, quieter running per later models) and there was just one thing I hated about it -- the horrible dying-transformer noise it made at idle. It bugged me SO MUCH because that's the kind of thing a Japanese manufacturer would notice, realize what an impact it could have on perceived quality and ownership enjoyment (hence willingness to be a repeat buyer), and FIX before releasing the model for sale. Ahem. The perceived-quality issue is as real today as in 1998...and, ahem, Ford, you may notice Saturn isn't around anymore.

Mine doesn't have the problem, but my friend's identical one does. Go figure. It's happened twice -- first time they did the firmware upgrade and second time they replaced the battery. He's still happy with it, and says he'd buy it again. (Anyway, if it happens a couple more times, lemon law says he can get a buyback -- and get the SEL he wishes he'd bought instead of an SE.)

Doesn't seem like they'd be putting them in rental fleets to boost sales numbers -- given that many buyers have to wait weeks or even months to get their car, demand seems plenty healthy vs supply. More likely they're putting them out there so people can have the experience of driving one and say "ooh, I want." If you are unhappy with your purchase, have you considered putting it up for sale on this site? Someone waiting for theirs to arrive eventually might prefer to buy yours now.

Holy cow! Not too shabby. Are we merged with that other, lesser C-Max Hybrid forum yet? :-)

GreenChicago, unlike plugging in your phone via the dock connector, in Bluetooth mode the phone's own volume controls are still active. So if you don't have your phone's volume cranked up, the volume will similarly be lower when streaming audio in-car. At least that's how it is in mine.

I have the non-touchscreen stereo. I use it in USB mode with my iPhone, and I use the iPhone for everything: music, navigation, etc. So it is infuriating how frequently the stereo just flat-out fails to work in USB mode. Sometimes it can't finish indexing the songs, other times that's no problem. But often it simply won't play any sound at all while in USB mode: no music, no apps, nothing from the phone at all. Sometimes it starts working after a minute; usually it doesn't. I tell it "Play" and it tells me that command is not available. I try various combinations of cycling the source, power cycling the car/phone/stereo, cycling the iphone from Sync to Dock Connector mode etc., and eventually it works -- but i have no idea why. Good thing I'm not trying to impress anyone by showing off the infotainment system. Any idea why this happens? What can I do? Maybe the system hangs due to too many songs or contacts or something?