CNCGeek

I think that the comparison is more rural freeway vs urban surface streets. Because freeways in cities have congestion but a freeway in the middle if nowhere will have those high speed fuel sucking long stretches...

I agree - the article also noted:

"But for drivers in Middle America who regularly drive faster than 62 mph, the benefits of a hybrid vehicle are diminished."

I tend to take surface streets when I can, but the freeway is just too good to pass up sometimes - hybrids sort of flip the conventional wisdom about fuel economy on it's head when it comes to city/hwy mpg.

I have been constantly seeing ads on MSNBC.  However it could be regional with our local cable company doing the inserts.

Good point, I may not be in the right demographic to see their ads.

If you have AAA, you may be able to get a discount on the weathertech mats.

When I bought mine several months ago the salesman said that they had just had a class from a Ford rep on the C-max, and I suspect that is standard for Ford to get their sales people up to speed on a new car.  Unfortunately my salesperson was a better salesman than student and knew less about the car than I did.  He did know some of the details on the C-max, but was not as well prepared for questions about the hybrid system.  I'd guess that most sales people get up to speed as they get customers asking the same questions over and over, nobody wants to say "I don't know" more than once.  Most early adopters are going to have done some research though, which makes the questions more difficult too, but we have few of them.

As for ads, I recall seeing the cartoon one a month ago or so, but none since.  I think Ford may be trying to re-formulate an approach after the reviews and class action lawsuit for not meeting EPA estimates, it will be hard to shrug that off.  Hopefully it will be less of an issue as the weather warms up and fuel economy gets better - they should have released the C-max in the spring.

A guy approached my at the YMCA and asked how I liked my C-Max.. I told him i liked it, but was having some electronic issues. His response "I'm the Long Lewis Ford service manager, bring it on in". I don't think I will have any dealer issues in the future.

LOL, sure that was not his "stage" name? :happy feet:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml

 

I sympathize with those not getting the mileage they expected.  I mean, we buy a car based in part on the advertised mileage.  But, the advertised mileage "is for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary."

 

The blame should not fall on drivers ( except for horrible speeders and lead-foots), but with the EPA tests, especially highway. The MAX speed for the highway test is 60 mph. The average is about 48 mph!  Link above. So, one can only realistically hope to get 47 mpg highway if one drives like that on the highway, which obviously is not a realistic way to drive on a freeway.

 

So the fact that the Cmax does not get EPA advertised mileage on the highway is not actually surprising. But it is frustrating for the average consumer who thinks the EPA numbers should reflect the way people actually drive on the highway.  Ford doesn't design the test, so it's not really anything they did wrong - just a poor system.

 

I'm still waiting for my Energi to arrive, and although I would be thrilled to get the EPA numbers, I know that they are obtained under very different conditions than I drive my car, so I don't actually expect them.

 

I totally agree with those who have made the point that grill covers should not be needed to improve mileage. If they are that useful to mileage, they should have been designed into the car.  I have to wonder just how consistently they do improve mileage, given that such a simple device was not engineered into the car.

I saw this linked in another post - looks like the EPA does not share our concern about their testing protocols.

I also agree with you regarding the grill covers.  I think they could have made the slats more aerodynamic which would have improved fuel economy.  Take a peek inside the grill sometime - it is just a box with no apparent outlet unless the vents are open.  Initially I was pretty excited that there was a way to boost fuel economy by 10% with the covers, but after thinking about it for a while I decided to wait and see.  I do however have a pretty good idea on how to make a stealthy cover for about $25 in parts from Home Depot though, so I may just make one for the hell of it :D

I am surprised this got pinned - It does not seem to be a chronic problem here and in fact may discourage folks from posting if they think they will get flamed for not reading the manual.  That is what ruins good forums IMHO - this one is too small to have problems like that yet.  I agree that there are many posts where RTM would help, but considering that this is a forum (a place where people ask and answer questions, and just discuss stuff) - and since it has been a decade since my ISP charged by the Kb, I'd say live and let live.  Usually things will pretty quickly be pointed out to be in the manual, and that's that.  Contributing to the questions is that the manual is lacking (well that is being nice).  It breezes over some subjects and searching the index can almost require a thesaurus - well that may be an exaggeration but not too much.

