pureenergi

I know that at 80k miles, my Energi was still in good shape with brakes/rotors - 7mm F and 9mm rear, no issues with rotors. I rely heavily on 1-pedal driving, though, and am pretty good on brakes but don't drive like a granny either. I've heard people having issues with rotor surfaces but have had no such issues with mine.

That's good info about the person still driving it if she has an otherwise inoperable HVB battery for whatever reason. I'm just going from posts like this: "My service advisor said 3.8 kwh is the lower capacity warranty limit before they replace the battery pack." and this: "Dealer is telling me my reduced capacity is due to a faulty charger." and this: "Battery Warranty for Low Capacity (4.1 kWh)" - I hear what you're saying, but I think there's enough evidence in these posts that it's worth it for people suffering extreme degradation (I'd say over 50% is "extreme") to document their issues and work with their dealer to see what the cause is and see if they do indeed get warrantied or fixed without replacing the battery.

Adding a DP to this thread and hoping for the same experience as the OP. Just tested my battery that's showing serious signs of degradation after 80.1k miles, 52k of which were EV miles. Temperate climate - SF Bay Area in CA. I use a combination of Level 1 and Level 2 charging - the car is rated for both, and Ford sets it to charge at a conservative (3.3 kWh?) speed on Level 2 so I figure both are fine for the battery, (if Ford designers felt otherwise they would have limited the charge rate even further) but after my range started to really suffer and I understood more about Ford's inadequate air cooling and heating for the battery I've started to use Level 1 as much as possible to treat the battery as gingerly as possible. Range indicator at start is usually around 14 miles in 50-70 degree temps. From a full charge to a depleted battery I have gotten 3.3 to 3.6 kWh out of the battery on my last 2 tests in the Ford Mobile app. Just did one today - results below, about 60 degree temps at time of drive. I took it uphill so I wouldn't use much regen and really test just the battery capacity, not capacity+regen, so only got 6.2 miles of range before the ICE kicked in and I immediately stopped the test and turned the car off. I'm starting to monitor how long it takes to charge as well and may use a Killawatt to measure total amount it can take in, but there's usually around a 10%(?) loss from energy used by the charger to energy stored in the battery on average so I'll factor that in. I'll try to test it every month to build a case for replacement. My reasons are: 1. Air cooled and not liquid cooled has a negative effect on battery life. Not sure how the battery is heated during cold weather while plugged in overnight but that could have an effect too - car is parked outside but temps almost never get below freezing, only a handful of times on road trips. 2. Over 50% battery degradation after 80k miles is a huge amount - I have 47% of my original 7.6kWh battery capacity if the 3.6kWh until empty is correct, and only 43% if my other test is correct - so anywhere from 43-47% of capacity remaining after 80k miles. 3. The car is a brick if the HVB dies - I have to spend $9k to get my car to move if the battery dies, whereas a C-Max hybrid or plain ICE would be able to keep going with a cheaper or free repair. If I have to pay $9k for a new battery, my car is essentially totaled since the battery will cost more than the blue book value.

I did mine last year for the first time since I got the car 7 years ago. I don't know if I'd do it again myself but eventually I'll forget how hard it is and try it again. Between that and pulling and replacing the fuse that fixes the Audio Off bug the underside of the passenger dash and I are old friends by now.

Yes, of course, kWh, I thank the internet for correcting me on every typo and every shorthand I have ever used. I don't know if it was the Aloha spirit that led to that owner getting their battery replaced or the 1 bar/stall/lag issue, but there's one. It's possible that user is the same as the ones I see on Reddit, but there's at least 1 more if it's not them, and a story about a service manager talking about the threshold for replacement. If I'm at 3.3 kWh out of the original 7.6, that's 43.4% - below 50%, in a temperate climate that never sees freezing weather and maybe gets 100 degree weather once every 2 years. I think there's a reasonable case to be made for replacement, but I guess we'll see. As a little background, I'm one of the more loyal Ford guys you'll ever meet, and service and loyalty make a big difference to me. First car was a 1970 Mustang convertible, 2nd car was a 1992 Ford Escort, then I didn't have a car for a while, had a Scion, then came back to Ford for the Energi, first one was totaled in an accident with my GF driving (it did a great job protecting her!) and this is the 2nd Energi I've had. Also owned a '68 Mustang coupe. I'm considering the Mach-E or F-150 electric as my next car, so I clearly lean Ford. Reddit posts below:

