raadsel

The 20% doesn't surprise me but the 60% seems a bit low. My guess is the charge warning comes on at about 20% charge (0% shown) and the car shuts down around 10-15% charge.

As I stated above, I don't believe the car will allow the HV battery to completely deplete. Instead, when the charge drops below "normal" levels, my guess is somewhere around what the displays show as 1 or 0% charge, the "Check Battery Charge" warning will display. I then expect the car will be shut off if the charge drops down to a minimum level, likely around the maximum that might be needed to start the ICE. One thing I'd be interested in knowing is if the display shows the actual charge level. I suspect that it is only shows from about 10%-90%, that the top and bottom 10% is "reserved", to not be used (and maybe only 20-80%).

I guessing that when you are talking about the HVB, you are talking about the plug-in battery -- that the car stops working at all unless it switches to hybrid mode. Although I may misunderstand, it seems like the Energi acts as if it has two high voltage batteries -- the plug in battery and the hybrid battery. From what I can tell, the hybrid battery cannot be charged by the plug, nor can the plug-in battery be charged by the hybrid system. For discharge, the plug-in battery is only used when in "EV mode", and the hybrid battery is only used when in "Hybrid mode". As for the hybrid battery, while it is meant to charge and discharge, it avoids a full discharge, both because it is bad for battery longevity but also because, as was previously pointed out, the ICE can't be started if the hybrid battery does not have enough power. The "starter" on the hybrid is an electric motor/generator that is powered by the hybrid battery -- the 12V battery cannot start the ICE. There are warnings, such as "Check Battery Charge", that are programmed in when the battery gets too low. Beyond that, there is a "Stop Safely Now" warning, that "Displays when the stop safety hazard warning lamp is illuminated. This indicates an electrical component fault/failure that will cause the vehicle to shut down or enter into limited operating mode." I believe in the above case, you'd get the "Check Battery Charge" light first, but only when the battery charge is very low, lower than it would be allowed to go in normal driving. If the charge continued to drop, that is when the "Stop Safely Now" alarm would come on, and shut off the car. From what the manual shows, it shows models with a key having three positions, "I" is the accessory mode, "II" is On mode, and "III" is start. From the descriptions, accessory "Allows the electrical accessories, such as the radio, to operate while the engine is not running." II seems to correlate with what you call "Standby", "All electrical circuits are operational and the warning lamps and indicators illuminate." The manual uses this same description for "On mode" with keyless start (pushing the state button without depressing the brake) -- so it is different from accessory mode with a key. III starts the car -- similar to pushing the button with the brake pedal depressed with a keyless start. From what I can tell, the closest the keyless start versions have to accessory is the mode just after you have turned the car off, where the radio and other electronics continue to operate until you open the door. As for discharging the hybrid battery while in "On mode" (what you are calling standby), it does seem like it should take quite a while; though there are mitigating factors. First, the hybrid battery may start with a low charge, particularly if EV+ mode (the hybrid version of EV+) is turned on and the battery discharged during the last few miles, the last time it was driven. Next, it is not just the radio that is being powered, but all the electronics in the car (various computers, climate control, etc). This is a much greater power draw than accessory mode would be. It is also unclear how long the OP left the car on.

If I'm reading the OP correctly, he has the SEL so his system should be fairly similar to yours -- other than having the plug-in battery. Further, it appears the SE version, with the physical key, does still has an "accessory mode" (key position I). As you note, the keyless start versions do not have an "accessory mode", rather (if you do not press on the brake while pushing the start button) it goes into "On mode." In "On mode", it appears that all the circuits are turned on as if the car was started, other than it will not start either the electric motor or the ICE. Because all the electric circuits are on (from what the manual states), it seems the hybrid battery is also connected (it is electronically disconnected when the car is turned off). As such, it appears that even though the Nav system uses the 12V battery to power it, with the car being "on" the hybrid battery was recharging the 12V battery as it drained, causing the hybrid battery to get low on power. Because the car is not in "Ready to Drive mode", I doubt the ICE would turn on to recharge the battery. Instead, my guess is that, if the hybrid battery charge became low enough, it would trigger a low charge alarm -- just as if you were driving and the hybrid battery lost its charge. I'm guessing that, as the hybrid battery level dropped, it would turn the car off -- to protect the hybrid battery and maintain a minimum level of charge (enough to start the ICE). It might be good to get this verified by our friendly Ford rep.