My C-Max has refused to move more than once after it was parked facing "down-hill" in a parking structure. I found that pulling on the hand break and releasing it again returned operation to normal.

I often (most always) set the parking brake when I park, so maybe that has something to do with the programming for the Hill Climb Assist (maybe the car will utilize the HCA even if the car does not sense a hill, but the parking brake was applied when it was parked - but that could contradict the manual).  FWIW, I have not observed the original behavior in the past month, but I have often (couple times a week) observed the pause between putting the pedal down in reverse and actual movement, but that is something I am getting used to.  The pause however is not the same as the original problem, the pause is brief and it starts moving just as the thought that there could be a problem sets in.

Mine looks the same as yours.  Probably could have been cleaned up a little to help further dampen noise, but I guess it is what it is...

Thanks, good to know that I am not missing a cover.  I've cleaned up the insulation around it a bit, it should be fine as long as I don't kick it with my muddy boots - that won't happen until I get some good floor trays though :D

Toyota, Honda, and Nissan all make cars in America.  So does BMW, Volkswagen and Mercedes.  Hyundai/Kia do too.

 

My 1999 Honda Valkyrie sported more American content than the equivalent Harley Davidsons of that time. No matter where the CEO gets his mail, "Made in USA" does not have to mean Ford & Chevy.

I was responding to the broadly stated "US made" in your original post, which would also cover those "Made in the USA" in your second post, but I believe I understand your viewpoint now.

One other observation--I got a "normal" voltage at the 12v outlet by the cup holder in the front of the car.  This was after the car had been sitting for more than 24 hours and without putting the car in assessary mode or starting it.  I didn't expect to get a voltage there based on posts on this site indicating that outlet shut off after a short time after the can is shut down.

I have also noticed this, it does not shut off.

Mayday Jay, I can sympathize with the problem.  In my experience the average mpg (after I reset the lifetime) went up to around 42mpg for the first thousand miles or so and then dropped down to around 39-40 as the weather got colder - all in mixed driving.  35mpg is very poor, and since you are in FL where the weather should be warmer, you may want to check with your dealer - I recall a post here about a fusion owner who was getting poor economy and they found the plugs were fouled so it is at least worth checking if something is amiss (that owner had other symptoms aside from poor fuel economy however).

It has also been mentioned before, and there are many posts about how the EPA tests are flawed (especially highway ratings) when comparing to real world driving, and I have not read many (any?) posts defending the tests.  Trying to get the rated mpg therefore seems like chasing a dream.  Ford pushing the EPA number to highlight the fuel economy in their advertising is the only problem I see (for them), since it may reduce owner loyalty if people feel deceived, and has already led to a class action lawsuit which will likely help nobody.  But to be fair all manufactures do the same thing, it is just in hybrids where it stands out.  That said, I do like my C-max , and it has impressed me in some ways, but I have come to expect less fuel economy than when I purchased it. 

I just checked my battery using the front jumping points, reads 12.36v now, after several days of driving with no problems since the first one.  I did notice while checking the voltage that the panel cover for the battery connections and fuses had been removed.  When I looked at it previously I guess it did not register that there should be a cover on the panel, or I just did not look well enough.  I know I did not remove it, so I am now suspect if they had some issues with this at the dealer.  They may have just charged it up though, or jumped it which is probably pretty common at dealers.

I could be wrong but my understanding is the battery pack in the C-Max is considered to be inside the car and the leaf isn't.

 

I mean, that the C-Max can use air conditioned cooled interior air for thermal management and the leaf doesn't have access to the cooled air.

That makes sense, what concerned me about it venting inside the car however is that with the windows up in the summer, temps could get above 140deg F which is where the HV battery will be disabled to protect it from overheating (according to page 4 here).

