HotPotato

Looks like diesel emissions cheating is a bigger problem in Europe than we thought: "they all do it" indeed. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/10/uk-researcher-basically-every-diesel-automaker-is-illegally-polluting/#more-1187306 VWs aren't even the worst offender. The Europeans have both high fuel taxes and stiff CO2 targets. You can optimize fuel economy and reduce CO2 emissions with a diesel if you don't mind it spewing loads of NOx. The regulations do mind that, of course, since NOx reacts with sunlight to create smog and make people sick or worse, but automakers' solution to that seems to be cheating on the emissions test. Increasingly it seems like Clean Diesel is an oxymoron. And today's gasoline direct-injection (GDI) engines produce diesel-like levels of deadly particulate pollution, which IIRC the regulations don't take into account because GDI didn't even exist when they were written. Today's tiny gasoline turbos also run rich under load. In short, the much-vaunted gasoline clean tech from Hyundai/Kia and Ford is not so clean. Nissan seems have the right idea using CVT transmissions to optimize the efficiency of conventional powertrains instead--an Altima is big inside, has ample power, and will get 37 mpg all day long at extra-legal highway speed--but the CVT comes with its own problems, namely a much greater chance of transmission failure when mileage approaches six figures--and scrapping cars halfway through their useful life due to a costly repair isn't green either. Ford seems to have an excellent solution to the MPG/emissions challenge with the C-Max Hybrid: robust powertrain components, in a car with European road manners and packaging, and diesel-like torque and economy. If they're smart, they'll get it to Europeans pronto. I hope this scandal, and the GDI scandal that may follow, will help push us all to a battery-electric future. It's a little ironic that some of the parts of the US embracing BEVs most strongly---the state of Colorado, the city of Indianapolis---are mostly coal-powered, unlike most of the US, which has been rapidly moving to cleaner natural gas and to some extent alternative energy. Folks smarter than me have done the math, and even a 100% coal-powered electric car is cleaner than most conventional cars, but it's even better if it's charged on Oregon hydropower or California rooftop solar rather than Indiana coal.

There have been several threads about this creaking-when-turning issue--it's very common. Mine does the same thing. Some think it's the seals, some the exterior B-pillar trim (push it and you'll hear the exact same creak). If your dealer is like mine, "they all do that" is considered an acceptable response, and you'll just turn up the radio. Sorry Kotsby, I'm with David on this. The fact so many people are having noise from movement in the door frame, regardless of which part is doing the creaking, inspires no confidence in the torsional rigidity of the car. I had a VW Passat wagon, which like the C-Max has a lot of openings and has double-sealed doors, but even after 10 years, there was never a creak, not even when traversing lumpy unpaved ground. I realize that's a higher class of car, but "not creaking like a hoopty that's been in a wreck" is a realistic expectation for ANY car you're still making new-car payments on.

The industry blog "The Truth About Cars" has been covering the daylights out of this issue. To get an idea of how much power and MPG might suffer if the cars are brought into compliance, they looked at the adjustments GM made to the European-market Opel Zafira Tourer's Diesel engine to get it to pass US emissions so it could be installed in the US-market Chevy Cruze Diesel, which competes with VW's TDI. "GM may have paved the way for a Volkswagen fix since they were able to lower the NOx output from their engine by making a few hardware changes and adjusting the emissions programming to reduce fueling. These changes are apparent when you look at the specs for the vehicles. The European engine produces 163 hp and 260 lb.-ft. while the US engine produces 151 hp and 250 lb.-ft. The fuel economy is also noticeably better for the European version with the heavier Zafira Tourer enjoying a 40 mpg combined rating while the Cruze Diesel is rated at 33 mpg combined by the EPA. All of these changes fall in line with a reduction in fuel injection timing. Reducing the timing causes a decrease in power and fuel economy, but also reduces the NOx output. One other hint to the changes lies in the CO2 output ratings which put the Zafira Tourer at 220 grams per mile while the Cruze is at 307 grams per mile. This goes in line with a lower NOx output rating for the Cruze as due to the inverse relationship of CO2 and NOx output. Round that 7mpg difference to 10, given that the Zafira is a bigger and heavier car, and you're looking at 10/10/10: lose 10 hp, 10 lb ft of torque, and 10 combined MPG. That doesn't seem so bad, but it would apply only to the very newest VW TDI's, e.g. the 2015s, which were already equipped with urea injection. The older cars, without urea injection, are going to be another story--VW would have to design a whole new urea system, since their existing one doesn't fit the earlier cars, or else deliver a much bigger cut to power, economy, and reliability. They continue: "The dirty piece of reducing the injection timing is that more soot is created, which is why many are against such a fix for the Volkswagen diesels. This side effect is apparent in the Cruze as many have complained about soot buildup and the ability of the diesel regen cycle to clean it. The regen cycle in the Cruze burns additional diesel to heat up the particulate filter and clear out the soot, but dealers are running manual regens orincreasing the regen cycle to help combat these issues due to the heavy soot build up on some vehicles. While the longer regen cycles will help to combat soot, they will also reduce the fuel economy as more diesel is dumped in order to heat up the filter." That is, the GM engine may need to lose a little more MPG yet to get the soot issue under control as well. Here's a link: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/09/tech-dive-chevy-cruze-stays-clean/