In about a week, I will be one of those people. Owner of a 2013 Energi for 80k miles, 7 years and it will be replaced in a week after a leak was detected during an 80k mile service. If you have an Energi and have less than 100k miles, listen closely for noises and do your scheduled maintenance as you get close to 100k miles - if there's an issue, it seems like you'll be covered.

It was. The Energi forum is dead - long live the Energi forum! (in this thread, lol) There's also the C-Max Reddit group, but at only 700+ members, it's not as active as this.

I realized as much soon after I posted that. Excuse us Energi forum refugees as we mistakenly blunder into your conversations. ?? I know that using an Energi in Phoenix is asking for trouble - I'm in the CA Bay Area, so we usually don't see extreme temps. Any study from the Phoenix area is useful for worst case scenarios but can generally be considered to be an outlier, unless you live in Death Valley or part of the Middle East, then it can be considered a best case scenario! However, I'm looking at 3.3kw from full until depleted on a battery that was originally 7.6kw. There's a story on this forum of someone who got their Energi HVB replaced after thorough documentation of the battery degradation under the 8 year, 100k PHEV drivetrain warranty. One day before my 8 years, 100k is up (I'm at 80k) I hope to have the same experience. I have 50k miles on the HVB so I'd love to have them honor this warranty and get another 50k or more EV only out of the second battery.

What car is this based on, though? Hybrid C-Max or PHEV C-Max Energi? If you have a 300 mile EV, it's going to be charged roughly 1,000 times to reach 300k miles, under ideal conditions where the owner charges it up fully only when absolutely needed. As we all know, the number of full charges, along with how much cold and hot weather (especially hot, with the air cooling on the Energi battery) are the biggest thing that impact battery capacity. The C-Max Energi often has its battery fully charged daily, and rack up 15,000 potential charges to reach 300k miles. Of course, it's not often people charge it up twice in one day, so that would take 41 years, but I've certainly charged it fully twice in one day, sometimes 3 times.

Update on my issue: after having the car for a day and a half, service manager contacted me. It looks like the sound I heard was indeed the bearing/transfer shaft issue and they're replacing the entire transmission under warranty! It appears that being under 8 years/100,000 miles with the extended coverage on the Energi was what made the difference. It should be replaced with the current (mid 2015 and later) HF35 transmission. Should take about a week to get the part and get it installed. In retrospect, getting the first gen (2013 MY) of this new transmission was a risk, but I knew it wasn't an entirely new design, just an evolution of the earlier design so I thought I'd be good. I vaguely remember the extended plug in hybrid warranty powertrain coverage being an incentive to buy, and it looks like I wasn't wrong. This service experience makes me more likely to look at a new Mach-E as my next car, I'll tell you that . . . definitely heard from Tesla owners that the service experience is awful.

I do, I mentioned above that I brought it in for a grinding sound that I thought was coming from brakes and they found the tranny leaking. It's sort of a whispery SSSSHT-SSSSHHT-SSSHT as I accel and decel but does not exist while coasting or stationary. The sound feels new, as I don't remember hearing it before, so hopefully if they have it open for the RTV issue they check for that as well, but either way I have a (new to me) sound and I've owned the car since 2013. I've only heard clunks at times when shifting from R to L or D but that may just be sound from the shifter.

Yeah, I was 99% sure that it would have to be pulled to check that. I pulled up to the shop this morning with a long, detailed note in Apple Notes with the TSBs for both issues and photos from this thread and a copy of the warranty PDF that details the 8 year, 80k coverage for the "Transmission Assembly (Plug-in Hybrid vehicles only)" and RTV sealant sure seems to me like a part of that, (warranty guide attached) but we'll see. I showed the check-in advisor at the shop (not my normal advisor) everything in the note and he said "let's not get ahead of ourselves" and I laughed and explained my concern that I just wanted to make sure it wasn't the worst issue. I did point out the warranty coverage and the TSBs so at least they know I've done some research but I'll report back either way. 13hybwa2e.pdf

The thing about that 276lb "passenger" is that not only can that passenger get you 20 miles of range (when new) that passenger sucks up more regen than the standard hybrid battery so you can do 1-pedal driving far more often. You get a higher % of your energy back than with the regular battery. And that battery eliminated a lot of cold starts and around-town ICE driving which is harder on the engine. You can have a car like mine that has 80,000 miles but only 30,000 miles so in theory our powertrains should last much longer, but in reality it may just be the engine - both of our transmissions seem to suffer from the transfer shaft issue. And that battery qualified the car for a significant federal and CA state (in my case) EV rebate and got me about 5(?) years of HOV lane usage as a solo driver in CA, so there's that too. 100% would do again!

I scheduled an appointment to leave the car tomorrow for a full day and will update with what I find. After reading about all this, I don't want to take any chances. Fingers crossed it's just the RTV sealant, but I do (and my girlfriend rode with me to confirm) hear a hissing/grinding/(girlfriend described it as the sound of sucking through a straw) sound on accel and decel but not on coasting, and does seem more pronounced around 30-40mph. I'll make sure if they have it open to check that seal that they check for the grinding/thumping/rubbing issue. Maybe I have the RTV sealant leak and an early stage version of the worse issue? Either way, hopefully I'll know soon.

Hey everyone, thanks for this very detailed thread and it's great to be back again but I'm here for all the wrong reasons: just took my 2013 Energi (purchased 6/1/2013 so probably affected by the RTV sealant issue) in to the original Ford dealer for an 80k mile service. They noted a transmission leak that I'm now reading here might end up being very serious. I couldn't leave the car all day so I had them top up the fluid and said I'd schedule it when I could bring the car in and leave it for a day. Car has 80k miles, of which 52,000 are EV miles and 11300 are regen miles. I brought the car in to my service center about what I thought was a grinding noise from the brakes but now I'm reading may be the "thumping, rubbing, grinding" issue. They found no brake issues today. I'm trying to prepare for the worst - I'll know more after I leave it with them for a day though. I guess I'm currently in the "bargaining" stage of grief and loss, so I'm thinking: • Can't I just keep adding transmission fluid? YouTube video on how to change C-Max trans fluid • How will I know when fluid is low? I guess I can monitor trans fluid temps and keep extra in the car and a tube and an allen wrench to be able to add more, but this isn't a good solution for road trips . . . • If my issue is the TSB regarding RTV sealant failure (since I don't have transmission noise that I can tell) what have people paid for out of warranty service for this, given that you have to remove engine and trans to do it? RTV Sealant TSB I'm hoping that the repair doesn't get up to the $7,000 repair cost range, because that could end up in some hard decisions being made . . . thanks for any help and I'll add my experience of what the actual issue is when I can leave it with my dealer for a day. (EDIT: Taking it in today and leaving it for at least a day, I'll report back on what they find)

OK, seems like high inflation pressures (at least to the max sidewall) don't have an effect here. I'm at 48 right now out of respect for the tire plug (looks like they took the tire off the rim so I hope it's a mushroom plug from the inside) and taking a ~500 mile round trip road trip this weekend. I ended up rotating the tires myself in the driveway to put the 4/32s rear tires up front and the 2-3/32nds front tires in back. This should allow me to get to the next time Costco has the Michelin deal (in 2 months) and when it starts to get rainy here in NorCal and I will really want new tires. Had a fun time doing it, and made myself a nice wooden jack puck to fit around the pinch weld. To avoid crossposting here's the link: http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/493-tire-rotation/?p=59891

I just rotated tires with the criss-cross rear to front pattern by only lifting 2 wheels at a time in 3 steps. This is the first and probably only time I will do it, as Costco will be selling me their Michelin Energy Savers when their next sale rolls around in a couple months and rotating for me. 1. Jack up one side, move front to rear and rear to front 2. Jack up other side, do the same 3. Jack up front from both sides, swap the tires across I don't have a flat enough driveway or equipment to get all 4 wheels up. This takes a little longer, but feels a little safer. Standard safety precautions were followed - wheel chocks, I used jack stands in addition to the jacks (one heavy floor jack, one scissor jack) and put an old wheel/tire under the middle of each side of the car in case jacks failed. I made a sweet jacking puck from a wood block where each corner fits between the "castles" on the floor jack to prevent slipping and sliding, and I cut a groove with a Sawzall in the middle to fit around the pinch weld. Cut across the grain to prevent cracking. Worked perfectly - better than a polyurethane puck IMHO - and free with scrap wood. People who have jacked up the car before will recognize the "key" that got cut into the wood where there's a bulge in the pinch weld in back.

I don't doubt your personal experience, but the general consensus runs toward highly inflated and hyper inflated tires wearing faster at the center. Now, some tires have a layer under the tread that flattens out the tire even at higher pressure - not sure if ours do or not. Also, more high speed operation might be causing your tires to be flatter and less "crowned" at speed than mine are around city streets with lots of stop and go. What I know for sure is your trips and driving style must be vastly different than mine. In 2 years, 3 months I have only put 26k miles on the car, and yours has 106k. I'm sure you do a lot more freeway driving where the car is neither accelerating or decelerating as often or with as much force as my car. That alone probably explains the difference in tire wear.

I'm going to do the original Energy Savers with the Costco deal towards the end of the month so I get the maximum out of the ones I have on there now. They truly do have class-leading LRR characteristics and while they are not the shortest stopping distance in the wet, they aren't awful and I've had no issues. They still seem to be the best tires for what this car is supposed to be, although I seriously considered the Pirelli P7s and the Michelin Premier A/S. As for what caused me the faster tire wear, I have to emphasize that I'm a serious E-leadfoot around town, generally using the EV-only acceleration to full advantage to get around city traffic and keeping it in L for relatively fast stops while still maximizing regen. I'm much more aggressive on the acceleration part of it than the braking - I'm always trying to anticipate and maximize regen. Once the gas engine kicks in, I'm a hyper miler. I also run max sidewall pressure (52psi) usually, only going back down to regular PSI after the car gets serviced and the shop sets it to the lower pressure. I leave it that way to even out tread wear, but I'll try to do it more with this new set of tires - run the lower pressure around town and only run the tire pressure high for long trips. From what I have read on hypermiling forums, there is still higher tread wear in the center of the tire when you're running max pressure or over inflating, so this might have something to do with my "outlier" treadwear. So, I'll keep the pressure normal except for long trips, although I'm still going to use the e-acceleration to its fullest, and then inflate to max sidewall psi only for long trips.

I'm looking at new tires at only 26.8k miles (which is very strange given others' experiences here) for a few reasons, and looking for advice on whether you would replace right now or wait a few months. I think my high % of local driving on EV only (98.7 mpg total is a lot of EV driving) and being an EV lead foot around town contribute to this premature tire wear. I'm probably going to go with the original Michelins that are available at my local Costco with a $70/4 discount this month. A few notes: 1. I just came back from a long road trip from Oakland to Portland and back over Labor Day weekend and got a nail in a tire causing a slow leak. I've always noticed this happens more frequently as the tire nears time for replacement. 2. Front tires are about 2/32s, rear 4/32s. Nail hole was plugged in driver's rear tire, so that makes me a little more wary about rotating this one to the front - don't trust plugs as much on a front tire that is pretty worn out. 3. Rainy winter coming in CA and another road trip in October (but there shouldn't be rain on this trip - just going to Central Coast) 4. I like to run the pressure up to max sidewall pressure, at least for long road trips, and that plug + max PSI don't give me as much confidence as an unplugged tire. So, would you replace now? Going with the Michelins for the general Costco reasons (plus credit on my Costco AmEx) and the $70 sale that ends Sept. 30th. Thanks, Joe