This is really cool, I have a simple ODBII reader which I use with Torque (Android), but the VCDS looks awesome.  Regarding the battery charge % you noted, did that appear to be for the HV battery or the 12v battery?  I'm asking because I am curious to know if there a way to get the actual HV battery capacity so it can be tracked over time.

I picked up one of these for $50 at Home Depot:

http://www.blackanddecker.com/power-tools/JUS350B.aspx

It is certainly overkill, but I like having something which will work with my other vehicle and my family's cars too.  Jumping the C-max is a bit strange, as soon as I connected it, the car woke up, I was going to just let it sit there with the key on and not running since it seems that the 12v system will just charge off the HV battery (in fact once it woke up I took the booster off within a minute and it had no further problems).  The "hop" which was mentioned is much more descriptive than jump starting - it seems like it takes very little to get it going - and seems that the engine does not have to run at all to get it going again.  It did spit out some error about mykey and said max speed limited to 80mph briefly and then it got it's bearings and all the warnings cleared.  Since the HV battery was a bit low I took it out for a drive and have driven it several times since.  The voltage at the front was 5.5v when it died (forgot to check at the battery  - could not get to it anyway prior to jumping it). 

I think in my case the discharge could be due to accessories - I am not sure, but I do recall leaving a phone in the car charging on the 12V socket near the cup holders before this happened.  I had thought it would have powered down the outlet after some minutes, however that may not be the case.  The phone however should not have drawn off a huge amount of power - just a typical smartphone which was about 1/2 charged to begin with.  Likely it was the straw that broke the camels back though.

I agree the full charge cycles are also checking for the capacity.  It seems to me that on the C-max the gauge is relative to the last full charge/discharge cycle, but I am not sure on this since I have not had mine long enough to expect to see any drop in capacity.  On a hybrid it is not necessary to know how much battery capacity is left since you shouldn't get stranded, but not knowing it could also conceal degradation of the battery.  Some degradation of the battery is normal and expected, so does anyone know how to find our what the actual pack capacity is - is it available via the ODBII? 

I think monitoring the pack capacity could be valuable for comparison in different climates also.  The Leaf owners put together a lot of data on capacity loss relative to temps here.  The Leaf and the C-max have in common air cooled batteries (the Focus Hybrid and Volt are water cooled I believe), so it would be good to track our capacity loss over time to see how the C-max does.  Time will tell if the heat takes an unreasonable toll on our batteries, but I'm not sure how it would be detected by most people aside from a feeling that it was dropping out of EV sooner.

Thanks, that's a cool article - the linked ford doc is also full of info.  The battery was near where I thought it would be, but looks to be a lot harder to remove than I expected.  I had wanted to take out the battery and put it on a charger which is why I was hunting for it.  The manual gets pretty squishy about servicing or testing the battery though, or even disconnecting it which is strange.

Something off topic (related to the HV battery), but interesting in the Ford PDF which is linked in the article is this:

"Thermal Sensors — In the event the battery is exposed to extreme hot
ambient conditions and/or is being driven extremely aggressively with
compromised cooling, power limits will be employed to prevent overheating.
However, if the battery is in use and does become too hot, contactors will
be opened and the vehicle will shut down. In some instances, if the ignition key
is left in the “ON” position, this could cause the high-voltage battery
temperature to exceed 60°C (140°F); if this temperature is reached, the
thermal sensors located near the high-voltage battery will automatically
disable the high-voltage battery."

It is not uncommon for temps inside a car to go above 140 deg F during the summer in some parts of the country, though I had read somewhere that Ford tested in Phoenix so hopefully this is not going to be a problem.  Still may be a good idea to back into spots in the summer if there a chance the battery may shut down due to temps - actually that wont help since it probably would not start if the HV battery was disabled.

US made and affordable had nothing to do with my choice.

 

I just liked it better than the Prius or the Volt.

 

My last Ford was garbage. Lets hope things have changed in 20 years.

