MaxHeadroom

I've posted a picture off of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_C-Max attached. which shows somebody (fake news???) is saying the C-Max is being made in MX now. Non-hybrid version like Europe has now. I guess it wouldn't be the first time Wikipedia got attacked, if this isn't true. Before we inform Wikipedia that this is wrong, I'd like to make sure they aren't really making it in MX ! Just to be sure. Anybody know?

Mine is a 2015, which is EPA-rated lower than the new '19 RAV4 Hybrid. You really can't compare the C-Max directly to a RAV4 that much, since it's heavier with AWD as well. I'm thinking about starting a thread as to why the 2017/18 C-Max gets better MPG and is faster 0-60 as well than a 2016 or prior C-Max.

The RAV4 has better MPG than the C-Max, which is remarkable considering it's AWD and heavier, with higher drag, more ground clearance. I guess that's newer tech at work, and Toyota knows what they are doing. Price is very reasonable for what it is. Only $27k for the base RAV4 Hybrid.

One easy way to gain an estimated +0.2 to +0.4 MPG is to use a special engine oil I found recently. Eneos Racing Street (RS) 0w-20, a qualified API SN GF-5 oil I got from Amazon. What makes it different than, say, a typical 0w-20 like Mobil1 AFE 0w-20: Friction Modifier (reducer): Eneos has 900 ppm moly; Mobil1 has 88 ppm moly.Viscous Friction reduction: Eneos has a KV40 of 29 cSt; Mobil1 is 45 cSt.Both are full synthetic. Eneos's base oil is all Group3+ (like Pennzoil Platinum's PurePlus base oil), while Mobil1's base oils is about half PAO, half Group3.Both oils have the same, usual, typical HTHS 2.7, which indicates how much hydrodynamic lubrication conditions happen in an engine, and its important to be at 2.7 here, kind of an important number which both oils have.I know the word 'racing' is in the name, next to the word 'street', yet the API SN GF-5 rating means this is a fully qualified street engine oil. More moly (Molybdenum compounds) is actually quite protective (wear) as well as reducing friction, and Eneos has a lot more. Several Japanese oil formulators like Eneos take a high-moly approach for some unknown reason, getting more friction benefits than just the minimal necessary to pass the certification specifications. Another story there I won't go into. The difference in viscosity (KV40 for example) will help an engine during cold-cool-warm operation to get better MPG via less viscous friction drag. Especially pronounced in the winter, yet will help in summer too. Base oil is of very good quality & performance, as Group3+ is a great performer, very similar to Mobil1 going with half PAO, half Group3 (note their Group3 is not Group3+). Eneos Racing Street 0w-20 does cost more. I ordered a 6-pack from Amazon and it was $66, no tax, no shipping (Prime). Not cheap, I know. Only for hypermilers or somebody who really values extra MPG here. Mobil1 AFE 0w20 at about $5 per quart in big jug is the bargain at Walmart, yet without all that moly & better viscosity.

You'd think it would be bigger than just 3 times more than the regular hybrid one. 7.6 kWH vs. 1.4 kWH is 1/5 as much storage. Also, having an Energi version means you have to haul around a 272 lb mass back there, as heavy as some mother-in-laws.... whereas a regular hybrid's smaller pack is only 76 lbs for comparison. Of course, there are other reasons to ***maybe*** want an Energi version, another subject entirely I know. https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/02/f19/batteryC-Max8698.pdf https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/02/f19/batteryC-Max3817.pdf

Plus 3 Golfer, that does sound reasonable. .... I think I can square that with the forces on the teeth. ....The engine cranking torque would be the difference between the reaction torque on the planet gear teeth from the ring gear, and the torque from the sun gear. That difference applied to the crankshaft would be the sun gear motor bearing's shearing torque, in steady state (zero angular acceleration times). In other words, the sun gear is resisting movement to some extent, not a large resistance, and I can agree it won't be much, and not enough to crank the engine. (Free body diagram on a planet gear would do it.) I guess everything gets oiled (Mercon LV) in there, right? Wonder what Ford is trying to do with their "run the engine once a day" thing. I'd run a front wheels dolly, not flat towing. Anyway, I noticed at least one model year of the Prius (same ring/planet/sun engine/motor layout) does NOT allow flat towing. Toyota doesn't like it.

OK, further understanding (maybe!?): With the ignition completely Off, no regen action happens, and it appears the engine & sun gear motor free-wheel. All I can really analyze here, is that the forces on the planet gear teeth balance in non-accelerating kinematic motion, meaning the force from the ring gear on the planet teeth must equal the sum of the forces on the sun side of the planet, and the crankshaft's planet carrier force. Big question is does this allow motion of planet carrier or sun gear? One clue from the Owner's Manual: Notice they say to start the car once a day. I guess this means some fluid gets lubricated. But this ignores the high number of miles a motorhome can travel in a day. You'd think the transmission fluid can wet the teeth OK during flat towing, even without the pump running.