It's all relative. Gasoline prices in California are double what they are in, say, Louisiana. If electricity prices are double too, that would be appropriate and expected, and electricity would still be the better deal. There's a limited supply of California to go around, and a high demand to live here, so the cost of living is high. (FWIW, green energy grows less expensive worldwide as it grows less exotic. Per Deutsche Bank (2/27/2015), the ratio of coal based wholesale electricity to solar electricity cost, which was 7:1 four years ago, is now less than 2:1 and could likely approach 1:1 over the next 12-18 months--that is, no cost difference at all between coal, traditionally the cheapest dirtiest fuel, and solar, traditionally the costliest and cleanest.)

The flat charge is a stopgap until they get individually metered lines installed. Average price per kilowatt hour of electricity in the US is 12 cents, so I'm not worried. Whether an EV pencils out depends on the cost of the EV and the electricity. Getting a good deal on the car is easy: if you live in a ZEV state, lease the one you want new; and if you don't live in an ZEV state, buy a used Nissan Leaf. Getting a good deal on the power is easy if you charge at home with 120 or 240v, even more so with a time-of-use plan; but it costs a little more to charge at 240v public chargers than at home, and can cost more than gas to charge at public 480v DC fast chargers. In short, it depends on your use case, but for most people it'll be cheaper. I did a spreadsheet and found I could save anywhere from 3 to 10 grand over the next 3 years by swapping the C-Max for second EV, but I'm holding out for longer-range batteries.

Official city mileage is 122 MPGe and hwy 108 MPGe (miles-per-gallon-equivalent). Couldn't tell you what the WHM is because my HOA charges a flat monthly fee for EV charging rather than metering. But I can tell you the smiles-per-watt are off the charts! Scheduled maintenance intervals on this car: show up once a year for tire rotation and a fluid level check. Pretty great.

Hey, if you want to try out a Focus Electric for a while without a long-term commitment, there's a guy on Swapalease who's only got 6 months left on his lease and is willing to be bought out: you just take over his monthlies, which are pretty low, and he'll kick in $500 which should be enough to ship the car to you. Hardly seems worth his effort at this point, but I was tempted!

Aaand once again a thread has been hijacked by our shared belief that we're the only good driver out there and everyone else is a bunch of bozos. Everyone has a particular flavor of bozo that they most love to hate--mine being the guy that passes me, then slows down, then I have to pass him, then he rides my bumper, which is what I mean by not maintaining a speed. But the funny thing is, I think 95% of us agree on 95% of the principles of good driving and follow them 95% of the time. That means we're the bozo 5% of the time, and there are enough motorists out there that wow, the road is just filled with bozos! :)

Oof. I tell you, this is one reason I'm big on electric cars: less mechanical maintenance and less mechanical crap to go wrong. Much better! As long as the manufacturer cares enough to debug the software and train the dealer technicians, that is, and based on my experience with a thrilling but buggy Fiat 500e, FiatChryslerAmerica does not. But the great thing about software bugs is you can literally fix them by turning it off and back on again!