I agree with the 2nd line, but not on the 1st.  I try and support US manufacturers when they have a good product, and am happy to see that Ford has a potential winner on it's hands.  There is no shame in buying American (or making that part of the buying choice).  Being affordable put it on my list (unlike their Focus Hybrid which priced itself out of the market). 

Regarding the last point, I've had a ford before and it was a good car, even with high miles, but I think Ford needs to be more active in soliciting feedback from owners with the C-max.  It is hard to fight an impression and negative ones seem to get the most traction.  I have friends who love my car, but have negative impressions of Ford - and they have never owned one.  The C-max (which likely draws in non traditional Ford buyers) is really a chance to be aggressive in showing that quality is a major concern.  I'd like to see Ford send out an owner survey at 3 months and then 9 months on a new model like this so they can sift out any problems and then actually address the ones they can.

This is a great thread (hanks PTJones, Chinto and ByMaine for posting your data), and The mpg increase due to drag makes a lot of sense.  Looking into the grill opening, there does not seem to be a good place for the air to flow around the radiator with the slats closed.  It would be like driving around with an open shoebox mounted to the front of the car.  if a license plate frame can drop 1mpg, it would totally make sense that covering the grill could get you 4mpg.  I think I am going to scrounge around for some parts for a DIY cover.

I was poking around my C-max since it is disabled right now due to a dead battery, and noticed that the steering linkage which goes into the firewall looks pretty naked.  Is there supposed to be a boot to cover it?  I don't suspect there is a problem with it this way, but it does appear open to getting crud into the hole where it goes through the FW.

3M film but not full hood. Price is $240 for the film + 8.8% tax and $275 for installation includes bumper, part hood, fenders, mirrors, and door pockets. Most were $599 with some charging tax on the film, some all inclusive, and some $40 more for door pockets. Door edges and rear bumper ledge added more $. I didn't get full hood or door edge guards on my Jetta and had no chips at about 70k miles. So, I opted not to do it on the C-MAX. I have the Ford exterior protection package so didn't need the rear bumper ledge. I called a guy on craigslist who comes to your home and advertised $250 installation but he never responded. tax

Cool great info, thanks!  The whole package seems pretty reasonable relative to the cost of the kit.

I will double check this in my C-Max Hybrid, behavior should be the same. The cargo area outlet would make an ideal jump point for my Stanley Simple Start.

 

Neat little device there, I hope it works with a really dead battery.  I have a dead battery right now, and am gonna wait till the AM to jump it, but I noticed that the rear lift gate does not open from inside or out with the battery dead so putting the jumper in the rear storage may make getting it difficult when you actually need it.

Nother one bites the dust - went out to drive tonight and found my battery dead.  I checked the headlight selector switch and it is set on auto, and verified that lights were not on after it was parked last night - they went off after the delay - so it was something else, also no interior lights were on.  I hope this is just a bad battery and not the sign of more problems to come.  Along with a spare, a portable jump starter is going on my shopping list for road trips.

I just noticed that there is no way from inside or out to open the liftgate when the battery is dead - great design choice there.  I thought the 12v battery is in the back of the car, but it is not shown in the manual. - anyone know where it's located?

SE (basic package)

Some have claimed excellent results doing the clear bra themselves.  But, I watched my previous installation on my '09 Jetta and feel it's worth the $240 or so to have it professionally done and they will generally fix any issues free down the road (edges lifting, bubbles and so forth).  In fact, they pieced a portion in on the underside of a corner of my bumper when I scraped it on a high parking curb a year or so ago for free.  It took them about 15 minutes to cut  the 3x10" ripped section out, clean the area, apply film over the section overlapping on the existing film, and then trimming the overlap and resealing - all for free.

 

I'm scheduled to have a clear bra installed Monday. :)

Good point, I'd rather pay a local pro to install it, especially if they can do it cheaper than the kit on E-bay.  Good luck with the install, and that's a good deal too - are you going for the full front with the hood or something more, will they install the 3M film or something else?

I'm checking with vendors on CL now to get some quotes together for my C-max.