You're right. It does look like holding the brake down while shifting to N means nothing relevant here to understanding the internal mechanics of flat towing. I just read some RV forum where somebody flat towed behind a motor home, followed all the Owner's Manual instructions correctly, and then had a transmission failure, which Ford at first said they would not cover because of "Improper flat towing.". The C-Max owner got the state attorney general to force Ford to grant warranty coverage since the Owner's Manual says you CAN flat tow. .... Its crappy how car makers, & not just Ford, have to be dragged kicking as screaming to cover warranty repairs sometimes!!! She paid nearly $6.000 to for dealership repairs on it. I think it may have exacerbated the early 2013 weakness (recall) of the some transmission bearings. Also, some others have reported a depleted 12v battery after flat towing. You would think the 12v battery would be recharged. Maybe just the early models did this??? I'm wondering if the ring gear motor acts gets into regen braking mode when flat towing???? And/or, does the sun gear motor go into generator mode when in Neutral like this?

Here is what I know (correct if wrong): 1. As the front wheels turn, the ring gear and a motor turns. 2. That turns the planet gears, and may cause the engine to turn over a little since the the sun gear's motor may not be locked down(???). So I'm not sure if the planet carrier moves (engine turns over slowly). When being driven, I know the sun gear must whir around in the opposite direction of the ring gear (ring gear tied to the road) when the engine is still (off). 3. Transmission fluid pump only runs when the engine is running, which is why the ENERGi version has an auxiliary oil pump since it has to run 20 miles in EV mode. MIne is a non-ENERGi hybrid. So, are all the gears & bearings getting fluid?

Just got back from a vacation (didn't take the C-Max, as my '18 Equinox gets the same highway MPG!!). I saw a large motorhome flat towing a C-Max. Nice car to put behind a motorhome, although I'd prefer something under 3,000 lbs back there, personally. Our C-Max is 3,600 lbs, a little heavy, not awful I guess. But I digress. It got me thinking. 1. Is flat towing allowed? Yes, Owner's Manual says its fine, and gives a procedure. 2. What happens in the transmission and even the engine crankshaft? Also, I noticed some particular steps you gotta take, like "Hold the brake down while shifting to N." (see below) ....hmmmm, clues, yet I'm not sure what is turning among the ring gear (motor), planet carrier (engine), and sun gear (motor)?. There aren't any clutches to stop anything from turning, right??? Some hybrid systems will disconnect (declutch stuff, I know, but not ours AFAIK. Here is the Owner's Manual Instructions: Note the part that says, after you turn the car completely ON, then hold the brake down and shift into N. What does that do?

Offset is measured from the center of the wheel and has nothing to do with the wheel width. Your 50mm offset wheels work well because they are 5mm less than the OEM wheel's 55mm offset, which means your tire tread moves 5mm outward, which exactly matches the (225-215)/2 mm = 5 mm tire width difference when using non-OEM-size 215mm tires. ... I used 48 mm offset wheels with the 215 mm tires, so my tires actually stick out (toward fender) by an extra 2 mm, which is very small. Actually, the small 2 mm outward movement makes the tires look like they fit better in their anyway, so the 215 mm tires are fine with 48 mm offsets that come on many 17" wheels like I have.

When I went to install them, they were very skeptical they wouldn't rub. I turned the wheel with the old (almost bald OEM) tires on it, to get the worst case rubbing condition, and drove one of the front tires up a bit on a curb to compress the suspension some. Then I measured again and I'm not absolutely sure they wouldn't rub. I returned them without putting them on. Man its close with 225/55-17 tires. I do have a set of snow tires (Mich X-Ice3's) at 215/55-17, on 48 mm offset wheels (OEM wheels are 55 mm), and they fit very well. Here is the diff in height (radius) change with the possible tire options: 225/50-17: Zero, baseline original. 215/55-17: 1/4" taller, really should have a diff offset tire, something like 48 mm instead of the stock 55 mm. This works, great for winter. 225/55-17: 1/2" taller, probably not a good idea after all. Very close to rubbing the inner plastic fender stuff, may indeed rub. I'm guessing snow chains would add about 1/3" in radius, likely about all she'll take.

Assuming the thread title isn't a misprint, by coincidence I did just get new 225/55R17 tires by Fedex today. Ordered from Walmart's website. LionHart extremely cheapo ones. .... The "55" aspect ratio, instead of stock "50" will raise the car by 1/2", actually 5% of 225mm, which is 11.3 mm = 0.44 inches to be exact. It looks like they will fit OK, and I know I'm taking a chance of rubbing here if they are too big. I'm about to see when I get them installed in the weeks ahead. The load rating on these is 101 vs. 93 stock, so that's a little extra margin. And these LionHarts have a high speed rating, so they should hold together. Also a 49 psi max pressure leaves some room. I'll probably run them at 40 psi for this car, which has a placard on the door jam of 38 psi.