Ha! I hear you. C'mon y'all...drive friendly. :-)

For a while during my C-Max ownership I had a 2-mile commute, and while my MPG was still much better than the car I had before, it wasn't ideal because the gas engine pretty much had to run the whole way to get up to operating temperature. To get that lovely no-gas EV mode you might go with a plug-in hybrid instead, like the C-Max Energi, because it's capable of operating as an electric car for moderate distances. But...don't kill me, Energi fans...the Energi's acceleration in electric-only mode is a bit anemic, about 15 seconds 0-60; and handling and cargo space and hybrid-mode MPG are all negatively impacted by the additional weight of the larger battery. The Chevy Volt is a better implementation of the concept, although I suppose technically it's an extended-range electric vehicle rather than a plug-in hybrid. Which brings me to the point: perhaps you need an EV -- a purely electric vehicle! You'll use no gas at all, and with your short commute you'll never have range anxiety. If you want a quiet, sophisticated, spacious 4-door hatchback, there's the Nissan Leaf, VW e-Golf, Ford Focus Electric, or Mercedes-Benz B-class. If you want a fast, fun little car that'll put a grin on your face, there's the Fiat 500e or Chevy Spark EV. If you want a nimble and affordable city car, there's the Mitsubishi i-MIEV or Smart Electric Drive. If you want a moon buggy, there's the BMW i3. You can find lease deals with low or no down payment and low monthlies, and your state may offer rebates; or you can buy a low-mileage used EV (off-lease or dealer demo) for a great price. ...or if your budget is nothing like mine, get a Tesla! :-)

You get to choose whether you want your C-Max's cruise control to operate normally or in Eco-Cruise mode. In Eco-Cruise mode, it responds to speed changes more slowly, allowing you to lose more speed on a gentle incline for instance. You can look in your vehicle settings -- play with the left-hand control pad on your steering wheel to see options in the left-hand screen--to see if Eco-Cruise mode is currently turned on or off. Personally, nothing annoys me more than following some jerk on the highway who can't maintain a set speed, and having to constantly speed up and slow down to accommodate their inattention. Turning on Eco-Cruise means I actually become that jerk who can't simply maintain a speed, and I refuse to do that to other people. But it probably does have some small MPG benefit.

The battery in a hybrid is not big enough to power the car all by itself for more than a mile or so on flat ground. Your C-Max will try to maintain about 50% in the battery at all times: enough that it will have reserve to help you get up a hill, but not so much that it won't have capacity to absorb a charge as you go down a hill. A plug-in hybrid, like the C-Max Energi, has a much bigger battery that you can add more charge to by plugging into the wall. It can go more like 10-20 miles on battery alone; so it behaves much more like you were expecting this car to. A fully electric vehicle, like a Focus Electric, has an even bigger battery and can use battery power for about 80 miles -- but there's no gas engine, so you then have to recharge the car, which takes between 4-24 hours depending on how powerful the charger is. Some newer electric vehicles can mostly recharge in about 20-30 minutes from a high-power public charger, but there aren't many of those installed yet.

Sorry--about 39,600 miles. But if people are going twice that long before a failure--around the time a totally healthy GM automatic would fail, in my experience--then I guess I should settle down.

My door plate says 10/12 and my window sticker says 10/18/12. Do I have a failing trans? I don't know. I have two distinct dying-bearing noises that are quiet enough that service people won't yet take action to diagnose and fix, but loud enough that sales people hear a mechanical issue and won't take the car in trade. "Waiting for something to break" is not a great feeling.

Ditto. Plus, I live in a condo complex and my home is too far from my garage for the transmitter to connect anyway. It just happened again the other day. Good thing the car wasn't outside, as it has been raining. I've heard this may be connected to the same 12-volt gremlins that cause dead batteries and radios not shutting off--but it happened most recently right AFTER I got the two latest C-Max software updates done. (For that matter, the radio-staying-on thing never happened before the updates, but it has now happened after them.) I really, really, really love the way the car drives and feels, and it's thrifty too; there's nothing out there I like more. And yet I'm tempted to get rid of it, despite the stomach-churning depreciation. My complaints are all minor issues--a couple of window-rolling incidents, a couple of dead-battery incidents, door pillars creaking like a clapped-out hooptie, cargo area shedding its trim like a molting reptile, crashy front suspension, and a pair of noises that sound like failing bearings (OK, that last one is maybe not such a minor issue). But cumulatively, all this stuff on a car with under 40k miles does not inspire confidence. In my less charitable moments, I think of Ford as the new VW circa 2003: great to drive, affordable to buy, and nice inside...but the quality of engineering, testing, assembly, and dealer service falls short.

Welcome! I think you'll love the car. I get to rent lots of cars in my job--nice ones--and I'm always happy to get back in my C-Max.

Dropped my car off for 15B04 (and another ECU repgrogram which showed up on the dealer's computer). Picked it up a couple days later. Nowhere in the paperwork did the dealer specify what they found or what they did: no info re the status of connectors, battery, wire chafing, etc. Shouldn't they be able to report on what they did? If I were a cynic, I'd think they took Ford's money and didn't do anything.

Just saw an HR-V in the wild. It is smaller than you might imagine: based on the Fiesta-sized Fit; not the Focus-sized Civic. Its Ford equivalent might be the B-Max, which we don't get in North America. ...Or for a more familiar comparison, the Buick Encore or Nissan Juke. It's a tall wagon and a Honda, so I imagine it will be roomy for its size.

LEV-Low-Emission VehicleThis standard was the required average for all light vehicles sold nationwide for model years 2004 and beyond. ULEV-Ultra-Low-Emission VehicleVehicles with this designation are 50 percent cleaner than the average new model-year vehicle. SULEV-Super Ultra-Low-Emission VehicleVehicles with this designation are 90 percent cleaner than the average new model-year vehicle. PZEV-Partial Zero-Emission VehicleVehicles that meet SULEV tailpipe emissions standards, have a 15-year/150,000-mile warranty and zero evaporative emissions. AT PZEV-Advanced Technology PZEVCompressed natural-gas or hybrid vehicles that meet SULEV standards for tailpipe emissions, have a 15-year/150,000-mile warranty, zero evaporative emissions, as well as include advanced technology components. ZEV-Zero-Emissions VehicleElectric and hydrogen-fuel-cell vehicles that have zero harmful tailpipe emissions and are 98 percent cleaner than the average new model-year vehicle.

Me three. Dealer said he couldn't find one of the carpet pads in the car so he removed the other one to match...

Funny you should say that. I hear a grindy whomp-whomp at low speeds, and a sound at the frequency of a low whistle at high speeds, both of which I associate with a bearing going out. But... The whomp could just be some sort of flat-spotting/wear on the tires, and the low-whistle could just be a little more drivetrain noise due to normal wear. But... The tires still look new and I run them at Ford's recommended pressures, and 36k mi isn't much wear on a car. But... The noises are quite subtle and they do not seem to be getting perceptibly worse. SO...maybe I'm worried over nothing.

Ha! True. I'm 43...I should update my profile blurb on the side!

I've seen a college student and an early 30s guy driving one, but otherwise most C-Max drivers I see on the road are older. Same as with other tall compact wagons such as the Scion xB or the Kia Soul: marketed to youth, but actually bought by those eyeing or enjoying retirement, due to the easy ingress/egress. You don't crouch down to get in, you just slide in. I think there's a stats page on here where you can check the average age of forum members, though that may skew younger than the overall owner population.

This thread, software update, and post apply to the NON-TOUCHSCREEN stereo. It was almost a year after getting the car that I figured out the sequence to make the system reliably send music from an iPhone: 1) verify Bluetooth is turned on on the phone, 2) plug in the USB cable, 3) only then turn on the car, 4) immediately switch to RADIO, 5) wait for Bluetooth icon to appear in center display, 6) only then switch to AUX. If you're lucky, it will connect in USB mode. If you're unlucky, it will connect in LINE IN mode and you'll feel like putting your fist through the dashboard, but instead you'll pull the voice paddle and say "Bluetooth Audio," since that usually works when USB doesn't. Don't ask me why Bluetooth needs to connect before USB will reliably work...maybe the Bluetooth connection time happens to match the USB authentication time. I think the idea of this update is that you won't have to do steps 4-6 anymore - it should just pick up in USB mode by itself if that's what it was on when you were last in the car. Since the update was installed, I can't say I've found that to be the case...but the USB and Bluetooth Audio connections are less likely to randomly fail as I drive, which is a big plus.