From what I can see, the Fusion and C-Max have the same powertrain, it is the HF35 transmission that includes the 2.0L engine and two electric motors connected to the CVT. The HF35 is built in Ford's Van Dyke plant in Sterling, MI, then apparently the powertrain is shipped to the Hermosillo and Michigan (Wayne) assembly plants to build the Lincoln MKZ; the Fusion Hybrid and Energi; and the C-Max and C-Max Energi. That doesn't mean there can't be some minor differences, there could be different "versions" of the HF35 for each car -- though it seems like it would be less efficient on Ford's part. Instead, I would think the differences would be in the assembly of the car, not in the transmission itself.

What about the engine, motor, and transmission? Are the powertrains for the C-Max and Fusion made at the same plant, or are they made at the plants where each car is assembled? It would make sense to me if the powertrains are assembled at the same plant but then shipped to each plant for final assembly of the cars.

The reliability ratings are actually from surveys that CR sends out. If there is bias, it is that of those who fill out the surveys (which, as I understand, are largely CR subscribers). Though insufficient sampling, especially for a car like the C-Max, could be a factor -- and why the Fusion rates better.

Looking at CR, for 2013 they have black circles (much worse than average) for electrical, body hardware, and audio system. Additionally, the 2013 is average for fuel system, body integrity, and paint/trim. Climate and power equipment is rated better than average, everything else is rated much better than average. The 2014 does a little better, but still is much worse than average for electrical and audio system. Body hardware moves up to average and, for some reason, power equipment is rated average (maybe the liftgate issues?). Engine cooling drops to merely better than average (down from much better), everything else (including body integrity and fuel system) are rated much better than average. Overall, both the 2013 and 2015 are rated overall as much worse than average. To compare, the Fusion Hybrid in 2013 was much worse than average in audio and fuel system; average in electrical, paint/trim, body integrity, and body hardware; above average in climate and power equipment, and better than average everywhere else. It was rated overall as worse than average -- a step better than the C-Max. Ratings improved for 2014, no ratings much worse than average, only audio was below average, only fuel system and paint/trim was better than average, everything else was much better than average; and was overall better than average. It would be interesting to know why there is such a difference in the C-Max and Fusion Hybrid, particularly if there are differences in the powertrain -- though everything I've seen indicates that the powertrains are identical. At least one thought I've had is that the difference in rankings might be influenced by sales, that with more Fusions there are more good reviews to balance out the few bad reviews.

I suspect that two terms are being confused. What most people here seem to be talking about is that the Oxford White does not have a Pearl finish, rather than the clearcoat. It is the Pearl that makes paint matching so difficult, and impossible to do with touch up paint.

I wasn't suggesting to buy from them, just a good way to rent a C-Max to get a feel for it for a couple of days. Especially since you can treat it like a rental car. ;)

I did find one other possible option as I searched on the 'Net. It looks like in a few cities around the US, Hertz has a C-Max for sell, and you can rent the C-Max at $49 from their lot (though may be limited to 3 days).

Where did you find a C-Max to rent, and what was the rental rate?

Most states, as well as the federal government, now limit "clean vehicles" to those that can be driven in electric mode -- so normal hybrids are excluded. At least part of the reason for this, as I understand, is that there are now too many hybrids on the road, particularly in comparison with the money/costs that were allocated for these programs when they were put into the law. Even with plug-in hybrids, such as the Energi, they still typically only qualify for partial tax breaks (around half) as compared to electric only vehicles. On the flip side, as someone else mentioned on this forum, EVs and plug in hybrids are not holding their value well. For example, in searching my area for the C-Max, dealers seem to be asking around $2,000 less for the Energi than comparably equipped Hybrids -- despite the Energi costing more to buy new.

I'm considering buying a C-Max and have been reading through the site, trying to get a feel of what owners think about the car. I'm attracted to the C-Max largely because of the cargo space. I'm in no hurry to make any type of move, and am not even sure if I will buy a car at this time.