Other 2013 models have gotten about 4 quarts to drain out. I suspect, like my own 2015 model, that the factory didn't put in enough to be full. Its probably not that sensitive to slightly lower levels anyway, so I guess no big deal if its up to about a quart low or so.... I still have yet to top mine off a bit. I thought I'd wait for winter tire changeover in October when I have the whole car jacked up in the air. (I drained out 3.5 qts and put 4.0 qts back in, so I guess its OK for now.)

That picture doesn't show it as a hexagonal head bolt which it is, but its in the right position. ... Also, it has a small plastic washer which you can add a very thin layer of RTV sealant to for extra sealing when you tighten it down.

I recommend to anyone who has a C-Max to at least top it off after its a year old or so. I still suspect the factory workers under-filled mine a bit. Certainly check for red fluid leaks underneath every time you change the oil and have the lower ground shield thingie off. Then, changing it is so easy that you can replace whatever drains out every 100,000 miles instead of going 150,000 miles with a double-flush. The idea is to replace the extreme-pressure (EP) additives in there as they age and chemically break down, and a big gulp of fresh fluid every 100,000 miles keeps those anti-wear addtives replaced nicely. cmax-nynj: On cleaning out the gear oil container before putting in Mercon LV, I don't think you have to. About a half teaspon remains stuck in the bottle, not much. obob: Mustard-Ketchup bottle would work, except I noticed the gear oil bottle was very flexible and tough, allowing one to get it empty without too much trouble. A Mustard-Ketchup bottle might be too rigid(??). ... Anything with a good pointed tip should be OK I guess. You can still attach a small tube on the tip that fits in the Level Plug hole if you want to. So far, I think I have noticed cooler transmission fluid temperature (TFT), by about 5 degrees or so cooler, as far as I can tell. Therefore, 5 degrees is about the difference 4 quarts put in to replace 3.5 quarts drained. Likely the factory never filled it up all the way, but I guess a few degrees difference doesn't mean much.

I checked both manuals (PDF files on the web), and Ford did make a funny change from 2013 to 2015 models. 2015 says 4.8 qts, and 2013 says 5.7, which is actually consistent with how much I drained out of my 2015-model vs. others who have reported on 2013-model drains. The 2013 drains have been about a quart higher than what I drained out. Maybe they changed a part somewhere, a casting, something internal, which changes the fluid capacity(??). Dunno. I put in about 1 quart less than stated official capacity, so I guess with what old fluid was stuck in there, I'm at least very close to full. I'll check & top off later of course.

I just checked, and noticed the 2013 C-Max owner's manual lists the transmission fluid capacity at 5.7 quarts, and the 2015 at 4.8 quarts, a difference which would explain why I drained out 3.5 quarts but the other reports from others here were more (ranged from 4.2 qts drained to 5 or so, on earlier 2013 models). Maybe just getting out 3.5 quarts on mine isn't too unusual for a 2015 model. However, after buying exactly 4 quarts of Motorcraft Mercon LV, I just put in 4 quarts, and it didn't fill it up!!! I thought it would, since I drained out 3.5 quarts. It was not full before I drained, and it still isn't quite full I guess. .... Temperature was about 80 degrees F, which is within the range of 68 deg F to 104 deg F as the desired fill temperature. I'll let everything flow around in there for a while and check it & top it off later. I figure I have more than what Ford gave me at the factory anyway!!! (no leaks, really clean all around the seams and all bolts, so I blame the factory knuckleheads for underfilling it). As mentioned earlier, transmission fluid temperature was observed to be 179 deg F in a hot-ish long trip with the old factory fill load, so its carrying away enough heat even running a bit low, and its got more in there now. Proving that its not really that sensitive to being a quart or more low. Little note about how to get fresh fluid in there: I don't think you have to use plastic tubing like others have used on this task. I just literally stuck a bottle tip in the Level Plug hole and squirted it all in, squeezing and mangling a differential oil container, but it worked fine with very little spillage (like only drops spilled). .... I took the front driver side tire off (with the entire car on jack stands for leveling the whole body), removed the Level Plug (easy), and jammed the differential fluid bottle in there, with of course Mercon LV put inside the diff bottle. (Do remember to empty any oil out of the differential oil bottle, and only use Mercon LV) Here is the bottle I used:

ptjones and Plus 3 Golfer really know their C-Maxes! I used a FORScan phone app with an ELM327 Bluetooth connection to read a maximum observed transmissin fluid temperature of 179 F, about matching their temperatures. One can conclude that transmission fluid is full enough in there based on temperature, I'm convinced, since low fluid means your temperatures will get high. I was changing the oil yesterday (Pennzoil Platinum 0w20 with a MicroGreen oil filter) at the 65,000 mile point, with a tire rotation, and curiosity got the better of me. After I took the left front wheel off, I noticed the transmission level plug bolt just staring at me, calling my name, daring me to check the level. I then wrenched the level plug off, quite easily, very low torque, as if it was barely on there, with the car level since the entire car was on jack stands. No evidence of the red fluid leaking out anywhere, good news. No fluid came out of the level plug, which is OK, and the ambient temperature was about 100 F (drove it earlier; and hot summer day), close to the 40 C temperature to check the level at. Was it low a bit? I drained it out and got 3.5 quarts out, which is short of the spec (Owner's Manual) capacity of 4.8 quarts. A youtube video showed somebody got 4.2 qts out by comparison..... I had the level plug open to let air in as I drained it out to help some. .....OK, some may be stuck in there, unavailable, or maybe the factory underfilled by a little. (I wonder if the factory procedures actually top it off after driving it a few minutes to get the air out of the internal volume.???) Actually underfilling may have very little detrimental effect, since my observed FORScan temperature was 179 F in some hot-ish driving, nothing bad there. I'll bet there is some tolerance to over-or-under-filling the thing. As long as some is in there hitting the planetary gearset teeth, etc., then its lubed at least. Anyway, a small amount of RTV silicone sealant on the drain plug threads and I carefully allen-wrenched the small non-magnetic drain plug back in. There are a number of after-market Mercon LV type bottles available, but I decided to stick with exactly Motorcraft Mercon LV per spec, since I might be mixing some of the old Mercon LV in there with new Mercon LV and want full chemical and seal-swell compatibility guaranteed. I'll fill it tomorrow probably, and am anxious to see how much fluid it takes back. I'll do the minute driving thing to get it all circulated and then top it off again.

Nice, in Kentucky. I guess it makes sense to make them there, because the Ford Escapes made in Russia, China, and Spain plants probably doesn't get the Hybrid powertrain, and is not near the Hybrid powertrain supply lines. Maybe some inventory clearance sales on C-Maxes are imminent. They have always sold slowly, and now they seem positively contrarian in this age of $2.70/gallon gasoline and AWD SUV's and PU's selling like hotcakes.

Cool! Since Ford Fusion Hybrids (at least taxis & cop cars, maybe consumer cars too) will still be produced for a year or two more from now, I'm wondering if the Escape Hybrid will simply use a copy of the tried-and-true C-Max powertrain(?). They had better beat the Pacifica Hybrid's gasoline hybrid MPG, which is an EPA combined city/highway = 32 MPG using a similar planetary gearset CVT like the CMax-Fusion & Prius use.

True, the C-Max shares used body parts (like my own....) with a lot of Ford Focus's. Good news there. The powertrain will live on a couple more years at least in Fusions, and possibly Ford Transit Connect NYC taxis. Fusions are now available for police car fleets and taxi fleets too.

ptjones, Yes, maybe no need to worry about checking the level annually as Ford wants. Mercon LV is red, making it kinda easy to spot seeping out from the seals I'd assume. What's the hottest temperature you've ever seen on the the ScanGauge? I've got an app on my phone and with a bluetooth OBDII port adaptor, etc., to take a look at temperatures. I could hit it hard going up some mountains in some warm ambient temperatures and see what temperatures I see. I want to establish a baseline maximum acceptable temperature, of course below where the sensor warning happens.

Anybody know where the HF35 fluid goes in? I guess we could use the Leveling Plug, yet I think I can see and get to a bolt on the lower side top of the transmission, IF that is the fill hole:

About this HF35 transmission: Anybody know if there is a magnet in there somewhere to grab the loose iron particles from the new gears and long-term wear? ( In differentials, the drain plug is often magnetic.) Drain plug magnetic here? Anybody know if there is a fluid filter somewhere inside (likely not serviceable, but I guess it could catch the big chunks). Odd story, this person's C-Max HF35 transmission somehow survived with very little fluid: http://theotherpta.com/a-strange-lesson-about-the-durability-of-the-ford-cmax-transmission/ "The CMax had been driven just over 1,000 miles during extreme heat with a transmission that had next to no fluid in it. " Its worth noting again here that our C-Max has a temperature sensor in the tranny to warn us of problems. Low fluid, then you get high temperature, its as simple as that. That should make us worry less. Still, it would be nice to get the iron dust out by changing fluid, for lower wear. I've got 65,000 miles & have never checked the level! My bad. I should at least look for leaks along the bolts and seams. Ford says we should check the transmission level once a year or 10k miles, whichever comes first. And, who knows where we can get really geeky-cryptic, but cool, shirts to puzzle everybody about? HF35 shirt: